UP 21" Excursion passenger cars 6-83042 vs UP Los Angeles 18" passenger cars 6-20010

The 21" cars are scale length; the 18" cars are reduced length to handle sharper 3-rail curves. The new cars are plastic and supposedly better detailed (we'll find out at the end of the year). They also seem to be modeled closer to the actual excursion cars being used. I ordered a set of the 21" cars to haul behind my MTH Big Boy 4014 (oil fired) and my UP Heritage diesels. I saw one of the first releases of the new 21" cars and they're well done.

Thanks Matt. Are you getting the 4 pack or the whole set of 7 cars? Also do they have more features than the aluminum?

Strafe posted:

Thanks Matt. Are you getting the 4 pack or the whole set of 7 cars? Also do they have more features than the aluminum?

They don't really have more features per se, but are an improvement via better lighting, lighter weight, and close-coupling on straight track using Lionel's new coupler design. I ordered the base set plus the 2-car add-on. I passed on the diner because I don't use legacy and it's not worth the price under those circumstances. I figure I can scrounge up a diner if I really need one.

Hello Matt.  Great to see you at York.  I am a huge fan of the close coupling feature.    Mike Reagan had  the lighting board used in the new 21 inch cars checked out to be positive it does not cause an issue with DCS.  It is a perfect board and has no effect on DCS.  I already picked up the C&O set and ordered the PRR, UP, and Freedom Train.  I wanted the C&O to run behind my Lionel Yellowbelly Hudson.  The Hudson has been converted to a can motor and DCS.

The most recent release of the 18 in UP cars includes the same led flicker free lighting system as the 21 in cars. They have painted interiors and are populated with about 10-12 figures per car. These cars are representative of the 1950s era City of Los Angeles just before the domed observation equipment arrived on the UP. They are very nicely done, roll well and are a good choice for a layout with tighter curves.

The 21 inch cars (I have the Southern Railroad set  are very nice as well .  I would have preferred the cars came with passengers as did the 18 inch cars . My vision is such these days that I am not able to disassemble the cars to add travelers. I think the 21 inch UP set will be a stunner since the effort from Lionel is likely to create a nice copy of the current excursion fleet. Kato has a beautiful N scale set for this train and I would think Lionel will be looking to create an equally beautiful and accurate set for its current Legacy fleet of UP power.  I hope they do painted interiors and populate these cars for this set.

LIRR Steamer posted:

I would have preferred the cars came with passengers as did the 18 inch cars . My vision is such these days that I am not able to disassemble the cars to add travelers. I think the 21 inch UP set will be a stunner since the effort from Lionel is likely to create a nice copy of the current excursion fleet. Kato has a beautiful N scale set for this train and I would think Lionel will be looking to create an equally beautiful and accurate set for its current Legacy fleet of UP power.  I hope they do painted interiors and populate these cars for this set.

It's difficult to answer the OP's question about a comparison because so far as we buyers are concerned, the excursion car set is simply a catalog illustration coupled with some text and comments from Lionel personnel recorded in various threads/videos I have seen here.

Based on that and what's in my 21" Texas Special set, I don't expect any passengers in the excursion cars and although I hope that the interiors will have a paint scheme rather than being moulded in one color I am more than a little doubtful about that. 

At some point Lionel disclosed that there would be a difference between "generic" 21" ABS cars and those that are more "prototypical." The 21" cars released to date fall into the first category; they are all based on the ESE set  in terms of car body style/detail and interiors. The excursion cars can't and won't be based on the ESE because the prototypes were from a different manufacturer, had a different construction and the catalog says the models will be scaled from UP drawings. So I expect more accurate bodies and different interiors but beyond that it's hard to guess at this point what we will actually see. 

P.S. The 'metal vs. plastic' debate has been done to death already. The 21" ABS cars have a fine finish and although I prefer the aluminum cars, I can't see that the material will make a great deal of difference to the UP excursion cars. 

With regard to the prototype accuracy of the UP Excursion set is concerned, I would think that chances are pretty good that this set will be quite accurate . Both Kato and Walthers have made these sets in N and HO so the lionel folks have something to look at in their design room. The cars actually exist so they can be inspected, measured, photographed and copies of the car drawings can be obtained. Lionel has said that they will follow the car plans to do this set. All of that does sound pretty promising for these cars.

The ESE set was also to be built to the car plans of the prototype cars. I have not seen this set up close. I do have the 18 in version made a few years back for the Century Club. From what I saw compared to plans and photos, The window arrangements were dead on, almost all of the visible details seem to be where they were in the prototype and the car names are correct for the trains equipment as it was in 1941. Since they did it once before for the 18 inch cars, I would think that attention to details as they promised in the catalog would yield similar accuracy for the 21 inch version.

The Southern set that I have is indeed generic. All of the cars do  have accurate names and visible details for southern cars for the types provided. There are two 10-6 sleepers which were sort of ubiquitous on American railroads so a 10-6 as a Southern car and as a texas special car might be very similar in its appearance. We might call it generic but they were quite similar as they appeared on various railroads.  The ESE had parlor and chair cars which the Southern set does not have so those are unique to the ESE offering.

I find that Lionel's recent passenger car offerings have paid attention to little details that might not be obvious on first inspection. As an example, for the recent 18 in set for the Senator train , the car markings carry Pullman designations and markings for cars operated by the Pullman company when the train was first delivered. The drumhead on the observation is an accurate replica in its colors and borders for the Senator. It was different than the Congressional observation in the border color. These are nice little touches that one might not find on generic cars . They do date the train to as delivered. On the downside, They could not resist the temptation to include a Pennsylvania vista dome in the set. We all know that the PRR never had a dome, but if they did, it might have looked like the car that Lionel made for this set.

The conclusion, I would be off the opinion that when Lionel does the UP inspection train , it most likely will be a very nice set. .

LIRR Steamer posted: 

The conclusion, I would be off the opinion that when Lionel does the UP inspection train , it most likely will be a very nice set. .

Personally, I think this 21" set will set the standard all the others will be judged by in the future in terms of accuracy.

The catalog depictions show great promise.  Waited forever for this train to be made & I think Lionel will do it justice.

The "older" 18" Al cars won't compare to the new 21" Excursion set. I'd opt for the new set if it were me-opinion.