quote:Originally posted by RailfanRon:
I have been following this thread from the beginning and I think the average user could care less, he or she just wants it to work.
Ron
+1
|
quote:Originally posted by RailfanRon:
I have been following this thread from the beginning and I think the average user could care less, he or she just wants it to work.
Ron
quote:Originally posted by SantaFeFan:Jim, I am curious: what happens in a DCS loco when you lose contact and it continues to move? How do you stop your train from crashing? How do you blow the horn, how do you control any function? How do you get the loco back under control?quote:Originally posted by Jim D:
I guess thats why adding more antenna to an engine seems to help at our club. It's like putting your hand over the engine to make it go. I still think TMCC should be redesigned that when the engine loses signal the engine should keep moving at the same speed like DCS instead of stopping or going full speed.
Jim D.
quote:engines normally lose signal and stop in the most unfortunate inaccesible places like under bridges, in tunnels, and under large stations making retrival to get signal back a little more interesting.
quote:Originally posted by Dale Manquen:quote:engines normally lose signal and stop in the most unfortunate inaccesible places like under bridges, in tunnels, and under large stations making retrival to get signal back a little more interesting.
Why not just fix the weak-signal areas so that you don't lose control? Am I missing something here?
Maybe an option could be provided to turn this feature on or off. IE an AUX + # code when programming the engine ID.quote:Originally posted by Jim D:
On the club layout we have lots of spots were DCS has problems. You gain control of the engine when it starts to pick up the signal. We have one side of the layout that has no DCS it's 75' long. A DCS engine enters the section and continues along till it comes back to the DCS side. If there is a problem we just shut the power off. It's a lot less frustrating than having the engine stop.
Jim D
quote:Originally posted by bluelinec4:
That may be a little problem as TMCC does not operate at Scale MPH as does DCs I beleive the decision to make a TMCC loco stop when losing signal was to prevent it from taking off down the track at 18 volts in conventional. A DCS engine can be running at 10 scale miles per hour when it loses signal and continues at 10 scale MPH until another DCS command is sent to it or the track voltage is shut down. A TMCC engine traveling at the same speed as the 10 MPH of the given example would speed up if the TMCC was set to continue instead of stopping.
quote:Originally posted by HOSO&NZ:
And so it goes. G.. its hard some times. The wire in question just went from a radiator to a shield in two post.
Al
Dale, I'm with you. Ground signal radiator (aka GSR ) is my choice. Whatever Lionel called it in the beginning, they were anything but fully explanitory about the need for and where/how to install GSRs and why.
We couldn't understand why our engines were so unresponsive until coming on OGR and digesting what Dale explained. In my opinion, Dale has been the only person to be so easily understood about this GSR thing and other topics. Thank you Dale.
quote:Originally posted by chuck:quote:I am sorry Lionel, but with all due respect, how can you insist that any radio receiver will work with it's receiving antenna picking up it's signal from it's ground terminal.
Where is this coming from? Pin 5 on the command base computer port is tied to the ground prong on the wall wart transformer. The wall wart is plugged into the three prong outlet on the wall which, if the house was wired correctly, goes all the way back to the load center/fuse box where it (aka the ground wire) is tied to earth ground. I don't think I've ever heard of or seen a radio transmitter that had the output tied to earth ground and actually worked?
I give! After studying this old thread and the referenced items that this quote is part of, I am more than somewhat confused as to how it all works since the breaker panel is wired as described here by GGG. That is, the neutral and ground wires are connected in, and grounded to earth from, the panel box.
I'll give it a shot...
Just because the safety wire in your house wiring is grounded at one end at the breaker box, it does not mean that it's not an antenna over it's length at it's other end for our purpose. And as AN ANTENNA is how it functions for our train control. And so therefore the desire to call it something other than a ground plane or ground wire for how we use it.
Its all black magic.
Thanks guys. I love it when science and magic comes together!
Dale, I'm with you. Ground signal radiator (aka GSR ) is my choice. Whatever Lionel called it in the beginning, they were anything but fully explanitory about the need for and where/how to install GSRs and why.
We couldn't understand why our engines were so unresponsive until coming on OGR and digesting what Dale explained. In my opinion, Dale has been the only person to be so easily understood about this GSR thing and other topics. Thank you Dale.
We still have a lot to learn about how best to drive the TMCC signal on very large layouts. We definitely need to consider both halves of the "antenna", including the lead connected to the ground terminal of the Base (Pin 5), and the Track signal conducted through the wheels.
I am really disappointed that Lionel has not corrected Mike R.'s video with all that wrong information about sync pulses and ground planes. I thought Jon would actually do something to maintain the technical accuracy of Lionel's technical information. They just don't seem to care!
Maybe try have more pressing things to do?
"Perhaps they have more pressing things to do?"
Marty, if one (innocently or otherwise) makes a mistake that affects hundreds or thousands of people, I feel that one should show good faith by trying to correct the error once one is aware of it. To me, that would have a VERY high priority to maintain my integrity. There aren't too many things that would be more important than that!
Let's just call it "GROUND". We already have Common and Hot. That's all the average modeler needs to hear.
This equates to someone saying "Price Point"
Marty, if one (innocently or otherwise) makes a mistake that affects hundreds or thousands of people, I feel that one should show good faith by trying to correct the error once one is aware of it. To me, that would have a VERY high priority to maintain my integrity. There aren't too many things that would be more important than that!
I suppose Lionel is not unlike many other manufacturers that produce products for consumers. I.E. auto manufacturers can produce defective items and as long as they don't pose a safety risk, they issue a TSB, but don't alert the customer. If the issue pops up after the warranty and is repaired per the TSB it is still the consumers "problem" and may cost hundreds or thousands to repair . Your S.O.L, your only option is to try a different manufacturer in hopes of a more reliable product.
As is case with O guage trains choices are limited so the ball is in the manufacturers court.
It seems there are enough "disclaimers" in place for o-guage manufacturers in place that they can fall short wherever they want. The the competition has its own drawbacks so theres not always an advantage to switching.
Dale, I'm surprised Lionel hasn't asked you to come on board, or maybe you could consider a book like Barry.
I would be interested to see a discussion of these matters between yourself and JonZ.
My nomination for a name:
Der RemotenRadioisherBahnSignalKaputenFixenDinge
Just sort of rolls off the tongue doesn't it?
Unfortunately a lot of folks have already mentally tied "common" to "ground".
It's bad enough that the system was advertised as a "one wire" hookup. While technically true this blurs the actual situation that we are using two wires and effectively hides how the system works and what to look for when it doesn't.
Unfortunately "earth ground" may be the best we can do.
I see that this thread has been resurrected from a year ago. Good deal.
Back in the 70's when I was selling and repairing CB radios, the roof of my van formed a nice "GROUND PLANE" for the co-phased, dual CB antennas I had up there.
Dale, I wish you luck in this crusade. If/when you are successful, will you tackle the LASHUP problem for me?
Well good luck Dale. I imagine this is low on the priority list. Bottom line is that the "solution" doesn't need the theory to work. And as far as I know that portion of video Is correct.
I think earth ground may be a compromise. Perhaps the 3-rd rail? Wait, that's already used!
I recall in an old Reader's Digest, in the Military Humor" section a "true story".
This sailor and his shipmate were painting the foundation of something on the deck and a new Ensign walked by and said "What are you doing there sailor?". The young sailor looked up and "Painting the BRT sir." The Ensign, replied "Good job, carry on."
After the Ensign walked away the shipmate said "What's a BRT?". The other replied "Big Round Thing!"
Maybe we can call it the BGT - Big G-round Thing!
The sorta-but-not-really-just-ground thingie
Rich, Don Quixote is one of my heroes. I have lots of bent lances from jousting with windmills! That's what happens when you are an idealist. Hold your ground. Who is John Galt?
I really had high hopes that Jon Z. would straighten Mike R. out after I talked to Jon about this, and then Mike would correct the errors, but I was apparently wrong. Jon definitely knows that the video is wrong, and I hope by now Mike does too.
Maybe the terminology is wrong but the fixes generously posted by experienced TMCC operators seems to have worked well. I still can't figure out a engine powered up on a track with no TMCC "U" connected comes up in command mode? ING &Yang = CHI The perfect TMCC signal
I still can't figure out a engine powered up on a track with no TMCC "U" connected comes up in command mode
Since TMCC is a radio signal, if the command base is on and connected to some track in the room to serve as a broadcast antenna you will get TMCC signal throughout the room and any TMCC locomotive will come up in command mode. I regularly test TMCC locomotives on my work table that are alligator clipped to a spare transformer and not connected in any way to the layout. If the layout's command base is on, I can run my test locomotives in command mode at the table.
We are still having many issues at the NJHirailers club. We are going to try to build a liner amplifier to boost the signal and clean it up The amp was designed by Jim La Ferve. A club in Long Island NY built it and solved 99% of their problems. I think there was a thread here awhile ago about the amp. One of our members found it on a Yahoo web page.
Jim D.
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership