TMCC is up and running WOW!!

Rob,

I hesitated for a number of years before I got into command control.  When I found I had better control of the speed of the engines I was hooked.  Command offers more speed steps (slower, finer speed steps) than conventional plus all the cool features associated with command engines.  Your conventional engines should perform better too.

I have TMCC with the CAB1-L/Command Base-L and PS2 with DCS.  I also have an old CAB-1 and PowerMaster and the DCS Remote Commander (neither being used at present), I presently run everything (Lionel, 3rd Rail, Atlas, Williams, MTH) via DCS.

Enjoy your TMCC!!!

I think you went a bit overboard.  TMCC doesn't need star waring, DCS does.  I've got a loop on the floor of FasTrack and only one power drop near my CW-80.  I attached the command base to the outside rail and done, now command equipped.  3 wires, 2 going to the same place on the track and it runs great.  I wasn't going to go command, but after getting a deal on a TMCC set I tried it and love it.  TMCC is definitely the easier of the two O systems to set up.

TMCC is definitely the easier of the two O systems to set up.

I've got 3 wires going to my DCS/TMCC layout also, 2 wires to the track and the single wire coming from the TMCC command base to the black output on the TIU.  NO star wiring, no block wiring involved.  The only thing better would be battery and RC control.

Wait until you unlock the power of the ZWL with Legacy! Not one single product that Lionel has ever released has single handedly out dated so much previously released product. Ironically I cannot remember having so much fun pulling down off of the shelves, the Post War engines and running them effortlessly with the Legacy remote.... amazing.

You won't be sorry; it only gets better.

I'm actually thinking about getting a used CAB1 since you can find them fairly cheaply now that the CAB1L is out. I don't have any actual TMCC locomotives right now - just a PS3, PS1 and a Lionel conventional but have heard even running these in conventional  mode through the CAB is better in terms of speed control. Of course I can always upgrade these with ERR boards as the budget allows. 

I wired it this way because I eventually want to use DCS. 

Welcome to the land of command!  Just remember, you can never go back.

Wait till you use a Legacy remote to operate any command- equipped pullmor motored engine. It makes them run that much smoother. My 1996 Commodore vanderbilt hudson with the pullmor runs so much better. A cab-1 does help but a legacy remote does better.

A good idea in wiring for TMCC is using a common ground underneath your layout and run all your hots back to your transformer,etc. Just connect pigtails of commons to that one ground loop of wire ansd run one wire back to your transfomer and one wire to your command base.

No Kidding!!!  After running TMCC for over 10 years, I put my postwar 2055 hudson on the track and turned the throttle to 18 volts, like I always do.  I forgot how fast that thing actually is!  Thankfully the floor stopped it!

Tom

So much for that Hudson.

Rob,

    If you are eventually going into DCS you did a smart wiring job from the beginning, and your TMCC will also run great on it also.  I have been running DCS with my Fastrack layouts for many years, now with the advent of the FasTrack Command Control switches, I am adding Legacy to my DCS layouts, no more switch wiring on my layouts in this manner.  Something you also might want to look into sense you already have the TMCC.

PCRR/Dave

Thanks Dave,

I missed the sale that was taking place here for the Command Switches.  77.00 bucks is dirt cheap for those.  I wish I had seen the thread before the time expired.

Reading this thread and listening to you guys is going to cost me a fortune!

I am happy for you dude..........er, runamuck.  I had K line F7 ABA's in a box for two years (yep brand new) before I ever ran TMCC.....or even these engines. After I set up the track and fired up the engines.....with neighbors and beer........man o man!

   I suggest you go buy the Lionel  TMCC Crane and Boom car and start loading/unloading from 27 feet away via TMCC. You may never leave the train room!

Ted - I would appreciate more info on the "common ground" wire.  I'm not too saavy when it comes to electrical stuff - what are "pigtails"?  Do you mean just run a long wire around the bottom of the layout and connect all the grounds (black wires) to it?

You can email me at starhopper@cox.net if you like.

Thanks

Do you mean just run a long wire around the bottom of the layout and connect all the grounds (black wires) to it?

Use whatever color you like. Yes, run a 12 or 14 gauge stranded wire around the bottom of your layout and drop small pieces of wire from your track and accessories to that and just run your hot wire back to a buss bar or to your transformer.

Stranded wire does not heat up as fast as solid wire.

Once you see your first command demo, or fire up your first command engine, you are hooked for life.

"Resistance is futile"; there is no way you will ever be happy with conventional again.

Ask me how I know.

Rod

Ted - OK - I understand running the ground wire - but how do you remove the insulation from the ground wire at each point you have to "pigtail" a dropped wire to it? I'm used to stripping insulation form the end of a wire - but how do you strip it from the middle of a wire?

I just use my pocket knife to score the insulation, then run a slit in the insulation between the scores and peel it off.

I'm not sure about heating in stranded vs. solid wire, I never heard that before.

No need to strip wire, merely use suitcase connectors where you add feeders, quick easy and neat.

Run one hot wire along under your layout and one common/ground wire and add in feeders wherever you need them, I went every 10' using 14Ga buss and feeders.

In this photo, the yellow wire would be the track feeder. The red wire is your "buss" wire.

Terry, what in the world were you trying to say?  I'm straining to get the point of the post?

Ditto!  One of the primary advantages to command control (TMCC/Legacy and DCS) is it negates the need for crawling under the layout to do complex wiring.  No "star wiring" for me (although I really don't know how much it may be needed on a large layout)!

I may have used the term "star wiring" incorrectly in my OP. 

My ground wire was run from the ZW-C to two terminal blocks in series.  My feed wires run off of the main ground wire using the suitcase connectors described above. 

The reason I used the terminal blocks was to give me additional access points from which to attach ground wires needed for future. 

I may be over thinking my design but this is what I am currently using.

John,

I saw a post here on the forum a long time that someone claimed that solid wire heats up quicker than stranded. To me, I don't see the difference and I used 12 or 14 gauge solid wire as my common ground loop uner the layout. Never had an issue yet.

For higher frequencies I can see it might, but not for 60hz power.  Even for higher frequencies, since the strands are not individually insulated, I'm not sure if there's any measurable effect.

Just a little bit confused... I'm just starting out with tmcc and do I need all this wiring such as common ground and power drops throughout the track? What's the easiest way to do it?

If you have any amount of track, multiple power drops are recommended.  I've run a 50 foot loop of Fastrack with a single power drop.  I've also noted that the power is several volts lower at the far side of the loop as a train passes doing that.  A power drop every 8-10 feet is probably sufficient for 95% of layouts.

For tmcc what's the best wiring to use for my layout? I've heard of bus wiring but I don't know what that is or how it works.

Well, if you use star wiring, you'll be ready for DCS if you ever decided to add that.  It'll also work fine for TMCC, so there's really no downside to doing it that way.  Bus wiring also works fine for TMCC.

John, how does bus wiring work and where does power drops wired into it?

Bus wiring is a long hot wire and a long common wire that go from your transformer around the layout the length of your track and can either stop, or better, go back to the transformer.

Then you add in "feeders" to the track from each of the long "bus" using the suitcase connectors in the manner I posted above.

As John stated earlier in the case of TMCC/legacy this is primarily for good power delivery. It has little if any effect on signal.

"Star/ home run" wiring, is the "preferred" wring style for DCS. DCS communicates with the loco through the hot wire, to the center rail of the track into the pickup roller on the loco.

TMCC/Legacy do not have a "preferred" wiring style.

A wire "bus" is simply a pair of heavy wires (#12 or #14) that go around roughly the same pattern as your mainline that carry the track power.  A periodic intervals you tap into these wires with drops from the track, typically I recommend 8-10 feet between drops, but that can vary widely.

If you have multiple power districts, you're likely to have multiple wire buses as well.

Can you use those suitcase connectors to connect your feeder wires to your bus wire?

Absolutely.  They work great.  Just make sure that you close them until they snap shut.  I had a couple that I hadn't closed all the way.  I discovered it when I checked continuity between the ZW and the end of the feeder that was connected to the suitcase connector. 

Yes. As an example, in this photo (not Mine). The black and white wires are the bus, and the yellow and red are the feeders.

FWIW,the two sets of feeders going out in opposite directions suggests there are two sets of tracks above each pair of bus wires.

runamuck - where does one get "suitcase connectors"?

Thanks!

I use these Posi-Lock connectors to attach feeder wires to bus wiring.

Similar to suitcase connectors. Work great for me.

http://www.posi-lock.com/instructions1.html

I'm using the 180w power brick with the cab 1L and 1L base. Does the bus wire connect from one end to the power brick to the 1L base? Could I use 16 guage wire for my bus wire?