Tinplate photos 📸 and videos 📽

Arnie - as you often do, great post filled with things I have never seen or encountered.  Great stuff...thank you

Don

Arne,

The signal boxes (what we would call towers) are very nicely done. Thanks for sharing.

Tom

Here is one of my pandemic projects.  I disassembled this engine and tender years ago and primed it sometime prior to 2015.  Last year as the pandemic went on, with no train shows, and not seeing much to buy, I started on some of my projects.  This got painted and then sat the winter prior to re-assembly.  I finally got what I could get done, finished and then took it to a friend to re-assemble, as I knew I was missing parts and he could get it back together.  Picked it up today.  It is running with 3 of the Millennium Mayflower cars. 

NWL

A recent delivery.  It had wax residue on it from a previous poor cleaning, so after disassembling it and cleaning it properly, it looks much better.  This is c. 1930

NWL

Couple of new find this week ... one a cheep and cheerful Bing from the 20's or 30's

Its just so cute and cartoonish I could not resist

Obviously a very low end set , but when has that ever stopped me ... poor cheapies need lovin' too!

The second item has sparked me on a google-fu finger frenzy over the last few days as I was tossing up whether to have a bid on it or not , and all I have managed to come up with so far is the manufacturer "ZAX" is a sought after Italian maker from pre-war and post war times , but the majority of stuff post war I can find is made of wood or wood/tin/bakelite composites ... although I did find one toy car that was diecast in a large size pre-war , so obviously they had the capability at some point ?

sourced locally in Australia in an auction at a very good price ( if its real lol ) ... I really need some help with this one ! if its legit it could well be another bargain buster acquisition?

It doesnt seem likely to me that an Italian company would make a model of an "Outdated " USA Streamliner after the war , so could it possibly be from the Golden Age in the mid to late 30's?

Not in hand yet but it appears to be quite a quality cast alloy body and tin base toy with possibly bakelite or early composite plastic wheels ?

It could well be later in manufacture though , 50's on? I am really scratching the dirt for info on this one and cant make up my mind .. it seems too good to be early early , and yet old enough as well ? screws being all plain domed and rivets etc certainly would take "modern" out of the picture .

Oh should mention its quite large at 58cm or roughly 23" long

I have seen mention of the term ZAX- A.L.P.I.A.  bandied about with the wooden trains ( and they are ALL spendy! )

I have also read that ZAX was founded in Bergano Italy in 1946 , but I have seen auctions where cast cars were listed as pre-war .. most post war stuff I find is wood/composite tin/bakelite

https://www.vintageexperience....pubblicitario-cynar/  <-- hold onto your wallets folks!

Any and all help appreciated on this one !

Nice find @Fatman

Simon if you take a look in the book Collecting toy trains by Ron McCrindell you will find this Flying Yankee set. He dates it from the fifties and made in Italy by Zax.  For me it is more looking from that period than earlier, unfortunately i have never seen one.... Anyway excellent acquisition.

Love the look of the little BING loco too, very cute.

Very best, Daniel

I was asked by a friend to check this Hiawatha engine and tender, as it did not run.  I found it to be missing 4 screws, 2 which were the rear motor mount (which was directly connected to the bottom of the pendulum reverse unit) and 2 at the top of the bracket that holds the pendulum reverse unit in place.  These missing screws caused the pendulum reverse unit to be out of position and not work.  Replacing the screws to the top of the reverse unit, allowed the motor to run properly.  After solving that issue, I replaced the springs and brushes in the motor, added a new headlight, and tested the motor.  It ran fine, with the reverse unit operating properly.

I then put the motor back into the boiler and found the reverse unit was sticking.  I looked at the forward part of the motor and moved the headlight wire around, as that was in the way of the front of the pendulum and blocking its movement.

Lastly, I tested the whistle in the tender.  The armature moved fine, so I knew the large fibre gear that turns it was ok.  When I applied power to the unit, nothing.  Closer examination revealed that the springs were shot and were not even touching the wires that provided power.  New springs and brushes were installed and the whistle motor ran fine as well. 

Here is a video of it running.  Note how well the reverse unit works.

I want one

Fatman, Great find.  I note that if you look at the picture of the under portion of the train it uses the words "modello dept" in the area not covered by paint which would be "model department" in Italian so its heritage in Italy seems solid.  Really neat.  NWL - neat Flyer tank car and great work on the Hiawatha.

Best Regards

Don

Finally purchased my first standard gauge locomotive.  I've had cars going back nearly 15 years to the first and track for over 5.  Last year I finally set up the loop around the Christmas tree with a borrowed locomotive.

This photo is a repost from last Christmas.

This year, I finally got around to purchasing a locomotive.  Nothing fancy, just a #8, but nothing speaks Christmas to me quite like tinplate.  I think with all the stresses of the modern world (not that there hasn't been stress in the past, I just think we have a romanticized vision of it), a simple train around the tree is just so festive and relaxing.

I also have a lot of random tinplate in my collection that has been picked up at auction.  This is an interesting vintage Flyer item.

GG1 4877,

The 1107/1108 cars with roadnames are some of my favorites.

There are the 1914-1915 series cars with wood litho patterns, with these being a couple of examples

Missing from the above are a UP baggage and a Penn Line in blue.

In 1917, Flyer again started making road name cars, first with the 1107 passenger cars and then later with the 1108 baggage cars.  Here are some of the baggage car examples.  I believe the Santa Fe car is the most difficult baggage to find.

Penn RR in brown

Penn RR in maroon

And of course the Northwestern Line, which you already posted a photo of

NWL

Your examples are much better than mine!  Still interesting to have a bit of history.

I also have the observation.  Posed it next to a GGD conversion project I still haven't finished.  I believe this one is a Bing.

Hey GG1, a nice looking early No. 8; looks like it may have been re-wheeled. That'll look great circling the tree this year. Hope you have a great one!

PD

@pd posted:

Hey GG1, a nice looking early No. 8; looks like it may have been re-wheeled. That'll look great circling the tree this year. Hope you have a great one!

PD

You are correct.  The wheels are reproduction, but I am fine with that as I'm looking for a solid runner.  I plan on having a great Christmas and I'll post video of this train running.  Hope yours is great as well!

@Nation Wide Lines posted:

I was asked by a friend to check this Hiawatha engine and tender, as it did not run.  I found it to be missing 4 screws, 2 which were the rear motor mount (which was directly connected to the bottom of the pendulum reverse unit) and 2 at the top of the bracket that holds the pendulum reverse unit in place.  These missing screws caused the pendulum reverse unit to be out of position and not work.  Replacing the screws to the top of the reverse unit, allowed the motor to run properly.  After solving that issue, I replaced the springs and brushes in the motor, added a new headlight, and tested the motor.  It ran fine, with the reverse unit operating properly.

I then put the motor back into the boiler and found the reverse unit was sticking.  I looked at the forward part of the motor and moved the headlight wire around, as that was in the way of the front of the pendulum and blocking its movement.

Lastly, I tested the whistle in the tender.  The armature moved fine, so I knew the large fibre gear that turns it was ok.  When I applied power to the unit, nothing.  Closer examination revealed that the springs were shot and were not even touching the wires that provided power.  New springs and brushes were installed and the whistle motor ran fine as well.

Here is a video of it running.  Note how well the reverse unit works.

Nice work.  I hope I run like that when I'm 80 years old.

@Nation Wide Lines posted:

I was asked by a friend to check this Hiawatha engine and tender, as it did not run.  I found it to be missing 4 screws, 2 which were the rear motor mount (which was directly connected to the bottom of the pendulum reverse unit) and 2 at the top of the bracket that holds the pendulum reverse unit in place.  These missing screws caused the pendulum reverse unit to be out of position and not work.  Replacing the screws to the top of the reverse unit, allowed the motor to run properly.  After solving that issue, I replaced the springs and brushes in the motor, added a new headlight, and tested the motor.  It ran fine, with the reverse unit operating properly.

I then put the motor back into the boiler and found the reverse unit was sticking.  I looked at the forward part of the motor and moved the headlight wire around, as that was in the way of the front of the pendulum and blocking its movement.

Lastly, I tested the whistle in the tender.  The armature moved fine, so I knew the large fibre gear that turns it was ok.  When I applied power to the unit, nothing.  Closer examination revealed that the springs were shot and were not even touching the wires that provided power.  New springs and brushes were installed and the whistle motor ran fine as well.

Here is a video of it running.  Note how well the reverse unit works.

Beautiful locomotive and tender; glad you got it running again.

Tom

Club videos from our two day open house.

Scott Smith

If we're going to bring up the colorful Flyer 4 wheel litho baggage cars we might as well include their Hafner brothers.

American Express

Adams Express

Might as well include some un-marked cars as well

Of course they are all American Flyer 1108 cars, just unmarked.

Merry Christmas!! (Socks said to say Woof!)

Sometimes you just have to live with the dirt.

   Awhile back I purchased two #59 Lionel lamps which were complete, not only with their original main boxes but also with the boxes and their contents - two No. 40 light bulbs.

  When they arrived I took everything out, screwed in the light bulbs and looked them over.  The light bulbs were, to put it mildly - filthy. Both bulbs appeared to be frosted so I took the first bulb and gently scrubbed it with a damp cloth and mild soap.  The transformation was nothing short of spectacular.  The frosted bulb (on the left) went from dirty to diamond.

  While the bulb on the right might not look too bad in the picture - trust me - it looked a lot worse in real life....So, given the success with the first bulb, I took the second and started to carefully clean it...

  The end result is, as you can see, very clean and also very different from what it was

  It turns out at some point in time Lionel shifted from purchasing actual frosted glass light bulbs to clear glass light bulbs coated with some kind of VERY water soluble white paint.  Both bulbs came in boxes with identical markings so there was nothing to indicate there might have been a difference in the two No.40's.

  The bulb paint was so soluble that a single pass with the damp cloth stripped away a wide swath. Since that made the bulb look even worse I just went ahead and cleaned the whole thing.  It would be a simple matter to dip the clear bulb in some flat white, water soluble, latex paint but I'm going to leave it alone -  my own monument to being a bit too concerned with cleanliness.

@Robert S. Butler posted:

Sometimes you just have to live with the dirt.

   Awhile back I purchased two #59 Lionel lamps which were complete, not only with their original main boxes but also with the boxes and their contents - two No. 40 light bulbs.

  When they arrived I took everything out, screwed in the light bulbs and looked them over.  The light bulbs were, to put it mildly - filthy. Both bulbs appeared to be frosted so I took the first bulb and gently scrubbed it with a damp cloth and mild soap.  The transformation was nothing short of spectacular.  The frosted bulb (on the left) went from dirty to diamond.

  While the bulb on the right might not look too bad in the picture - trust me - it looked a lot worse in real life....So, given the success with the first bulb, I took the second and started to carefully clean it...

  The end result is, as you can see, very clean and also very different from what it was

  It turns out at some point in time Lionel shifted from purchasing actual frosted glass light bulbs to clear glass light bulbs coated with some kind of VERY water soluble white paint.  Both bulbs came in boxes with identical markings so there was nothing to indicate there might have been a difference in the two No.40's.

  The bulb paint was so soluble that a single pass with the damp cloth stripped away a wide swath. Since that made the bulb look even worse I just went ahead and cleaned the whole thing.  It would be a simple matter to dip the clear bulb in some flat white, water soluble, latex paint but I'm going to leave it alone -  my own monument to being a bit too concerned with cleanliness.

You could spray it with a glass frosting, which can be found in the window blinds section of Menards.  You will likely need a couple of coats, and would want to have the bulb in some sort of junk socket (to protect the part of the bulb that screws into a nice socket).

Very unassuming pick up this week from a cold and chilly UK

Well it tells the tale very much of a huge part of the German toy industry in the Pre WWI era ... On first glance 99% of train collectors will look at it and say " Nice Karl Bub locomotive" but it isnt?

( Correction from @Arne It was made by BUB , but had the G & C Added to the front beam for inclusion and sale by Carette )

Carette then for the next decade made bits and bobs for most of Germany's top tier toy-makers. After a time Carette realised there was far more money to be gained in making the actual toys himself , and because of his hard work and skill, he began to produce toys that outshone many of his former customers , in 1896 he travelled to the American Expo and demonstrated some of  the first electric trains seen there... As electricity was becoming less rare in the USA scientific toys such as trains became huge ... and with that introduction Carette reached the pinnacle of toy design innovating rather than copying, which set many of his toys above the crowd. But being a good businessman he still had the grace to remember his roots and still work with other firms making items for them to onsell as well

Then the First World War started rumbling , and despite being married to a German lady, he was still seen as "FRENCH" and had to go ... he fled Germany in 1916 and his company was liquidated in 1918 .. much of his tooling etc was snapped up by other manufacturers , which is why people think this little loco is a post WW1  Bub, Bing, or Issmayer ... but in reality it was made a decade earlier by a very clever man

JHZ,

What a great Christmas photo that is, of your dog watching the trains.  Should be on the front of your Christmas cards this year.

My dog goes berserk over the trains, and wants to catch and kill the locomotive.  (Thinks it is a rabbit.)  I have to lock him out of the basement before I run them, because he tries to jump up on the table.

Mannyrock

Fatman - What a great find and a super background story. Thanks for posting.

Don

Fatman,

your loco is a No 480L made by Karl Bub. Was made 1913-1924. Was only sold by Carette. Bub had made this locos with embossed name by request of Carette.

All cheaper trains in the Carette catalogs was never made by Carette, all was buyed by other manufacturer like Bub, Issmayer, Schuhmann and other.

Arne

@Arne posted:

Fatman,

your loco is a No 480L made by Karl Bub. Was made 1913-1924. Was only sold by Carette. Bub had made this locos with embossed name by request of Carette.

All cheaper trains in the Carette catalogs was never made by Carette, all was buyed by other manufacturer like Bub, Issmayer, Schuhmann and other.

Arne

Arne again your knowledge floors me , while I am piecing stuff together as I find it and hopefully getting things right , I can certainly accept correction and indeed welcome it !  I still love the fact this loco is a demonstration of the co-operation between factories at the time to provide a wide range of items ...

I can take it then that this loco IS of the earlier period as it must have been pre 1917 for Georges Carette to want the logo.

Fatman,

yes, was made before 1917.

Sometimes even the knowledge of the experts is not enough. here a car from the Carette catalogs 1911 and 1914, of which the manufacturer is still unknown. It's made too cheaply even for Issmayer.

And again news in the collection.

Bub electric loco from the 50s.

Issmayer tunnel around 1930.

Small Adolf Schuhmann coach for 28 mm gauge from the 20s.

I don´t have a Schuhmann loco in this size, here with a matching Bub loco.

Arne

Arnie - fantastic photos, thanks for posting.  I loved the Bub electric loco from the 50's and the tunnel with a zeppelin on it.

Just for fun, here is my MUCH NEWER Bub loco and train.  Likely from the 60's although I really can't say for sure but his drivers are plastic so that would say at least middle to late 50's probably later.

Here he is with his little train.

Here he shows his "Bub" logo on the front just below the boiler.

To go earlier, here is a Hornby M0 train in its initial livery, about 1930.

Best wishes to all...

Don

Back from an antique toy show last sunday, I returned at home with a little JEP set from 1931 in high voltage. Not a great model, entry level set with a very simplified steam engine, no linkage, handrails or anything, Hard to make more simple. Anyway I find a little charm of it's own to those little pieces.

Very best,  Daniel

That power supply is intriguing!  I think a very interesting collection could be made entirely of early power supply systems.

Daniel what an interesting set and the condition is just amazing considering its age.  The light bulb to change resistance and hence reduce voltage  as Palallin said, an interesting historical study in itself.   I can't imaging what Mom's of the day thought about their children playing with toys plugged directly into the 220 volt mains!!

Best wishes

Don

A few interesting news in the collection.

Only a box picture, but it´s Bing from 1898

Bing crane 9197, made 1904-1909

Karl Bub coaches 831W, made around 1910

Fandor coal car 1156, made 1935-1937 with tools from Bing

Arne

At the end of the year, i´m cleaning a couple of cars, today a few Bing observation cars.

Arne

Arnie. Quite a haul. Thanks for posting. I will keep your picture as a reference in case I spot something and can ‘t determine the mfr.  seems like there is little data on such makes as KBN, Bing, and others.
Happy holidays

Don

Dang Arne,

That's a beautiful set of coach cars, especially the smaller 4 wheelers.  They really embody the tinplate age.

Mannyrock

Far too quiet in here Folks !

Hoping everyone had a wonderful Xmas and that 2022 brings you much joy and happiness ( its a tad overdue I think?)

Been busy squirreling away some new finds with the awesome help of a few friends far and wide

A little Hornby Nord , Quite a cutie , sadly missing his other side wheel splasher ( which will be hard to find I think , he might have to do with something else for a while )

Coming with him is some nice little wagons .. A Nord Brakemans and a PLM Tarpaulin wagon

Also coming for a holiday in the sunny South are a bevvy of German beauties

A nice little post war HWN with brake and reversing

Some HWN freight and Passenger

Banana and Baggage wagons

Some lovely DSG Coaches in very good condition!

And a gaggle of assorted Bub !

But the stand out little beauty of the bunch is a Konrad Dressler Kranwagen ( I love a good Kran! )

I hadn't seen this set up before , but the actual Crane reminded me of something I had seen before on an over track accessory pillar crane , It looks to be the same unit indeed , but here it is on an actual  KD Chassis for track use

One handle for rotation of the whole crane cab , the other for in and out with the crane line ... Ima little in love

( picture below borrowed from our friends at cuccioloazzurro.com all rights to them )

Same same cab crane !

@Fatman posted:

A little Hornby Nord , Quite a cutie , sadly missing his other side wheel splasher ( which will be hard to find I think , he might have to do with something else for a while )

Coming with him is some nice little wagons .. A Nord Brakemans and a PLM Tarpaulin wagon

Hello Simon, sad to see this little Hornby without her right side splasher,   looking in the spare parts department and .... voila .... Any interest ???? Not new but it can be ship down under very easyly....

All my best wishes,   Daniel

Daniel you are a living Treasure !!!!

I was actually going to email you after the New Year ( to give you some peace over the holidays lol ) asking if you could look in your spares or keep an eye out for me for one !

I would most definitely be interested and thank you so much!

Just proves why @FRENCHTRAINS are best !

( actually he will fit in perfectly as the rest of the loco is no stunner ... its Period AND Patina correct ! )

I re-wheeled my 3198 engine that is with my 1930 Man-o-War set.  It runs like a thoroughbred!  It looks ready for the Derby!

NWL

What train is on the inner track?

Thanks

Charlie

@CPC posted:

What train is on the inner track?

Thanks

Charlie

The inner track is the American Flyer 1938 Hudson streamline set

NWL

Fatman, what a great find.  The HWN engine and cars is really beautiful.  The KD crane wagon is also rather neat.  Did you notice on the end of the crane cab was stamped "Made is US zone Germany" over the KD trademark.  That would date the toy from 1948-1955 although Arnie has mentioned that toy makers were sometimes slow to remove the "zone" stamp.  Beautiful cars/ engines for sure.

Well I thought I would start off the New Year, 2022 with something about one CENTURY old (1922-25) just for fun.  These are the Lionel # 603 Pullman and #604 Observation car.  Orange body and wood grained doors and trim date these cars from 1922 -1925 (IAW Greenbergs reference on Lionel Trains Vol 1).  They have, what I find most interesting, Type 1s "latch / combination" couplers.  These were made so that the newer latch coupler cars could be coupled up but the older tab/slot cars could still be attached.

I found these in an Antique Mall in or near Springfield Ohio.  It was an enormous place but mostly held furniture (My wife's passion is turn of the century oak much of which we can no longer afford but still love to admire) .  These cars were about the only toy / train items I could see and were stuck in the back of a rather dusty display cabinet.  After a rather long search for some staff member with a key to that cabinet, they were mine!! They have what Fatman has labeled "Patina" which I like, it shows sometime in the distant past, some young person really played with them to great joy I expect.

Here is the #603 Pullman.  Note that both these cars were illuminated which would have made them a premium offering in the day.  The lamps on the inside pick up power from center rail contact rollers between the wheels of one of the trucks.  With a proper bulb, they still work.

Here is the #604 Observation Car.

The observation railing on the rear platform.  Yes I apologize for the accumulation of "patina" (i.e. dust) in the corners.

Here is what I think to be an interesting period detail.  The so called "latch combination" couplers.  Note the traditional latch coupler which was just beginning to be put onto cars in the 1920's plus the ability to use the older tab/slot type couplers by using the piece that extended outward from the latch.

Well here is wishing everyone a happy and HEALTHY new year!!

Don

Howdy Folks!

I trust the New Year is treating us all as good as it can .... I was kinda happy to see the end of 2021 and full of hope for 2022 to finally turn the corner , well its only 8 days in ... and here's hoping for a really good 2023 LOL!!!

Its funny how life throws you curveballs .. it wasn't long ago I finally completed my 5 year search for a set of tracks to go with some pre-war technofix locomotives I had ... it didn't matter that they were in Spain ( of all places) and due to Covid and airplane interruptions would have to come to me via Dutchboy in Holland as there were NO freight flights whatsoever from Spain to Australia for literally months! ... I think it was over six months before they finally arrived to me here in my little island hideaway

That set of track were the only set I ever saw in those 5 years ... and bugger me dead if one of my U-Beaut searches on ePay didn't throw me up another one this weekend ! Seller had no clue even tho it was complete with locomotive as well!

So.... well... It's mine now .......  I didn't even mind paying ePays extortionate GSP shipping .....mainly because the final price was low low lowww! (a "mere" 22£ " ... but by the time everyone had a piece of me it was just under 100AUD all up )

1938 Technofix Rangierenbahn  ...

Interesting little fellows ... the track is straight and the loco trundles back and forth controlled by little raised centre track tabs at each end which slams the transmission gear into fwd or rev .  Seen here on the moveable axle with the tabs Simple but really effective , no fancy trolley electrics required here folks !

Naturally that's NOT an O Gauge offering , so I better sweeten the post with a marvelous offering from a mate of mine in Queensland who is letting me be the next custodians of some super early Hornby ...

Two ML Carriages from 1921 ( the year AFTER Hornby started making trains , you don't get much earlier )  These are thought to be "Transitional " carriages using bases from the very first design with the chassis having new holes drilled in to accommodate the slightly changed 1921 litho sides ... Super Stoked to be given the chance to own these

@Fatman posted:

...1938 Technofix Rangierenbahn  ...

Interesting little fellows ... the track is straight and the loco trundles back and forth controlled by little raised centre track tabs at each end which slams the transmission gear into fwd or rev .  Seen here on the moveable axle with the tabs Simple but really effective , no fancy trolley electrics required here folks !

...

Dear Mr. Fatman,

Congrats on yet another obscure find. 

As a child (early 1960s), I had a cheap tinplate windup train that was somewhat similar.  It looked European - was probably German but possibly made in Japan.  Had a lithographed track that folded in thirds - single track, passing siding, and another offsetting single track.  Two freight cars and a windup loco.  The loco would move toward one car, couple to it, reverse direction, drop it on the passing siding, pick up the second car, reverse and move it to the other end, drop it off and continue repeating this operation until it needed rewinding.  It's lost to the sands of time, but I've been looking for one at meets for years without any luck.

My question for you:  What are the most effective keywords to use when searching for such a train on an auction site?   

Today we are running a c. 1930 Montgomery Ward uncataloged American Flyer set with 3195 engine, Hancock tender, and Illini cars.

The engine last ran in the late 1990s and has been in a box or on a shelf ever since.  I had the engine re-wheeled by someone else in the late 90s and it was sub-par work.  Problem was a replaced axle that had sub-par splines, which resulted in the wheels slipping on the axle and super-glue being applied to try and get the wheels to not slip.  I replaced the axle with no splines and the 2 drive wheels.  I hate sub-par work, but when I first got into prewar Flyer, I did not do my own repairs.  I quickly realized it was too expensive to have others do the work for me and began doing my own repairs.

@Mallard4468  I can go one better and give you the actual names of some of those sets ... Having collected a few myself . You are right they could be German, Japanese, or more commonly today Hungarian/Czech manufacture even ...

Going by your description what you are looking for is ... a Technofix set which comes in different layouts etc but most likely is set No.241 ( also called the Technofix Nova 241 Shunting-train ) made between 1950 and 59 !

They also produced the set under the no 289 as Rangierbahn

( I bolded search terms which should find you one ) add in things like tin, wind up, or clockwork to further narrow it if needed.

Ignore the valuation in the video , he's an Italian collector and they pay a LOT for tin toys lol ... you should easily pick one up for much less .

I have this set in my collection too !

There are numerable variations in the theme as I hinted above , other fun sets are clockwork examples from

Tolato Mozdony

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This alone in the search bar of ePay will yield you several results most times ... these are far more common than technofix originals)

(Eastern European manufacturer)

Which is a straight rip off of technofix ( I also have this one)

Differing variants used the same principle to deliver loads

RAKODO VONAT

( Also East Europe)

Also from my collection

This one carries little tin logs on a trolley behind the vehicle and loads and unloads then to the platform going back and forth .

From the same time period you also had wonderful battery operated things like the set below from Alps Japan.

This is my set ... but the video is from Fred ! (scnf231e)

Technofix also produced three dimensional sets such as the Coal Loader

For an excellent look at all of technofix's products with a photo and factory number as reference I recommend

http://gremli.com/

( site is German but easily navigable )

@Fatman posted:

@Mallard4468  I can go one better and give you the actual names of some of those sets ... Having collected a few myself . You are right they could be German, Japanese, or more commonly today Hungarian/Czech manufacture even ...

Going by your description what you are looking for is ... a Technofix set which comes in different layouts etc but most likely is set No.241 ( also called the Technofix Nova 241 Shunting-train ) made between 1950 and 59 !

They also produced the set under the no 289 as Rangierbahn

( I bolded search terms which should find you one ) add in things like tin, wind up, or clockwork to further narrow it if needed.

...

I have this set in my collection too !

There are numerable variations in the theme as I hinted above , other fun sets are clockwork examples from

Tolato Mozdony

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This alone in the search bar of ePay will yield you several results most times ... these are far more common than technofix originals)

(Eastern European manufacturer)

Which is a straight rip off of technofix ( I also have this one)

Differing variants used the same principle to deliver loads

RAKODO VONAT

( Also East Europe)

...

Also from my collection

...

This one carries little tin logs on a trolley behind the vehicle and loads and unloads then to the platform going back and forth .

From the same time period you also had wonderful battery operated things like the set below from Alps Japan.

This is my set ... but the video is from Fred ! (scnf231e)

...

Technofix also produced three dimensional sets such as the Coal Loader

...

For an excellent look at all of technofix's products with a photo and factory number as reference I recommend

http://gremli.com/

( site is German but easily navigable )

Many thanks!   When asking about them at meets, I've always struggled for the most descriptive words; since they're not in the wheelhouse for most collectors, I've gotten a lot of dumb looks.

I removed most of the pics and videos from the re-post, but left two of them.  I'm fairly sure that the first pic (blue steamer with red and white boxcars) is the same as what I had back in the day.  The video of Tolato Mozdony shows the track configuration I had, although the box does not look familiar (but then again, I can barely remember what I had for breakfast yesterday).

Now the searching begins.

@Mallard4468 , It is totally possible that Technofix in the day had a bulk order from a chain store in the US and might have had different box art than depicted in the video .... the blue steamer rake I showed IS an actual technofix one from the right period that you explained , so pretty sure its a " Technofix  Nr.289 shunting train " I just popped that exact phrase into google and it returned encouraging results for me so its pretty specific ... as to ePay , currently there is only one set on there in the US , and its wrong! lol

It has a track ( in poor condition) the loco ( again not so wonderful) and instead of the two carriages is packaged with two other little technofix trolleys , so totally not usable or correct ..  they do turn up pretty regularly ... there is currently a Mozdony at a very friendly price listed ...if you have an email in your profile I will send you the link

(edit .. sent ! check your hotmail ! )

A video of my Lionel 100 trolley…

                                                  Trainfam

Got this ugly duck on its way hopefully...

When would this have been made?

Hi Dennis,

Nice little ugly duck, and with some TLC it may look fine. A Marklin Queen Mary for the British market, made 1919-1925. You will have to find a three axles tender to match with.  I think the tank car is Krauss-Fandor but not totally sure, Arne will have more knowledge than me about it.

All my best wishes, Daniel

Well I have this little tender I could stick with it for now. I think it is a Bing though.

Yup, it's a Fandor tank car...and now that you have one you will surely want to have the rest.

For example:

...and, of course, there are still more

Lovely Ugly Duck indeed!  @Dennis Holler

I think we would all love a duckling like that !

Speaking of Ugly Ducklings ... yesterday I scored a couple , one is just for the heck of it , the other was a "Can't believe my eyes " moment ... Both were locally found here in Australia .

"Just for the Heck of it "

An Orobr floor train ... missing his funnel and a little sad but I couldnt let him sit there ...

( Bic lighter for scale )

( Man I collect some crap don't I ? lol! )

and now to the ...

"Can't believe my eyes " selection ... I almost fell over when I saw this listed

Oh God its rough ... its been abused , look at the "Patina" ... but how in the **** does such a rare little piece end up all the way here ... Seller was just your average Joe, not a train fellow ... but somehow he came across the loco for a Karl Bub Circus train .. the Pre-war variety ... and these just are rare in any condition , I certainly have only seen a couple of sets for sale and they command a price ... if it was super lovely ( and I could not afford it ) it would look like this

Michael Bowes in his book "Issmayer and Bub Trains ( The Secret History)" postulates that this set was made for Bub by Issmayer .

This is a set that was never designed to outlive the children who owned them , cheap cheerful , and at the time marketed solely for kids , which was unusual .. highly colored great graphics and animated with figures in both the loco and the carriages moved by linkages as it trundled around the track .. a true novelty set in rather serious times . This was not a staple of production , but rather a whim and only marketed for a year or two period . I would suspect it was made in the hundreds rather than tens of thousands? ... That thought is postulation on my behalf but it was marketed by Moses Kohnstam in their 1928-30 catalogue .

The locomotive evolved into the famous "Wassamatter " loco , where the drivers head popped out sporadically as the train chuffed along

Two questions arise ... "How the Heck did this get here" ... and " OMG this means SOMEWHERE in Australia .. there might well be two carriages sitting somewhere ! " .... Mission Accepted!

The rarest part of the Bub Cirkus train is the tender, the most of the trains missing them.

At some point in the future I will probably have the complete train.

Arne

That's awesome @Arne I have only seen the tender in a grainy scan of the Moses K catalogue !

( edit .. as an aside I contacted the fellow who sold this to me again today asking on the back story as to how he got it ... he is a second hand dealer and was called out to the home of an old chappie who was moving into an old folks home  , his Grandchildren were clearing out "His Stuff" some of which was brought out by the family when they emigrated in the late 1930's ... apparently the old chap , who he estimated to be in his late 70's early 80's 4 or five years ago, turned up and was most irate his kids were selling his stuff and demanded they put it back ! The dealer naturally was sympathetic to the old fellow , and cancelled the transactions he had made and got the money back off the kids! In gratitude the old fellow agreed to sell him this train and another old Hornby as an offering so he didn't waste his time .. only for a few $'s apparently ... SO it would appear this loco was possibly this mans fathers or an older brothers? as he doesn't seem quite old enough to be the original owner , but it was in the same family here in Australia and in Germany all its life it would appear... Oh and no carriages sigh... who knows where they are now  )

Fatman:  What an incredible find.  I personally have only ever seen pictures of this set.  Thanks for posting.

P.S. I have the same "Shutling Set" from ALPS that you pictured in your post above and have all the pieces but no box.  Thanks to the video I can now put it together properly !!

Don

Spent this AM servicing a few prewar motors, the Flyer 1096 and a pair of Ives 3251's:

Long stories on each, but the 1096 (top) is a family heirloom, one that has likely not seen track-time in more than 80 years. A bit of clock oil along with a judicious squirt of control-contact lubricant/cleaner got it running, albeit quite roughly. Anyone know how to crack one of these open for a thorough cleaning? No screws in sight, and I hate to think bending tabs to remove the shell is required.

PD

@pd posted:

Spent this AM servicing a few prewar motors, the Flyer 1096 and a pair of Ives 3251's:

Long stories on each, but the 1096 (top) is a family heirloom, one that has likely not seen track-time in more than 80 years. A bit of clock oil along with a judicious squirt of control-contact lubricant/cleaner got it running, albeit quite roughly. Anyone know how to crack one of these open for a thorough cleaning? No screws in sight, and I hate to think bending tabs to remove the shell is required.

PD

Sadly, bending the tabs to remove the shell is the only way to do it.  The tabs will likely handle 1 removal/reinstallation only, so be careful and make sure you service it properly, while having the shell off.  You should be installing new springs and brushes and repairing any wiring that needs it, as well as re-wheeling if needed.

NWL

Ugh, my worst nightmare. The tabs here look like they may have been bent once before. This, combined with a bit of corrosion, makes for a risky proposition. The wheels look good, but seeing up to the commutator and brushes without removing the body is tough. At some point we’ll give it a shot. Thanks for the info.

A King and a Queen, a Marklin and a Bing...

1912 Bing King George V

1920 ish Marklin 4 volt electric Queen Mary

Both made for the British market.

I've had the King for a while and he is in pretty good shape.  The Queen just showed up on my doorstep looking a little worn out

Will have to see if I can revive the little 4 Volt motor or not. I didn't get a tender with the Queen so I had to pose her with a loose sort of matching tender I had.  Not sure if it is a Bing or Fandor or what but it actually fits pretty well.

Well I encountered something fairly unusual recently ( I hate to use the word "rare" with Marx)...concerning the metal FM diesels that Marx produced in the middle 50's and up until about 1962 with some of the models.  There were three RR selected for small lithographed FM diesels, Kansas City Southern (KCS), Seaboard, and Monon.  Marx made both electric and wind up A units for all these RR over different time periods. They all started with A units in or around 1955.  However with all 3 Marx produced B units lithographed to match the A units.  These were very much more scarce, in fact IAW an article titled "spotlight on Marx Diesels from Fairbanks Morse" in the Nov 2021 issue of "Classic Toy Trains" the Seaboard B unit is the most scarce piece of the series.  Well I did not find a Seaboard B however I did recently find a Monon B unit, the 4 wheel variety (in Monon and KCS 8 wheel B units were also made), however ANY B unit is scarce and was only made for a portion of the run of the A units.  In Monon the A units were made 1955-56 and 1958-59 however the B unit was only made in 1958-59.  Given that the B units had no power, no lights, no smoke, no noise and had to be paired with an A unit to pull a train, you can see why mom and pop might have hesitated to fork over the funds for one.  Anyway it makes the B units tough to find.

Here from 1958-59 is the Marx metal lithographed FM B Unit.  This matches the powered and unpowered A units in livery.

This shows the end design

Here after considerable period of searching is my Monon A-B-A FM diesel locomotive.  This one is electric although they made the locomotive in wind up as well.  The only power was ever in the A units, the B units never had power of any type.

Here is the handsome A-B-A again getting ready to leave the depot on a caboose run.  The caboose is also Monon although not the matching tin lithographed caboose made for this set which remains a "search item".

Best wishes for a great weekend

Don

OK Don, Marx B units it is - Here's the KCS version. If I remember correctly Steve Eastman has the Seaboard diesels with a B unit...maybe he'll drop by and show us the Seaboard version.

Robert thanks for showing the KCS version. If Steve has the Seaboard unit I hope he shows it. IAW the Classic Toy Trains article it’s the most scarce Marx FM piece.
Don

Here is my A-B-A.

Steve

@pd posted:

Spent this AM servicing a few prewar motors, the Flyer 1096 and a pair of Ives 3251's:

Long stories on each, but the 1096 (top) is a family heirloom, one that has likely not seen track-time in more than 80 years. A bit of clock oil along with a judicious squirt of control-contact lubricant/cleaner got it running, albeit quite roughly. Anyone know how to crack one of these open for a thorough cleaning? No screws in sight, and I hate to think bending tabs to remove the shell is required.

PD

I I I just wanted to share some of our pre-war fun on display this year. It kind of follows your great post. 😎

@WRW posted:

I I I just wanted to share some of our pre-war fun on display this year. It kind of follows your great post. 😎

Very sharp. One of these days I’ll find me a nice Lionel 8.

@Don McErlean posted:

Robert thanks for showing the KCS version. If Steve has the Seaboard unit I hope he shows it. IAW the Classic Toy Trains article it’s the most scarce Marx FM piece.
Don

Just curious as to why Marx chose three less-well-known roadnames.  Any theories on this? 

No complaints, as they're all different,  very colorful, and I'm a fan of the Monon.

Mallard4468 - No hard evidence, but Marx like both Lionel and Flyer was throughout their history always trying to broaden their appeal to buyers outside of the NY metropolitan area or the east coast.  To me that might explain the selection of Monon and KCS but not Seaboard of course.  The other, more simple explanation, concerns the toys themselves.  They had no attempt at scale or detail, were way under size, and clearly designed as TOYS not model RR items.  Thus they were designed to appeal to Mom's and Grandma's (all these companies knew the ladies mostly actually bought most of the toys in that era) and so bright, colorful, liveries attracted attention.  The fact that these were really designed as toys, makes them somewhat more difficult to find.  They were cheap, played with HARD, and easily disposable.  Thus today they can be somewhat scarce.

Steve "Papa" Eastman - Thanks for showing the Seaboard and its B unit.  Really appreciate the posting.  As all us collectors say..."someday" !

Don

pd - the method I use when dealing with tabs is to carefully straighten them, remove the shell - do whatever maintenance is necessary and before putting the shell back on, take parallel flat nose pliers and really flatten the tabs in the vertical position. Then just slip the shell back on and, again using the parallel flat nose pliers, very slightly bend in the tabs on one side only.  I've found this gives a snug fit and it allows you to remove the shell in the future without having to do anything to the tabs.

  Another possibility - I've never tried this but somewhere I read about someone doing the same thing except instead of the slight bend they just took a small cotton swab and applied a dab of Loctite to the area where the tab pressed against the frame.  This was supposed to hold everything in position and, of course, that small Loctite seal could be easily broken the next time you needed to remove the superstructure.

I saw something a little different this morning.  How about some live steam with your tinplate!?

This weekend's project was re-wheeling and servicing the 3195 engine in my American Flyer 1930 Iron Horse set.  I have owned this set for approximately 10 years and it has been a non-running shelf queen until now. 

NWL

Thanks to help from @Fatman, I was able to acquire a Tolato Mozdony wind-up train.  Here's a pic...

Doesn't stay on the track too well, but it didn't break the bank.

@Robert S. Butler posted:

pd - the method I use when dealing with tabs is to carefully straighten them, remove the shell - do whatever maintenance is necessary and before putting the shell back on, take parallel flat nose pliers and really flatten the tabs in the vertical position. Then just slip the shell back on and, again using the parallel flat nose pliers, very slightly bend in the tabs on one side only.  I've found this gives a snug fit and it allows you to remove the shell in the future without having to do anything to the tabs.

  Another possibility - I've never tried this but somewhere I read about someone doing the same thing except instead of the slight bend they just took a small cotton swab and applied a dab of Loctite to the area where the tab pressed against the frame.  This was supposed to hold everything in position and, of course, that small Loctite seal could be easily broken the next time you needed to remove the superstructure.

Thanks for that, Robert. I’ve disassembled/reassembled numerous Lionel prewar freights and rarely had a problem. The one instance of broken tabs occurred when disassembling a Lionel 653. I repaired that using some Loctite GO2 on what was left of the tabs.

Other than a 3018 tank car, I’ve not taken apart any Flyer equipment. That came apart and went back together pretty well, but the 1096 looks a bit more fragile. If I can get the tabs bent straight, then I’ll feel pretty good about getting it back together later. The suggestion for a glob of Loctite to hold things in place rather than bending the tabs over seems a good one.

@Mallard4468 posted:

Doesn't stay on the track too well, but it didn't break the bank.

I think the Hungarians call that "Value adding "

Well I have quite a long post for today but I hope everyone will enjoy it.  While working on an effort to inventory some of my collection, I have been going through some storage boxes that have sat unlooked at since we moved to Texas some 15 years ago.  What I found, according to a note I left in the box, was something that I purchased when I was first starting to collect in Dayton, Ohio from a train show in the late 70's.  So this item has been moved around the country waiting to be "discovered" again for some 45-50 years!!  Anyway I hope you will enjoy this.

This is the outer or set box...it never had a locomotive or tender while I had it, likely missing from the set or perhaps it was not part of the set when purchased new.  Note that the label reads "A.C.Gilbert Company, New Haven, Conn" so it post dates Gilbert's acquisition of American Flyer in February 1938 and the move of train production from Chicago to New Haven.

Inside the outer carton, are the component boxes.  Still nearly fully intact they contain the individual cars that made up the set.  These cartons bear the notation..." B750 Copyright 1938 by the A.C. Gilbert Co.  A..C. Gilbert, New Haven, Conn"

The front of the component box.

The side of the component box

The ends of the component boxes, clearly stamped "3171 Pullman" and "3172 Obs".  Note the "R" designation on the box.  IAW Greenberg's Guide to "American Flyer Prewar O gauge" by Alan R. Schuweiler, Kalmbach Publishing Co, 1997 these 8 1/2 inch cars were offered 1930-33; 1934;1936-38 in various colors and configurations and this configuration, which you shall see,  which has the Type XII trucks and Type X coupler was listed as #3171R in the catalog but not on the car (which in fact carries no number).

Note by an unknown individual on the bottom of one of the component boxes, perhaps by the original dealer, maybe relating to the "new for 1938" Type X coupler but this reads (written in cursive, with a pencil) ... "Special Coupler".

Here are the cars, # 3171 Pullmans and a #3172 Observation

A close up of the Pullman.  Identifying and dating information for both the Pullman and the Observation are Color (Red over Red), Wording of the Name plates. (American Flyer Lines), position of the nameplates (over the windows and under the windows to the left and right), Type XII trucks and Type X couplers.  This combination of characteristics dates these cars uniquely from 1938.

The matching observation

Here is something I find rather amazing.  These cars are all illuminated, taking power individually from the track.  But look at the undersides of the cars, they appear almost unused.  There is some slight wear on the one pick up but there is not obvious wear any where else on the underside.

Well that was a long story and I hope you enjoyed it.  Now I have to find out what locomotive pulled this set and then find that!!  Likely a long process

Best wishes for a great weekend

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

Well I have quite a long post for today but I hope everyone will enjoy it.  While working on an effort to inventory some of my collection, I have been going through some storage boxes that have sat unlooked at since we moved to Texas some 15 years ago.  What I found, according to a note I left in the box, was something that I purchased when I was first starting to collect in Dayton, Ohio from a train show in the late 70's.  So this item has been moved around the country waiting to be "discovered" again for some 45-50 years!!  Anyway I hope you will enjoy this.

This is the outer or set box...it never had a locomotive or tender while I had it, likely missing from the set or perhaps it was not part of the set when purchased new.  Note that the label reads "A.C.Gilbert Company, New Haven, Conn" so it post dates Gilbert's acquisition of American Flyer in February 1938 and the move of train production from Chicago to New Haven.

Inside the outer carton, are the component boxes.  Still nearly fully intact they contain the individual cars that made up the set.  These cartons bear the notation..." B750 Copyright 1938 by the A.C. Gilbert Co.  A..C. Gilbert, New Haven, Conn"

The front of the component box.

The side of the component box

The ends of the component boxes, clearly stamped "3171 Pullman" and "3172 Obs".  Note the "R" designation on the box.  IAW Greenberg's Guide to "American Flyer Prewar O gauge" by Alan R. Schuweiler, Kalmbach Publishing Co, 1997 these 8 1/2 inch cars were offered 1930-33; 1934;1936-38 in various colors and configurations and this configuration, which you shall see,  which has the Type XII trucks and Type X coupler was listed as #3171R in the catalog but not on the car (which in fact carries no number).

Note by an unknown individual on the bottom of one of the component boxes, perhaps by the original dealer, maybe relating to the "new for 1938" Type X coupler but this reads (written in cursive, with a pencil) ... "Special Coupler".

Here are the cars, # 3171 Pullmans and a #3172 Observation

A close up of the Pullman.  Identifying and dating information for both the Pullman and the Observation are Color (Red over Red), Wording of the Name plates. (American Flyer Lines), position of the nameplates (over the windows and under the windows to the left and right), Type XII trucks and Type X couplers.  This combination of characteristics dates these cars uniquely from 1938.

The matching observation

Here is something I find rather amazing.  These cars are all illuminated, taking power individually from the track.  But look at the undersides of the cars, they appear almost unused.  There is some slight wear on the one pick up but there is not obvious wear any where else on the underside.

Well that was a long story and I hope you enjoyed it.  Now I have to find out what locomotive pulled this set and then find that!!  Likely a long process

Best wishes for a great weekend

Don

Outstanding!!!! Thank you for sharing your “new” find at home. 😎

    Based on the 1938 catalog my guess would be this engine and set

  The car numbers match and the couplers you have are 1938 issue - the only problem is the catalog insists the cars are two tone red enamel.

I had that set and the 2-6-4 loco is the correct loco and the cars were one red color, not two tone.

Roland

@Don McErlean posted:

Well I have quite a long post for today but I hope everyone will enjoy it.  While working on an effort to inventory some of my collection, I have been going through some storage boxes that have sat unlooked at since we moved to Texas some 15 years ago.  What I found, according to a note I left in the box, was something that I purchased when I was first starting to collect in Dayton, Ohio from a train show in the late 70's.  So this item has been moved around the country waiting to be "discovered" again for some 45-50 years!!  Anyway I hope you will enjoy this.

This is the outer or set box...it never had a locomotive or tender while I had it, likely missing from the set or perhaps it was not part of the set when purchased new.  Note that the label reads "A.C.Gilbert Company, New Haven, Conn" so it post dates Gilbert's acquisition of American Flyer in February 1938 and the move of train production from Chicago to New Haven.

Well that was a long story and I hope you enjoyed it.  Now I have to find out what locomotive pulled this set and then find that!!  Likely a long process

Best wishes for a great weekend

Don

Don,

Your setbox is clearly stamped 9 for Set 9 of 1938.  Set 9 featured a 4615-6 engine, which would be the 2-6-4 pacific type engine similar to the 1939 425 engine, but with decal identification instead of the rubber stamped numbers.  See below:

NWL - THANK YOU.  I saw the "9" on the box but did not know what it stood for.  Now I have a target for which to "hunt".  Do you think that the engine and tender might have been originally packed in the same box?  Perhaps with only 2 Pullman's and an Obs?

Don

Robert S. Butler :  Schuweiler's book lists a variation with 2 tone red enamel but he lists this ONLY for the Pullmans and not the Observation.  No other explanation.  Given that Flyer was in the process of moving to S scale even though they were maintaining O gauge at this time its possible that the color scheme varied even perhaps to using available stock.  Who knows?  

Thank you for the catalog picture, that helps.  I will now try and find the engine / tender...

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

NWL - THANK YOU.  I saw the "9" on the box but did not know what it stood for.  Now I have a target for which to "hunt".  Do you think that the engine and tender might have been originally packed in the same box?  Perhaps with only 2 Pullman's and an Obs?

Don

Don,

I would think the catalog artwork and description of having 3 coaches and 1 observation would be correct, especially since you have 4 matching cars with the setbox.  I would suspect that the engine and tender would have had individual boxes, similar to the car boxes and everything would have fit into the setbox that you have.

NWL

Roland: Saw your post too late to include your information in the response above.  Certainly makes me feel more comfortable that my set 9 does have the correct cars - at least for some production.  Again thanks for the information on the engine. 

Don

NWL...Yes I fully agree.  The catalog picture with 3 Pullmans and the Observation is strong evidence that the set as I have it is correct.  I agree that the engine and tender were likely packed in similar component boxes to the cars and included in the same outer "set" box.  Makes sense.

Don

Since we have been talking about the red cars and the two-tone versus the single color cars, I thought I should post these cars, which are two-tone red.  I have a set of 3 coaches and 1 observation.  They are 3176 and 3177 cars, which are unlighted.  They also have the "cheap" trucks for lack of a better description, as the trucks are plain, with no journal boxes, and were often used on the champion freight cars and other cheaper cars like the blue streak cars.  I am guessing the cars date to 1937.

The difference between the two tones of the paint is relatively minor, but it is there.  I am sure that Don's single-tone cars are correct, as the condition of the cars, original decals, original boxes/setbox and the fact that he mentions having the set for 45 years or more, point to the originality of the set.

NWL

NWL - I agree it is the same set.  What I can't believe is I missed the number 9 - oh well, mystery solved, and now Don knows what to chase.

Robert / NWL :  Thank you both for driving this "one tone/two tone" discussion to a conclusion.  You are right...now I know what engine to chase, thanks again.  By the way, NWL, I did look up the 3176 / 3177 cars in Schuweiler's book and he does describe the exact configuration you pictured.  His date for those cars would seem to be 1937 as you have mentioned.  These cars were only available (according to him) in 1931 & 1937 and the configuration you showed is the last one he lists.

Great discussion All

Don

I took a closer look at the set box and realized that it has a 5 stamped on it.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

Greg @Greg J. Turinetti  :  You clearly have the 1938 set 5 which compared with my  set 9 has 1 fewer Pullman car and a different (apparently smaller) engine.  Of course I have no engine at the moment but going by what NWL and Robert have posted my proper engine would  be a 2-6-4 as opposed to your 2-4-2.  The catalog reads with a description of the 3171 Pullmans as 8 1/4 inches although they are often called 8 1/2 inch cars.  You have the single tone red like mine and the "automatic" couplers.  Those steel "curl a q's"  could couple automatically but not uncouple I don't believe.  The force of the cars backing into each other forced the coupler to move to the side and then spring back to couple.   The "R" on the box end designates those new for 1938 couplers.  Your cars appear identical to mine.  It is interesting to note however that the decal reading "American Flyer Lines" that appears over the windows on both our cars does NOT appear in the catalog art.

Thanks for posting Greg

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

Greg @Greg J. Turinetti  :  You clearly have the 1938 set 5 which compared with my  set 9 has 1 fewer Pullman car and a different (apparently smaller) engine.  Of course I have no engine at the moment but going by what NWL and Robert have posted my proper engine would  be a 2-6-4 as opposed to your 2-4-2.  The catalog reads with a description of the 3171 Pullmans as 8 1/4 inches although they are often called 8 1/2 inch cars.  You have the single tone red like mine and the "automatic" couplers.  Those steel "curl a q's"  could couple automatically but not uncouple I don't believe.  The force of the cars backing into each other forced the coupler to move to the side and then spring back to couple.   The "R" on the box end designates those new for 1938 couplers.  Your cars appear identical to mine.  It is interesting to note however that the decal reading "American Flyer Lines" that appears over the windows on both our cars does NOT appear in the catalog art.

Thanks for posting Greg

Don

Don,

Actually, the R on the box ends denotes the car color (R = Red).

NWL

NWL: OK that would make sense I had simply interpreted the paragraph from my guide book incorrectly.  In fact it makes more sense than the coupler and might give some insight into why someone took the time to write "Special Coupler" on one of my component boxes on both the bottom and the end.  Thanks

Don

I have dug deep into the bowels to participate in the this part of the thread this week ( no new surprises)

These are the only AF carriages of this "curly coupler" era that I have , They are rough .... its a long way to get here lol!

( but at least there are representing in the Southern Hemisphere! )

Fatman:  As usual a great "add" to our information.  Now we know these cars might have been exported and could be international !  Most interesting is the baggage car, none of the catalog art from the 1938 catalog for either set 5 or set 9 shows a baggage car.  I searched my pre-war Flyer O gauge reference book and did find this car.  It is listed as an "unnumbered, enameled car " and described and shown exactly as you have pictured it.  Especially interesting is that it came with Type XII trucks and the all important Type X coupler (curly q).  It was cataloged as the No 234 R Pullman (no number on car)  in 1939 but likely  would have been available in 1938.

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

Fatman:  As usual a great "add" to our information.  Now we know these cars might have been exported and could be international !  Most interesting is the baggage car, none of the catalog art from the 1938 catalog for either set 5 or set 9 shows a baggage car.  I searched my pre-war Flyer O gauge reference book and did find this car.  It is listed as an "unnumbered, enameled car " and described and shown exactly as you have pictured it.  Especially interesting is that it came with Type XII trucks and the all important Type X coupler (curly q).  It was cataloged as the No 234 R Pullman (no number on car)  in 1939 but likely  would have been available in 1938.

Don

The baggage car is the 6.5 inch version of the 234 baggage car, as Don notes, but it is not the same length as the longer coaches.  It is also a taller and narrower bodied car, so although Fatman's pictures make it look the same size as his cars, it is not.

Additionally, it should be noted that the 6.5 inch cars, including both passenger and freight cars, featured regular hook couplers in 1938 and featured the curly q coupler only in 1939. 

NWL

I believe this is the set that Nation Wide Lines is talking about from 1939.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Greg/NWL :  I agree, I think we all are talking about the 6.5" cars from 1939 with the curly q couplers.  I just checked my set like Greg pictured above and agree those are the cars.  I have one small difference from Greg however, my engine has "401" stamped under the cab window.  You can just make out the small number in the picture below.  Everything else seems identical to the set that Greg pictured above.

Great discussion everyone !

Don

Got a 301 set waiting for a good cleaning:

1939 catalog:

@pd:  Hey your engine matches mine!  Nothing on the boiler side near the boiler front and "401" under the cab window.  Note the curly q coupler on the tender.  Thanks for posting

Don

Since we are posting photos of Set 301, here is mine, although I am not positive about it being set 301 due to the gunmetal gray 401 engine with nickel trim and the streamline tender, which is unusual due to it not having the more common billboard type decal, but rather 2 smaller decals per side.  I note that the set also has 2 coaches and no baggage.  However, it is as found and although it has no boxes, it is in nicely matched condition,

Below it is Set 1 from 1938 with hook couplers and above it is set 303 with blue cars (with an extra coach) with curly q couplers.

NWL

NWL :  I would refer you to Schuwiler's book, pgs 72-73 for what he calls the Type XII tender and pgs 94-95 for a rather lengthy discussion on the Type XX or 401 locomotive.  Too long to quote here, but the key item might be that he mentions the 401 went uncataloged in 36 & 37 and when it returned to the catalog in 1938 it was GREY like yours.  He then states that the locomotive returned to black in 1939.  There is quite a lot of variability in this engine over these late 30's years and Schuwiler takes a number of paragraphs to try and describe the chronological order of things.  To me, such a number of changes speaks to the possibility of quite a number of variations showing up in sets as they were sold, sometimes perhaps even by the dealers at the point of sale.  OBTW beautiful 301 sets, I really loved the blue one.

Just to make matters even more confusing, I have a Type XX loco which appears to date from 1935 but it is a 2-4-0 vice 2-4-4 and has a huge whistle mounted on the back of the motor that basically fills up the cab!

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

NWL :  I would refer you to Schuwiler's book, pgs 72-73 for what he calls the Type XII tender and pgs 94-95 for a rather lengthy discussion on the Type XX or 401 locomotive.  Too long to quote here, but the key item might be that he mentions the 401 went uncataloged in 36 & 37 and when it returned to the catalog in 1938 it was GREY like yours.  He then states that the locomotive returned to black in 1939.  There is quite a lot of variability in this engine over these late 30's years and Schuwiler takes a number of paragraphs to try and describe the chronological order of things.  To me, such a number of changes speaks to the possibility of quite a number of variations showing up in sets as they were sold, sometimes perhaps even by the dealers at the point of sale.  OBTW beautiful 301 sets, I really loved the blue one.

Just to make matters even more confusing, I have a Type XX loco which appears to date from 1935 but it is a 2-4-0 vice 2-4-4 and has a huge whistle mounted on the back of the motor that basically fills up the cab!

Don

Don,

Technically, only one of the sets may be a 301 set.  The red set with 4 cars and the 4603 is Set 1 from 1938 and the blue set with 417 locomotive is set 303 from 1939.

I do have a gray 4603 (that would be the correct number for a 401 type loco in 1938) engine, but it has decals on it, with no actual numbering and copper trim.  The gray 4603 engine is with my 1938 set 1.  The gray 4603 has the streamline type tender, with billboard stripe on it.  My gray 401 engine is lettered 401 (on the side not pictured) and has the nickel trim, similar to the black 401 engines.  That points to my motor actually being from 1939 or later, as the engines were not numbered in 1938.  I have seen a couple of the gray 401 engines sell and they are somewhat difficult to find. 

The whistle in the type XX locomotive is likely one of the uncataloged variations from 1936 or 1937.  I know that I have a number of these motors with the whistles, as well as some of the cheap Hiawatha locos with whistles. 

Here is a picture of the other side of the 401, note the 401 lettering below the cab window.

Here is a picture of the gray 4603, note the copper trim and decals

Here is the 417 locomotive that heads up Set 303 with the blue cars

NWL

Oh well, in for a penny in for a pound....  Here's my 1938 Set #1 - it is a boxed set and has everything listed in the catalog illustration.

Here is a newly restored American Flyer Wide Gauge 4672 running.  Sadly, this engine has been apart for years.  I finally painted it in the summer of 2020 and it sat for another year, before I took it to a friend to re-assemble.  A shout out to Rob English for making some of the steel linkage parts that are attached to the steam chest.

NWL

NWL :  Beautiful 4672 and it seems to run well and smoothly as well.  I have a few std gauge sets (3 Lionel and 1 AF) but no where to run them as I have no room for a std gauge loop.  I was wondering however, behind the 4672 in the last picture is a small black steamer with what appears to be red wheels pulling a green baggage car / coaches...what is that? 

Thanks,

Don

@Nation Wide Lines posted:

Today we are running a c. 1930 Montgomery Ward uncataloged American Flyer set with 3195 engine, Hancock tender, and Illini cars.

The engine last ran in the late 1990s and has been in a box or on a shelf ever since.  I had the engine re-wheeled by someone else in the late 90s and it was sub-par work.  Problem was a replaced axle that had sub-par splines, which resulted in the wheels slipping on the axle and super-glue being applied to try and get the wheels to not slip.  I replaced the axle with no splines and the 2 drive wheels.  I hate sub-par work, but when I first got into prewar Flyer, I did not do my own repairs.  I quickly realized it was too expensive to have others do the work for me and began doing my own repairs.

To answer Don's question about the small engine-tender and green cars behind the 4672, it is the above set.  I just was not running it today.

As for the wheel color on the engine, Flyer painted some of their wheels orange and this engine originally had the orange drive wheels on it, so the replacements are orange as well. 

NWL

NWL:  Thanks, I guess I didn't recognize that guy from your prior post.  I have been looking at a "Hummer" engine and tender and wondered if that was the same (it isn't)...runs great now though.

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

NWL:  Thanks, I guess I didn't recognize that guy from your prior post.  I have been looking at a "Hummer" engine and tender and wondered if that was the same (it isn't)...runs great now though.

Don

Don,

There would be no electric hummer engines.  The hummer line was all windups.  Hummer engines also would have only pulled very small cars.

NWL

Hummer !

(nothing new again this week ... Bummer! )

Just sticking my nose in here to bookmark my return. Some of you may have been wondering who was "Liking" your posts from 6 months ago that was me catching up after a long hiatus. The way my brain is wired I felt obliged to to scrutinize each and every post I had missed to earn my way back in with the Tinplate Gang. Tons of good stuff you guys have ! Happy to be back.

@G-Man24 posted:

Just sticking my nose in here to bookmark my return. Some of you may have been wondering who was "Liking" your posts from 6 months ago that was me catching up after a long hiatus. The way my brain is wired I felt obliged to to scrutinize each and every post I had missed to earn my way back in with the Tinplate Gang. Tons of good stuff you guys have ! Happy to be back.

Hi, G-Man24!  It's good to hear from you!

Dare we hope that you made progress on your layout during the hiatus?

Welcome Back! G-Man 24 !!

Don

Fatman / NWL :  NWL, I embarrassingly did actually know that all the Hummer engines were clockwork, I just had a "senior moment" when I saw your 3195  and forgot that when I asked the question about that engine on the layout.  However the info you provided on that little guy will not go wasted...it will be filed away for future hunt items so Thank you again!

To both of you...I just could not resist the Hummer engine and tender on e-bay and went for it.  The pictures make it look just like yours Fatman and I also purchased a tender. This tender has an interesting lithograph pattern on it and has the number "513" in a rectangle on the side and the words..."The Hummer" over a spreadeagled bird on the rear. I will post pictures when they arrive.

Best wishes to you both.

Don

@palallin posted:

...Dare we hope that you made progress on your layout during the hiatus?

Ashamed to admit it, but minimal progress at best. Hope to change that in the next couple weeks.

@Don McErlean posted:

Welcome Back! G-Man 24 !!

Don

Good to see you again Don, always enjoy your posts.

So desperate to be relevant am I,  that I'm posting some tinplate that is not even mine. My friend is emptying out the house he grew up in after the passing of his dad and he asked if I could list some stuff on that auction site for him. He was bringing me old board games and ashtrays and bottles and I said "you got any good stuff ? you know....slot cars, model trains, hot wheels , stuff like that...? He said "I was gonna throw that junk out !"

So the next time I saw him he had a trunk full of pretty good stuff including this old Marx Tales of Wells Fargo train set. I'm guessing it's "S" guage ?.. unfortunately the Locomotive is missing but the lithographed buildings are pretty neat and the rail cars are nice especially the No.1 baggage car.

Anyway, thought you guys might enjoy seeing it, the graphics on the front and inside of the building are a hoot.

.

@G-Man24  I found one of the carriages ages ago and the William Crookes Set has been on my radar since then!

What a pity it doesnt have the loco ...It should go for a price that might surprise you nevertheless

Mine is in a crappy condition compared to your friends , but its such a departure from "regular" Marx I had to bring it home ( it wuz cheep!)

G-Man24:  that play/trainset is O!  it is obviously not complete, but the pieces there will make some Marx collector VERY happy!  They are in very good condition!  CTT ran an article about these pieces many years ago; if you want, I can try to dig it out.

@Fatman posted:

@G-Man24  I found one of the carriages ages ago and the William Crookes Set has been on my radar since then!

Amazing how this stuff finds it's way around the globe. I thought they would be kind of lightweight but those little Marx cars are surprisingly sturdy.

Actually it came with a deal I got from the UK .. I figured as I was paying shipping anyway....     

@palallin posted:

G-Man24:  that play/trainset is O!  it is obviously not complete, but the pieces there will make some Marx collector VERY happy!  They are in very good condition!  CTT ran an article about these pieces many years ago; if you want, I can try to dig it out.

Found it!  CTT June 1992, pg. 76.  Do you have access to it?

GMan24:  that Marx “William Crooks” set with the box etc is quite valuable. The bldgs are splendid and even more rare. Auction site for that one for sure!! Loco does turn up occasionally but even without it it’s a valuable piece.
Best of luck

Don

@palallin posted:

Found it!  CTT June 1992, pg. 76.  Do you have access to it?

Is there an online link to view it or you need the hard copy ?

I have the copy sitting next to me on my desk.  Do *you* need a copy?  I know of no online copy, but I can scan and email (the issue is long out of print).

@palallin posted:

I have the copy sitting next to me on my desk.  Do *you* need a copy?  I know of no online copy, but I can scan and email (the issue is long out of print).

I certainly appreciate the offer and if I were keeping them for myself I'd accept but since I'm just selling these  I don't want to put you through the trouble. Thank you though.

By the time I caught this reply, i already had the pages scanned, so I went ahead and emailed it to you.  I hope doing so was not too presumptuous.  Maybe it will help get max value for you friend if buyers ask you any questions.

@palallin posted:

By the time I caught this reply, i already had the pages scanned, so I went ahead and emailed it to you.  I hope doing so was not too presumptuous.  Maybe it will help get max value for you friend if buyers ask you any questions.

I got the scans Steve, very interesting and fun read. Thanks so much I will pass them along to my friend.

Scott Smith

@Fatman posted:

@G-Man24  I found one of the carriages ages ago and the William Crookes Set has been on my radar since then!

@Don McErlean posted:

GMan24:  that Marx “William Crooks” set with the box etc is quite valuable.

I have to admit when you guys were calling it William Crooks I was confused. A quick Google search and I realized that Marx had  re-branded the set as "Tales of Wells Fargo"  I also see the same set was marketed as "Pioneer Old Fashioned Train Set".

Then I remembered a broken piece of plastic that was in the bottom of the box of stuff. It said Wm. Cro.....   but it didn't look like it broke off the Wells Fargo tender so I had no idea where it came from. Now it all makes sense...

I'm afraid it also answers what happed to the Locomotive, apparently it met an unceremonious demise.

.

One of the Ives 3251s recently returned to running order is this Series 3 version:

A strong runner, it's pretty battered in its current form, to the extent it's missing a door on one side and the bell is long gone. While I'm long past a time where I wanted things to be pristine, I'm seriously thinking of giving this a refurb, i.e. a strip and repaint after a bit of straightening and dent removal. It never occurred to me that the cab doors on these things were a separate piece of metal soldered into place.

PD

Ok Tinplate fans, today I am offering something quite different.  It is an engine from my small collection of lithographed tin toys.  This is a Diesel Switcher (Road type switcher of the GP type) by Masudaya of Japan.  This is a brute!  It is 17" long, 4" high (not including the horns) and 3 1/2 " wide.  It does have flanged wheels and the gauge is 2 1/2 " that is 3/4" larger than "G" gauge.  IAW the box this toy has..."mystery action" (whatever that is), realistic whistle (for a diesel?), engine sound, and headlight.  It is powered by 3 "D" batteries.  This dates from the 1960's which was a golden era in Japanese lithographed tin plate and I think you will agree they did a marvelous job on this item.  I also liked the slogan of the manufacturer...it was printed on the box..." For the Children of the World from...Masudaya"  Their trademark by the way, which you may recognize from other toys is "TM" in a diamond shaped logo.

Here she is with her box from the side.  The "N?W" notation is either N&W perhaps meaning Norfolk and Western or NEW just meaning that it was new.  I cannot really interpret the stylized "E" between the N and W.

View from the front quarter showing the "headlight" and the multi-color lithography

Here from the rear or end of the long hood,

A couple of top views showing that the lithography continues on all sides plus add on fans , Horn, and vent

The side of the box ...by the way the caution reads..."Ages 3 and Up" luckily I qualify.

I included the close up of the cab area to illustrate the quality of the lithography done in Japan at this time.  Multiple colors, peoples faces, rivets, stripping, vents (in two colors),treads etc.  Quite elaborate.

Well its strange, not exactly a common toy train maker but it is tinplate!  Best wishes

Don

Nice engine Don, looks very good.   Since a long time I was thinking to get one and install a Lionel Standard Gauge BAL motor on. Not sure if it could be done but there must be a lot of space in the inside.... a sort of never made fun loco....

Very best,  Daniel

@Don McErlean posted:

Ok Tinplate fans, today I am offering something quite different.  It is an engine from my small collection of lithographed tin toys.  This is a Diesel Switcher (Road type switcher of the GP type) by Masudaya of Japan.  This is a brute!  It is 17" long, 4" high (not including the horns) and 3 1/2 " wide.  It does have flanged wheels and the gauge is 2 1/2 " that is 3/4" larger than "G" gauge.  IAW the box this toy has..."mystery action" (whatever that is), realistic whistle (for a diesel?), engine sound, and headlight.  It is powered by 3 "D" batteries.  This dates from the 1960's which was a golden era in Japanese lithographed tin plate and I think you will agree they did a marvelous job on this item.  I also liked the slogan of the manufacturer...it was printed on the box..." For the Children of the World from...Masudaya"  Their trademark by the way, which you may recognize from other toys is "TM" in a diamond shaped logo.

Here she is with her box from the side.  The "N?W" notation is either N&W perhaps meaning Norfolk and Western or NEW just meaning that it was new.  I cannot really interpret the stylized "E" between the N and W.

View from the front quarter showing the "headlight" and the multi-color lithography

Here from the rear or end of the long hood,

A couple of top views showing that the lithography continues on all sides plus add on fans , Horn, and vent

The side of the box ...by the way the caution reads..."Ages 3 and Up" luckily I qualify.

I included the close up of the cab area to illustrate the quality of the lithography done in Japan at this time.  Multiple colors, peoples faces, rivets, stripping, vents (in two colors),treads etc.  Quite elaborate.

Well its strange, not exactly a common toy train maker but it is tinplate!  Best wishes

Don

I would love to stuff a STD Gauge motor in one of those😜🤪

Steve

Daniel / Steve :  Thanks for your comments.  I agree, putting a std gauge motor into an engine like this would be fun.  There is no doubt that there is room in the body for anything you might need and the gauge is not too far already from the 2 1/4 " of Standard Gauge.

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

Daniel / Steve :  Thanks for your comments.  I agree, putting a std gauge motor into an engine like this would be fun.  There is no doubt that there is room in the body for anything you might need and the gauge is not too far already from the 2 1/4 " of Standard Gauge.

Don

Do the trucks/wheel sets swivel?  or would one have to heavily modify the frame?

NWL

NWL :  No the truck frames swivel.  Moving in a curve is part of the "mystery action" listed on the box.  The gauge is wrong by about 1/4" from std gauge although the wheel sets are flanged.

Don