Third Coming of the Scale Lionel GG1 – Want One?

Not a chance.  I can't see that kind of money for the GG1.  Yes, it's a nice locomotive, but not that nice!  I have a couple of the JLC models as well as a couple of the Williams scale models I've upgraded to command.  I think that's more than sufficient, and the most I spent on any of them is $450 for one of the NIB JLC ones at York a number of years ago.

I purchased all six of the JLC GG1s. They were so unique for the time.

Only one of the Visionline models, 4899 Old Rivets.

If I buy any of the new ones it would be 2332 or 2340. Or maybe a special run one.

@Johnsgg1 posted:

I purchased all six of the JLC GG1s. They were so unique for the time.

Did you manage to get replacement sideframes for the silver one?  I've never seen one of those without zinc rot.

Reposts from many former threads, but do I REALLY need another GG1?  Probably, but mainly looking for 2 rail O ones going forward.  This doesn't include my Vision Line DGLE 4877, Sunset 4859, Weaver PC 4904, or Weaver Amtrak ones.  I have a few more N ones too.

My lone GG1 is the K line $99 special deal when first issued.  It got zinc rot on the wheel side pieces and Lionel side pieces would fit and installed.  No interest in any more GG1s as steam is king around here.

Charlie

I am thinking about buying one. It would likely be 2533110 (red five stripe) or 2533090 (green five stripe). I always liked the 5 stripe. I think the GG1 is iconic and historically important. That makes me want one.  It would be 110% out of place on my layout though. That hasn't bothered me before but we'll see. There's still time before I need to make a choice on what to get, if anything. I do think the spark effect is nifty.

The money isn't really a thing. Selling something else, picking up odd jobs, etc...I'll find the money. I just haven't had the must have feeling over the GG1. That's my hold up.

@Johnsgg1 and @GG1 4877 you guys have really awesome GG1 collections! Good stuff!

Parts compatibility/availability with the JLC versions?...especially the zinc rotted/-ing sideframes??...with some sort of guarantee (?) the 2024v2 Fort Knox version/parts would be rot-free...for life??

Also, any affordable, easy-to-install OEM catenary solutions to complement the  release of a fresh horde of Loewys upon the 1:48 world?

And, finally, where are the "Warbonnet" and "Daylight" versions?   (Geez, what a disappointment!)

Hey, one can still dream, ...can't one????

While I'm a PRR fan, and yeah the GG1 is dynamite, I am a hard no for two reasons. First is the pantographs. I know that if someone has tunnels, there goes the pantographs. That is unless they are high tunnels. It was noted by one of the YouTubers that he didn't realize that they would hit his tunnel since it wasn't high enough. He was right in his thinking that there should have been some way to override the pantographs from moving, some sort of neutral so you wouldn't have to worry about them bumping into anything. Let's not forget the blinking sparks, while somewhat interesting to some, nope for me.

The second reason is the price. I remember they came out the year I got back into the hobby, and I thought they were pricey then, now what. Price is always going to be one of those breaking points for all of us in one way or another.

It is a wonderful model, but I'd just as soon consult someone about getting one in some other way if that is a possibility.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Did you manage to get replacement sideframes for the silver one?  I've never seen one of those without zinc rot.

Yeah John, I did. Got the last four from Kara's. I believe that was his name. Worked there with you at Hennings.  The silver and single stripe green were zinc victims.

I'm likely to get the prototype scheme mainly because of the riveted shell. I missed the boat for the last set on those. I wish they'd re-release the 5 strip scheme on it, as it wore that scheme from I believe 35/36 to at least 41/42, when they switched fonts from Futura to a serif font. It kept that until the big strip scheme.
The offered scheme of 4800 with the geometric pinstriping I believe it wore for about a year. Even then within that scheme I believe that it switched numbers, making the time it wore the geometric scheme with that number even shorter. 

I appreciate Lionel taking the time to make later versions of the GG1 with the high vents, but that era doesn't really appeal to me. The American Railroads scheme is pretty, but I already own the traditional sized K-Line version. Likewise, I own 4800 in Conrail blue but traditional size.

With the exception of "Old Rivets," I'll spend my money on the numerous MTH, Williams, and JLC GG1s that crop up all over the place.

Unrelated, the one advantage of this issue of GG1s coming up means that hopefully there will be a return of the cab interiors for parts!

I'd consider a scale GG1 if it was numbered 4927.  This is the GG1 at the Illinois Railway Museum (renumbered HO model shown).  Among the preserved GG1s it's the closest to being made capable of operating.

@Johnsgg1 posted:

Yeah John, I did. Got the last four from Kara's. I believe that was his name. Worked there with you at Hennings.  The silver and single stripe green were zinc victims.

I forgot about Bob's sideframe selloff.

@cbq9911a posted:

I'd consider a scale GG1 if it was numbered 4927.  This is the GG1 at the Illinois Railway Museum (renumbered HO model shown).  Among the preserved GG1s it's the closest to being made capable of operating.

I've been led to believe that it's very unlikely that an existing GG1 will ever be made operational.  Apparently, virtually all the electrical components would have to be replaced, that's a very expensive job.  As near as I can tell from my reading previously, virtually everything but the car body would have to be replaced.

One thing to keep in mind for the prototypically minded modelers is that GG1 4877 first got Tuscan Red paint in 1981 and was done by New Jersey Transit.  During its PRR years it only wore the various DGLE paint schemes.  Last time Lionel offered 4877 in the wide stripe scheme in the Vision Line as pictured below.

The history behind 4877 getting its first Tuscan paint in 1981 is an interesting one.  As the last operator of the GG1 New Jersey Transit and Jersey Central Railway Historical Society partnered to restore one of the remaining 13 active GG1s into the Tuscan Red paint scheme similar to what Amtrak had done with 4935.  Originally it was planned that 4876 would receive the Tuscan Red scheme as it wore that scheme after being restored in 1953 as a result of the crash of the Federal.  However, by 1981 4876 had many modifications from its years of service.  Additional vents were added similar to the large FARR intake modification, but not as intrusive.  There were also slots cut into the sides and used a steps for servicing.  It also was not in the best mechanical condition of the remaining Gs.  As a result, 4877 which had avoided most modifications was selected in its place.  It was one of 3 GG1s still operating up until the last ride of the GG1 in October of 1983.

In a strange twist of reality mimicking the modeling world, a Tuscan 4877 was done in the 1960's in HO and imported from Japan under the Varney, Life-Like, AHM, and GHC brands.  Who would have guessed that the real one would get that color paint one day?  The Futura font is fiction, but still and interesting happenstance of events.

If I were in the market for a new GG1, I would certainly be interested in 4877 for obvious reasons as it is my forum name.  I was in the cab of it in 1982 and got to ride behind it on the last ride of the GG1.  However, it's not in the budget this year.

@cbq9911a posted:

I'd consider a scale GG1 if it was numbered 4927.  This is the GG1 at the Illinois Railway Museum (renumbered HO model shown).  Among the preserved GG1s it's the closest to being made capable of operating.

4935 in Strasburg is the best preserved of the GG1s.  It went to Strasburg direct from its Amtrak service in 1981 and had just been recently shopped prior to retirement.  It was fully operational until 2005 when the transformers finally got removed. 

To Gunrunnerjohn's point, no GG1 will operate again due to many issues.  They ended life averaging around 2.5 million miles per unit.  They were simply worn out mechanically and physically.  The frames were deteriorated, the electronics outdated, were rolling toxic waste dumps, and even the carbody had lots of dents and dings from nearly 50 years of continuous daily passenger operation.  As much as I'd love to see one operate, I'm not counting on it.

@GG1 4877 posted:

4935 in Strasburg is the best preserved of the GG1s.  It went to Strasburg direct from its Amtrak service in 1981 and had just been recently shopped prior to retirement.  It was fully operational until 2005 when the transformers finally got removed.

To Gunrunnerjohn's point, no GG1 will operate again due to many issues.  They ended life averaging around 2.5 million miles per unit.  They were simply worn out mechanically and physically.  The frames were deteriorated, the electronics outdated, were rolling toxic waste dumps, and even the carbody had lots of dents and dings from nearly 50 years of continuous daily passenger operation.  As much as I'd love to see one operate, I'm not counting on it.

If you want to see a GG1 operate again just get Rich Melvin to tell us "It ain't gonna happen." and it will be operational in about 2 years. 

@Norman R posted:

The Lionel 2024 Volume 2 catalog has a staggering array of GG1 options available for purchase. If I count correctly GG1s are available in twelve different liveries and two different sets.

The latest GG1s are selling for $1,700 retail. People carefully managing their assets may want to pass this up and buy a nice used, in-scale Lionel JLC GG1 instead.  (The zinc rot that affects some of the JLC models has been well documented on the Forum, and a motivated buyer can learn what to watch out for before buying.)

For GG1 fans in the hopeless category the Volume 2 Catalog raises the specter of overdose and bankruptcy. But there are a lot of more well-balanced O-gauge model railroaders who can maintain a healthy perspective about a purchase.

Are you thinking about buying a GG1 out of the Volume 2 catalog? Which one? Why? Are you considering buying more than one? Has anyone collected all the JLC and first release Visionline GG1s?

I think the price is just out of sight. I have a few nice scale Williams that I converted over to TMCC. More that enough and for a lot less money.

I'll stick with my House of Duddy version as it is already two-rail.

But, darn it, the pans don't emit sparks!

EDIT: I do have a Weaver gold and an MTH scale silver Congressional version in three-rail.

@GG1 4877 posted:

4935 in Strasburg is the best preserved of the GG1s.  It went to Strasburg direct from its Amtrak service in 1981 and had just been recently shopped prior to retirement.  It was fully operational until 2005 when the transformers finally got removed.

To Gunrunnerjohn's point, no GG1 will operate again due to many issues.  They ended life averaging around 2.5 million miles per unit.  They were simply worn out mechanically and physically.  The frames were deteriorated, the electronics outdated, were rolling toxic waste dumps, and even the carbody had lots of dents and dings from nearly 50 years of continuous daily passenger operation.  As much as I'd love to see one operate, I'm not counting on it.

The GG1 at Strasburg looks good, so they could use that body, just replace everything else!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The GG1 at Strasburg looks good, so they could use that body, just replace everything else!

Maybe those JLC ones are prototypical after all.  The real ones suffered from a bit of zinc rot too!

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

While I'm a PRR fan, and yeah the GG1 is dynamite, I am a hard no for two reasons. First is the pantographs. I know that if someone has tunnels, there goes the pantographs. That is unless they are high tunnels. It was noted by one of the YouTubers that he didn't realize that they would hit his tunnel since it wasn't high enough. He was right in his thinking that there should have been some way to override the pantographs from moving, some sort of neutral so you wouldn't have to worry about them bumping into anything. Let's not forget the blinking sparks, while somewhat interesting to some, nope for me.

The second reason is the price. I remember they came out the year I got back into the hobby, and I thought they were pricey then, now what. Price is always going to be one of those breaking points for all of us in one way or another.

It is a wonderful model, but I'd just as soon consult someone about getting one in some other way if that is a possibility.

The Vision GG1's have a switch to turn the Pantographs operation off.

@GG1 4877 posted:

4935 in Strasburg is the best preserved of the GG1s.  It went to Strasburg direct from its Amtrak service in 1981 and had just been recently shopped prior to retirement.  It was fully operational until 2005 when the transformers finally got removed.

To Gunrunnerjohn's point, no GG1 will operate again due to many issues.  They ended life averaging around 2.5 million miles per unit.  They were simply worn out mechanically and physically.  The frames were deteriorated, the electronics outdated, were rolling toxic waste dumps, and even the carbody had lots of dents and dings from nearly 50 years of continuous daily passenger operation.  As much as I'd love to see one operate, I'm not counting on it.

Adding on to this, I doubt Amtrak, SEPTA, Metro-North, or MARC would allow one near their rails unless it was part of the general motor pool for locomotives. Even if it was a new locomotive with a GG1 shell, I don't think it would be able to be used for excursions that often, if at all.

One interesting thing about this line-up of new GG1's is PRR #4859. To my knowledge, this may be the first scale GG1 in 3-Rail (excluding #4800) that is being offered with the Pre-War futura lettering with 5 stripes. I believe that this was the production model (welded) GG1's original paint scheme until the early 40s. MTH has offered the "feathered" 4829 before (once with the wrong color and once with the correct color,) as has Williams but with the wrong font. K-Line has offered a traditional scale version of the "5-Strip Futura" scheme. It was I think collectors club item with the ability to upgrade to TMCC.

Its great to see people’s detailed knowledge of the road numbers, colors, fonts, and graphics use on the GG1 over the span of its career. Has anyone spotted any objective, factual things in the catalog illustrations that should be brought to Lionel’s attention before production starts?

@GG1 4877 posted:

Maybe those JLC ones are prototypical after all.  The real ones suffered from a bit of zinc rot too!

Can’t be………the PennCentral used magically enhanced black paint on the trucks…….lmao

The continuous gray between the roof and pantograph hood is not prototypical to any units I've seen. They're always separated by the surrounding Tuscan red or DGLE. I've never seen this on a model either. Of course, I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I'd rather bring it up now than wait for it to become another Dreyfuss Hudson tender stripe incident.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Reposts from many former threads, but do I REALLY need another GG1?  Probably, but mainly looking for 2 rail O ones going forward.  This doesn't include my Vision Line DGLE 4877, Sunset 4859, Weaver PC 4904, or Weaver Amtrak ones.  I have a few more N ones too.

When I looked at the new Lionel catalog and all those GG1's, my first thought was of you.  And I thought, "that's just mean on Lionel's part...how is Jonathon going to handle this?"

It's both sad and pathetic that the JLC GG1s' side-frames had zinc rot. I mean, we're not talking about products made in the 1930s, but rather early 2000s. To me, it puts a damper on all the new stuff, with the troubling thought of what will deteriorate next. I keep pre-ordering, though. I just found zinc rot on one of my Railking diecast tank cars, dag gone it.

Any chance Lionel would be able to order a ***load of extra (replacement) side frames for the defective ones out there?

Would be a nice gesture for sure...

@c.sam posted:

Any chance Lionel would be able to order a ***load of extra (replacement) side frames for the defective ones out there?

Would be a nice gesture for sure...

While that is a great idea, Sam, if I remember correctly from the lengthy discussions on the JLC zinc pest issue, it was determined that the Vision Line side frames were different enough that they wouldn’t work.

I would love to have buy one of the new GG-1's that Lionel announced in their new catalog but they are just out of my price range. Very sharp looking though.

@c.sam posted:

Any chance Lionel would be able to order a ***load of extra (replacement) side frames for the defective ones out there?

Would be a nice gesture for sure...

Lionel doesn't seem to be into "nice gestures".  If they were going to address the JLC sideframe issue, I would have thought they would have done it by now.

@Apples55 posted:

While that is a great idea, Sam, if I remember correctly from the lengthy discussions on the JLC zinc pest issue, it was determined that the Vision Line side frames were different enough that they wouldn’t work.

Think I remember that comment as well Paul. Perhaps a slight modification to the new ones could make them serviceable to both models?

I had the Tuscan 5 stripe JLC model years ago gut sold it. Picked up the DGLE 5 stripe a few years ago as I didn't care for the shade of Tuscan used on the other one. Looked like a Hershey bar!  Lol.

Hey GRJ,  is it possible to replace the pantographs on the early JLC models with one from a vision G to obtain the sparking effect?  I'd like to have that feature on mine but not willing to shell out 1200-$1400 for it    :-)

@c.sam posted:

Hey GRJ,  is it possible to replace the pantographs on the early JLC models with one from a vision G to obtain the sparking effect?  I'd like to have that feature on mine but not willing to shell out 1200-$1400 for it    :-)

Not really, by the time you got it all working and integrated, it would be better to just buy the new one.

@Rob Leese posted:

When I looked at the new Lionel catalog and all those GG1's, my first thought was of you {Jonathan}.  And I thought, "that's just mean on Lionel's part...how is Jonathon going to handle this?"

Cheers Rob! That is EXACTLY what I was thinking. So far he seems to be handling it well.

@Norman R posted:

Cheers Rob! That is EXACTLY what I was thinking. So far he seems to be handling it well.

I am secretly crying in the corner.  Don't let my online comments fool you.    Budget isn't there right now though so I'm not going to sweat it too much. 

@Paul Kallus posted:

I just found zinc rot on one of my Railking diecast tank cars, dag gone it.

Can tell me which road name this happened to…the railking tank car ?

@GG1 4877 posted:

Reposts from many former threads, but do I REALLY need another GG1?  Probably, but mainly looking for 2 rail O ones going forward.  This doesn't include my Vision Line DGLE 4877, Sunset 4859, Weaver PC 4904, or Weaver Amtrak ones.  I have a few more N ones too.

I am secretly crying in the corner.  Don't let my online comments fool you.    Budget isn't there right now though so I'm not going to sweat it too much.

Jonathan

Now that is an admirable, stoic approach coming from The Dean of All Things GG1.

Is there any GG1 in the 2024 Volume 2 catalog that qualifies as being in the "must have" category if you were to find seventeen hundred dollars in a paper bag on the street?

@Norman R posted:

Now that is an admirable, stoic approach coming from The Dean of All Things GG1.

Is there any GG1 in the 2024 Volume 2 catalog that qualifies as being in the "must have" category if you were to find seventeen hundred dollars in a paper bag on the street?

I'd probably go for the Tuscan NJT 4877 given the opportunity, but the PC and Amtrak Savings Bond versions are pretty cool too with the modified high filters.  If the price were right, I'd still like to find an Amtrak one from the last run because all the Red / Blue / Silver Amtrak Gs had the same filter modification, and my Weaver does not.

The GG1 is my all-time favorite electric locomotive, and one of my favorite train locomotives of all time. Do I want any of the new GG1's that Lionel is offering in the latest catalog? Absolutely. Will I, or will I be able to get even just one? That could be a wildly different answer. Being a guy who likes both toy and model trains, it's basically crucial to me that I have examples of both semi-scale and full-scale GG1 locomotives. I currently have 5 semi-scale examples, 3 of which are older Lionel, one MTH Railking and one K-Line. I actually have been doing research in the past couple of years on the scale models made in 3-rail, and of course I've used the GG1 threads on the forum and got a lot of information, mainly from Jonathan himself. My rule when it comes to the scale prototypical side of my collection is that the item has to be properly scale, a decent amount of separately applied details, and it has to be a locomotive or rolling stock the railroads I like actually used, and not just a "close enough" situation. Even though I absolutely like the other manufacturers' versions of a scale GG1, I've read that apparently Lionel and 3rd Rail's models do the best job of representing a scale GG1 in 3-rail.

At this point it looks like Lionel basically covered nearly all the bases in terms of road names and paint schemes. I absolutely considered getting the JLC examples of the schemes that weren't done during the first Vision Line run, just to fill in any gaps, but of course I am aware of the zinc rot issues that literally plagued them. I've yet to ever upgrade any electronics in any of my newer locomotives yet; all I've done so far was just replace one PS1 board, which is no big deal. But I really would like to figure out how to do upgrades. With the Penn Central and the Silver liveries being done again, I'm actually not worried anymore about getting the JLC versions, and then having to worry about getting replacement trucks (in fact, I have a quick question: can the Vision Line trucks fit on the JLC versions, or no?).

Sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to voice some more of my opinion on the new run of Vision Line GG1's. Basically I am ecstatic about the new run, and hopefully over time I can get the Lionel models, because it seems like they are the absolute best when it comes to a 3-rail model of the GG1.

@carnerd3000 posted:

(in fact, I have a quick question: can the Vision Line trucks fit on the JLC versions, or no?).

No, the sideframes are different on the Vision Line GG1's, and do not fit the JLC models.