I had heard that they are building a very deep tunnel under the East River so that the LIRR can stop at Grand Central. Is that finished yet?
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Not yet, Eddie. Expected completion is December 2022. Here is a link to some info on the MTA’s website.
The project is using an existing old tunnel under the river that was refurbished to handle the increased usage. They had to drill two new tunnels from Long Island City to connect with the portals at the river. Sunnyside yards have been dramatically transformed to accommodate the new ROW's. New tunnels and platforms were built deep below Grand Central to handle the trains.
Unfortunately by the time they get this project done there will be no reason to go into NYC anymore 
It uses one of the more interesting pieces of infrastructure around. Back in the early 60s, they realized they needed a new feeder to Queens in midtown Manhattan and starting making plans. These continued to change until they settled on 63rd street. In the late 60's a bond issue was approved and a double level tunnel (subway on top, LIRR on bottom) was built prefab by a shipbuilding firm in Virginia. It was moved to the site and sunk in place, and by like 1972 it was fully in place and was actually connected. By roughly 1976 the tunnel was structurally in place, but budget crises sunk it.
It was restarted in the late 80's and the subway was completed to queens in 91, but the LIRR portion was not part of the plans. The subway dead ended at Queens plaza, tough. It took like another 10 years to connect it to existing train lines in Queens.
Fast forward, and they decided to re ignite the LIRR project in like 2003, tunnels were bored in 2006 and 7, and project kept going ,albeit slowly, current projects are as someone said, next year. One of the driving forces, not surprisingly, was that with the fragility of the East River tunnels (built at the same time as the Hudson River tunnels), if they went down it would be a mess. By having these in operation they could divert trains through the new tunnel to Grand Central on weekends and light travel times to work on the other tubes.
Probably the biggest problem with the East Side Access project is that the dual-mode bi-level trains can't use it because of clearance restrictions.
Stuart
Will this line take some pressure off Penn?
@Dominic Mazoch posted:Will this line take some pressure off Penn?
That is the hope. As a life long user of the LIRR the hike back east across town from Penn is often the worst part of the commute.
@Dominic Mazoch posted:Will this line take some pressure off Penn?
That is the plan but, the plan is also to run some Metro-North trains down to Penn. So it will probably all equal out in the end.
@RJ I posted:That is the plan but, the plan is also to run some Metro-North trains down to Penn. So it will probably all equal out in the end.
That’s interesting, RJ... I never heard about MN trains going to Penn. Several years ago when I was still commuting to the city, there was a model of the proposed construction near the station master’s office and the LIRR tunnel was pretty deep, below the lower level of Grand Central. Do you know how they plan on connecting the MN tracks to the LIRR tracks???
The Metro-North and LIRR tunnels won't connect. I don't believe that was ever a consideration--way too much depth difference, with an entire concourse sitting between the two, and insufficient capacity in the existing terminal trackage to accommodate extra trains anyway, not to mention the third rails being two different types --top contact for LIRR, and bottom contact for Metro-North.
---PCJ
Here's the info on MN/ LIRR usage at Penn. MN will use the Amtrak line over the Hellgate bridge, through the Harold Interlocking, and under the East River. The project is contingent on the LIRR moving capacity over to Grand Central.
Thanks Patrick and Bob. The MTA info makes it clear that there are two distinct projects... LIRR access to Grand Central and MN access to Penn. Based on the stated timeline (“Metro-North service to Penn Station will begin after completion of the East River Tunnel rehabilitation and the MTA's East Side Access Project, which will provide direct LIRR service to Grand Central Terminal”), I think it is safe to say that I won’t see it completed in my lifetime (you’ll have to forgive me... and old boss always called me the resident cynic!!!)
@RailRide posted:The Metro-North and LIRR tunnels won't connect. I don't believe that was ever a consideration--way too much depth difference, with an entire concourse sitting between the two, and insufficient capacity in the existing terminal trackage to accommodate extra trains anyway, not to mention the third rails being two different types --top contact for LIRR, and bottom contact for Metro-North.
---PCJ
Maybe the MTA will revert to their old bus/subway system - you get a paper transfer allowing you to change train lines at GCT (the LIRR folks who go through Jamaica should know the drill). 
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There is also interesting discussion on "through-Penn" trains from New Jersey and out to Long Island.
Jon 
Could be wrong. But I think the two systems, LIRR and MN, use two diffetent types of 3rd rail. One has top running, and the other under runnning operation?
@Dominic Mazoch posted:Could be wrong. But I think the two systems, LIRR and MN, use two diffetent types of 3rd rail. One has top running, and the other under runnning operation?
Yes, you are correct. LIRR uses over running, and Metro North uses under running. At one time the MTA tried to make a universal third rail shoe that could be used on either without any special set up, but it just couldn't be made to work reliably.
Stuart
So that begs the question.... how will they modify the third rail from Harold into Penn for both LIRR and MN.
Inquiring minds want to know 
@RSJB18 posted:So that begs the question.... how will they modify the third rail from Harold into Penn for both LIRR and MN.
Inquiring minds want to know
Do questions like this keep you awake at night???
I assume that a catenary is out of the question, so... Do LIRR and MN cars have pickup shoes on both sides of the car (I vaguely remember subway cars having them on both sides)??? Could they have an over 3rd rail on one side of the track and an under rail on the other???
The only Metro North trains that will run into Penn Station will come from the New Haven line via Shell interlocking in New Rochelle. They use catenary already, Harlem and Hudson trains will still only use Grand Central..On the flip side the LIRR trains using Grand Central will have their own tracks deep under the current upper and lower levels and will not mingle with Metro North trains at all. The LIRR trains will use their own over running, PRR developed, third rail. I hope this clears it all up. Included in this is 4 new Metro North stations in the Bronx. The first will be Co-op City or Pelham Bay, Morris Park and two more.
With LIRR having its own rails into GCT, that settled two issues: type of 3rd rail and signal system. Heard LIRR is the old PRR system on 'droids.
@Stuart posted:Yes, you are correct. LIRR uses over running, and Metro North uses under running. At one time the MTA tried to make a universal third rail shoe that could be used on either without any special set up, but it just couldn't be made to work reliably.
Stuart
Let me guess. MN is legacy from NYC, and LIRR from PRR?
@Dominic Mazoch posted:Let me guess. MN is legacy from NYC, and LIRR from PRR?
OK,,,,,,, just what does this statement mean??????
@Hot Water posted:OK,,,,,,, just what does this statement mean??????
Metro North (MN) uses the system it inherited from the New York Central (NYC), while the Long Island Rail Road (LIRR) uses they system they got from the Pennsylvania RR (PRR).
Stuart
@Stuart posted:Metro North (MN) uses the system it inherited from the New York Central (NYC), while the Long Island Rail Road (LIRR) uses they system they got from the Pennsylvania RR (PRR).
Stuart
But what does his statement about "legacy" have to do with it?????
Saw this article today about the East River Tunnels. 
https://www.newsday.com/long-i...r-tunnels-1.50247191
Not in our lifetime seems more likely every day.
Bob
@RSJB18 posted:Saw this article today about the East River Tunnels.
https://www.newsday.com/long-i...r-tunnels-1.50247191
Not in our lifetime seems more likely every day.
Bob
Seems I have to subscribe to view it....
They could have given everyone who wanted to go to the "other" station a ride in an uber for a fraction of the cost. And it would have been done immediately!
Reminds me of the old story about NASA developing a pen for the original astronauts which would work in zero gravity. It cost a few million dollars. The Russians gave the Cosmonauts pencils.
Gerry
Gerry,
Thanks for the old wives tale. Urban legends never die. Many of us on this forum have a habit of stretching things a little too far at times.
That pen wasn't developed by NASA. It used pressurized ink and was developed well before the space program came along, in order to deliver better performance everywhere, gravity or not, including in driving rain, and on slick surfaces. The R&D didn't cost NASA a cent.
Google Fisher Space Pen. See for yourself. Paul C. Fisher used the space program as a marketing tool, not as a windfall.
M.H.M.
@GeoPeg posted:Seems I have to subscribe to view it....
Oops- I forgot about that.
Try this link. Not sure if it will work either. Looks like the paper changed sharing permissions for links.
"But what does his statement about "legacy" have to do with it?????"
It means just what the word means...legacy, as in, "something transmitted by or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past" (dictionary definition.) MN inherited a system from the NY Central and LIRR inherited a system from their parent, PRR. Seems like the exact word for the occasion to me. Is there some alternative connotation that you have in mind?
