TMCC engines killing DCS signal

SUPERWARP1,

   Gary I run DCS & Legacy both and have never had this problem.  Sense TMCC/Legacy runs on a completely different engineering remote control principle, how is your TMCC Hudson killing the DCS Signal.  Do you have the DCS TIU Cable connected to your TMCC Base, and your TMCC drop on the opsite outside Rail from your DCS Drops, and is your TMCC drop, also connected to the out Black Channels of your TIU?  If so you should not be having any problems with your DCS signal.  What makes this new Lionel Hudson interfere with the MTH DCS signal?

PCRR/Dave 

Gary,

I had a similar problem with my Legacy Lionmaster Challenger. I found it necessary to choke both the engine and the tender.

You can try just the engine as the tender no longer uses the old Railsounds power board.  The newer Railsounds Lite board has never been an issue here.  Also please set your ESE engine on the track powered with a DCS engine on the same track under a signal test..  Try turning off the smoke in your ESE and let us know what you see.  I have seen smoke fan motors on the edge do strange things.  If you are using Gargraves track without the ground rails tied together do the same test I mentioned above and using a jumper, connect both outside rails. 

I get to see a few more Lionel engines than most and I am a huge fan of the RCMC board system.

I'd do the engine first, and if the issue persists, do the tender.  The engine will require the higher current choke, , I use a 5 amp rated one.  The tender will get by with one rated anything over about 1/2 an amp.

John, on the later RCMC system the equipment has been no issue for me.  Early Legacy (modular boards) and TMCC are the serious violators.  

Interesting, as I know the K4 with the IR sensor has been a problem for the modular club.  That one has the RCMC.  I've seen other Legacy and TMCC affect it, but not all.  I figure if it causes a problem, throw a choke at it.

All tens when DCS engines are alone. When the ESE HUDSON is one the same track I get 4-5-6 signal readings depending how far apart the two engines are to each other.

As John suggested I'll start with the engine and go from there and I'll do some expermenting as Marty suggest before the mod to the engine

Gary, I duplicated what you did and the ESE had no effect on any DCS.  Did you kill the smoke like I posted on?  If no luck, follow what John outlined.  One more question, what is your track  and wiring?

Haven't tried it yet.  Both outside rails are tied together with bus wiring.  I report back later on the smoke unit

Gentlemen,

    I do have a pretty new Legacy so maybe this is why I never have had any problems with the DCS.  

PCRR/Dave

I think we went through this drill with some one else on a different Lionel engine, and in the end a choke on both was needed.  There a many different CV boards I have seen in Lionel TMCC engines over the years.  One mimics exactly the CV board in MTH Premier and that needs a choke.

Not sure why one RS tender needs a choke when many others do not.  But it is a simple fix.  G

At least one experience-based old article on TMCC and DCS together mentions placing a 2.2K resistor in line on one lead of the TMCC-DCS connector cable to improve TMCC signal (when received via a TIU, I assume?).  Is this a separate issue, and is the 2.2K resistor still a useful tool for TMCC signal improvement or other reasons?

Never heard of that, and I don't see how that could help. 

cnwdon posted:

At least one experience-based old article on TMCC and DCS together mentions placing a 2.2K resistor in line on one lead of the TMCC-DCS connector cable to improve TMCC signal (when received via a TIU, I assume?).  Is this a separate issue, and is the 2.2K resistor still a useful tool for TMCC signal improvement or other reasons?

I remember something similar when  we first tried running TMCC with the dcs remote.  The first cable didn't work that well.. I believe a  Forum member  named Ernie Emerick??   came up with the fix.  (and it worked)

Yes, there was an issue with the first DCS, TMCC cable from MTH.  Only mattered if you tried to run TMCC with the DCS remote.  Gregg is correct on the fix. Ernie was a forum member and I believe did work for TA Studios. 

 MTH stepped up to the plate and offered a free exchange for cables even if you had already made the mod. .

Gregg,

It was forum member Ernie Emrich (Lionel2341).

His first shot at it was a resistor. He then improved things using an inductor, as I recall, and finally settled on an opt-isolator. I built and still have all 3 variations of Ernie's cable modification.

He's also the inventor (for TAS) of the TAS kits to put TMCC in a Lionel Gantry Crane and the kit to make the crane move on tracks, and the TAS smoke fluid loader product (the original), that is being remade by Lionel. I have all 3 TAS products on my layout and they work just great!

Dave_C posted:

Yes, there was an issue with the first DCS, TMCC cable from MTH.  Only mattered if you tried to run TMCC with the DCS remote.  Gregg is correct on the fix. Ernie was a forum member and I believe did work for TA Studios. 

 MTH stepped up to the plate and offered a free exchange for cables even if you had already made the mod. .

Dave, does that mean that current-sale cables don't need a resistor, inductor or other "help?" Thanks, Don

No resistor needed nowadays.

does that mean that current-sale cables don't need a resistor, inductor or other "help?"

As long as you're using MTH cable #50-1032, you'll fine with Legacy and/or TMCC.

Thanks, guys, all of you.  I have a 50-1032 ordered.

Don

Ok back to topic  Ok just confirmed the ESE Hudson kills the signal and it doesn't matter if the smoke unit is on or off.  The effects are the same.  So this engine will be getting the choke sooner or later.

Check the individual sound levels under the System, Sound menu.

superwarp1 posted:

Ok back to topic  Ok just confirmed the ESE Hudson kills the signal and it doesn't matter if the smoke unit is on or off.  The effects are the same.  So this engine will be getting the choke sooner or later.

Or keep  the ESE Hudson in a different block away from the DCS engine  An insulated joint separating the dcs engine  should keep the DCS  signal ok.

We could have more than one block on a tiu channel.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Check the individual sound levels under the System, Sound menu.

Yep, Seems  parts of this thread   were  removed?

Gregg posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Check the individual sound levels under the System, Sound menu.

Yep, Seems  parts of this thread   were  removed?

Yeah, got my sounds back so I edited the thread.  Gunrunnerjohn responded before I deleted.

So, how did you get the sounds back?  Part of the value of the forum is the solutions to issues that arise.

SW1,

   Please post how you fixed the problem, if it's the use of the cable, it maybe why I have no problems, with this type of DCS interference.  I definitely would like to know how you corrected the DCS signal problem.

PCRR/Dave

gunrunnerjohn posted:

So, how did you get the sounds back?  Part of the value of the forum is the solutions to issues that arise.

Ok, I lost sounds in my PS2 5volt B&A Hudson doing the signal test.  No matter what I did.  Feature reset, Engine reset, volume up/down, signal test on/off.  Shut down/start up the engine.  Turn power off/on.  Nothing worked.  No sounds, engine worked normally though.  Got fed up shut everything down and walked away.  Posted the issue that John responded too.  Went back to the layout a half hour later and turn it on and the sounds were back.  So go figure.

Gary,

Went back to the layout a half hour later and turn it on and the sounds were back.

I've experienced that once or twice. I chalked it up to a slowly-discharging capacitor, or something similar.