Traction tires, nay or yea

Lot of hostility towards traction tires.  Who would have thought it?  My experience is that they last for a very long time (10+ years of relatively heavy use), they are easy to change, and help the train run a lot better.  I would prefer the train manufacturers focus on actual issues (uniform O gauge control standard?, quality control on the electronics?) than on something which is probably an issue for a vocal minority.  

BTW, I've run locos with traction tires dismounted, for kicks, and they generally run a lot worse, from my TMCC Alco C-420 to MPC era diesels.  Granted you can add weight and what-not, by why bother if the engine runs fine as it was set up from the manufacturer?  Seems like creating a problem and work where there is no need to do so.

I'm a fence sitter here in a way.  I have some (RK Y6B) that have thrown their traction tires and I just run it without anyway without any diminishment in performance.  If its very heavy and has lots of wheels it seems to do fine without them and my inclination is not to replace them.  I have to admit my big steamers never climb grades steeper than 2.5%, or go around curves sharper than 72", or pull more than about 25 cars, so they really should not need them. 

I have others that really need traction tires (BEEPS and BEEFS) - so if and when they break I "replace" traction tires using FrogSnot - well not actually that product, I buy the plastic goo meant for dipping plier handles in to "plastic coat" them - seems to be the same stuff and cheaper.

I have found that for the most part, traction tires are not needed....in particular if we are speaking of steam locomotives.  More recent MTH locomotives are using more plastic in the trucks and thus are lighter weight so may need multiple units to pull a long train...but still don't need traction tires if the proper number of powered units are used for the length and weight of train being pulled.  Kind of like the prototype if you think about it!!

At least for me, traction tires have been more of a PITA than a benefit.....

Alan

You can have MT even if your motors are DC.  The magnets are inside the wheel/axel assemblies, or just above the truck.  MT is independent ot the motor.  However, with MT, there is an increase in weight, so there will be a trade off.

I run a large number of desels and steam locomotives WITHOUT traction tires.

But most of the diesels and smaller steamers really need them.

I have found that traction tires are not that hard to replace.

I don't have any traction tires, best thing I did is get rid of them. Steel wheels only.   

clem

Good Day,

I wish all train companies would eliminate all rubber traction wheels on O Gauge and S Gauge diesel locomotives. The rubber creates a mess on the track. In the real train world there are some slippages from time to time.

Regards,

Swafford

IMHO, tires are a necessary evil if you haul long consists, diecast, use non-magnetic rail, or your layout isn't perfectly level.

Stack   

Three things:  I believe my dislike of traction tires is based on some "good old days" feeling about postwar Lionel.  Second, somehow traction tires always felt like cheating to me.  Third, my layout is not large enough for prototypical lengths.  Magnetraction and bare metal wheels limit my engines to pulling numbers of cars in proportion to their size.  This realistic feedback of friction limits my trains to lengths that look good on my layout.  A 1666 2-6-2 can pull 5 postwar cars and a Trainmaster pulls 12. Working the throttle to get a slippery '90 Scale Hudson underway with her "lead wheel" passenger cars always puts a smile on my face. 

That being said, I do not remove the traction tires from anything and have not had any trouble with them coming off (Gargraves flex track, O66 and O54 mainline, 3% grades, Lionel).

Nathan

I dislike a few things about traction tires.

1. They leave deposits on the track which inhibits electrical conductivity.
2. They allow a locomotive to pull a non-prototypical number of cars. Yes 40 cars at 40MPH on the mainline is impressive, but not with a single 4-axle switcher.
3. They break or throw at the worst possible time.
4. When you run without them, the rails eventually cause wear on the grooved wheels or the wheels cause wear on the rails -- neither is good.
5. You can potentially overload an engine because it stalls instead of slipping.

I had a serious problem with traction tires on my large MTH, Lionel and Sunset articulateds, 2-10-4, and 4-4-6-4, and MTH diesels.  They would pull 30+ cars up a built in 1-2% grade in my garage layout.  Now I have solved the problem.  All of my recent purchases of big power from Sunset (Y6b, 2-10-10-2, GG-1, DM&IR Yellowstone) and KTM (DD40X) are in 2-rail and for my postwar stuff, I buy magne-traction only.  As for thoses locomotives that lost their traction tires, they stayed off!

Just keep adding more powered units until you trip the circuit breaker on your transformer. 

6. That image of changing a tire on a Lionel Y6 front driver under the cylinders. (From Patrick I think? Still gives me shudders!!)

I was pretty neutral on traction tires until I had a PS/2 engine throw one.  It was on the other side of the club layout, and I wasn't paying close attention, got distracted by another activity.  It jammed the drivers and killed the PS/2 board!  NOT GOOD! :-(

I commented on traction tires late last year when this topic first got going and my attitude about them hasn't changed as yet.  I like 'em!  Tried running engines without their traction tires and they just don't make it.  Simply not enough traction.  One engine, an Atlantic, pulls seven 21" aluminum passenger cars up a 2% grade when running with the tires.  Can't pull four of the same cars on the same track without them.

Again, I will mention that I only use Weaver's traction tires for replacement on any manufacturer's engine.  Their tires have a cross hatch tread pattern that not only grips the rail well, but also allows the tire to move just a little bit within the tread groove on the drive wheel.  This lets the tire adjust to it's starting position each time the wheel turns a revolution and prevents the tire from "bunching up" and causing first a rough ride followed by the  tire generally coming off.

Yes, after some time and probably quite a number of scale miles, the tires will begin to wear out, a bit.  Also, I expect that if the wheels slip and generate heat, the rubber will loos it's resilience and can come off.  But, if I have to replace more than two pairs of tires (always replace them in pairs, both wheels on an axle) in a year's time I would be very surprised. 

Comparing model trains to real  trains isn't a valid example. The physics of model trains is different than the real trains.  Furthermore, we generally have much tighter curves, stiffer grades, higher friction rates in our bearings, etc. than our   full sized bretheren.

Traction tires are no problem for me.  I like what they do to make my trains run better.

Paul Fischer

For those getting rid of traction tires.   What do you fill the groove with?

My preference would be to do away with the tires (as I have been).   I currently use bullfrog snot.   But I'd like to just weight the engine properly and fill the groove with something I'll never have to worry about again.   Frog snot does wear off and unlike a obvious tire flapping around you have to actually check them.   I'd also like to have a bit of wheel slip/spin rather then the tire stretching and frog snot wearing out faster.

    Don't likem at all and that's all I have to say!

          Lee,

  How do you apply the plastic coat to the wheels?

I use the sharp tip of a tooth-pick. Turn the model up-side-down, hook up some jumper wires in order to power the model, then rotate the wheels a bit at a time and apply the Bull Frog Snot.