Question for Hot Water or any rail-fan person.
I subscribe to the following magazines.
What would be a good reference book that deals with Rail-Fanning and or the Union Pacific 844? Best if it was still available in printed form.
Gary
Dominic Mazoch posted:I thought a "MARS" light was a particular type of lighting system made by the, er, "MARS" company?
steam fan posted:True. There's a MARS light, and Pyle Gyralite. I believe they have two different patterns as they are patented and copyrighted.
From Wikipedia (good source to help answer questions about things, you know, so people don't have to speculate!): 
Mars lights were built by Mars Signal Light Company for railroad locomotives and firefighting apparatus. There were many models of Mars Lights, which used several methods to oscillate the beam. Sometimes the bulb and assembly were moved, other times a reflector behind the light was rotated. The beam was usually oscillated in a triple eight pattern, i.e., the beam would oscillate up and down two or more times for every horizontal sweep, providing a source for the company slogan, "The Light from Mars". The beams came in a variety of shapes and colors, some locomotives having red and white lights.
Gyralite is a similar type of gyrating warning light formerly made by The Pyle-National Company and now by Trans-Lite, Inc. It is distinguishable from the Mars Light in that the ratio of vertical oscillations to horizontal oscillations is unity, producing a circular or elliptical scan effect.
Mars lights were developed by Jerry Kennelly, a Chicago firefighter who realized that oscillating lamps would benefit fire departments and railroads. He performed an operational test with the C&NW railroad in 1936, and Mars Lights began appearing on locomotives in the 1940s.
Tri Lite, Inc. announced their acquisition of the Mars Signal Light Company, effective January 23, 1991. Tri Lite still manufactures many of the traditional Mars Lights under the Tri Lite Mars brand. The company has updated the Mars "888" Traffic Breaker with energy-efficient LEDs replacing the earlier halogen incandescent bulbs.
Hot Water posted:EBT Jim posted:What is the significance of those keychain-type things at 0:25 of this video that Gary posted?
Those are the individual employee identification & craft tags, which are hung onto the FRA mandated Blue Flag, affixed to the cab. The first employee hangs his/her ID tag on the Blue Flag, and then affixes the Blue Flag itself to the side of the cab, on the Engineer's side. As additional employees arrive at that job site, each intern hangs their one individual ID tag on the Blue Flag. The locomotive is NOT to be moved whatsoever, until the Blue Flag is removed, and the Blue Flag is NOT to be removed until all the employees working on that job site, have finished and removed their individual ID tags. Then, and only then, is the ORIGINAL employee that placed the Blue Flag, allowed to remove his/her own ID tag, and then remove the Blue Flag.
This procedure is also followed throughout all railroad diesel shops in the U.S., per FRA regulations.
Thank you. Very interesting.
I didn't know anything about tags on a blue flag, but that makes a lot of sense. Nobody wants to be the person to move a locomotive then hear a muffled interrupted scream from underneath as it starts to roll.
Don't forget, up to not that long ago, railroads were a ridiculously dangerous place to work. Safety initiatives in recent times have saved a great number of lives.
trainroomgary posted:Question for Hot Water or any rail-fan person.
What would be a good reference book that deals with Rail-Fanning and or the Union Pacific 844? Best if it was still available in printed form.
Gary
Gary:
You can try "Building Union Pacific 844" by John Bush or "The Mighty 800" by Bill Kratville. The Bush book focuses a bit more on the 844 whereas Mr. Kratville's volume is a presentation of the FEF locomotives as a group. There are copies of both titles currently listed on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Buildin...-Birth/dp/0942035984
https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-...tville/dp/B0007EME4Y
Good luck,
Bob
p51 posted:I didn't know anything about tags on a blue flag, but that makes a lot of sense. Nobody wants to be the person to move a locomotive then hear a muffled interrupted scream from underneath as it starts to roll.
Don't forget, up to not that long ago, railroads were a ridiculously dangerous place to work. Safety initiatives in recent times have saved a great number of lives.
Doing a quickie web search, it appears the Blue Flag (or Blue Lantern) rule was in effect by the mid 1880's. The exact date seems to be a little elastic.
Rusty
Rusty Traque posted:p51 posted:I didn't know anything about tags on a blue flag, but that makes a lot of sense. Nobody wants to be the person to move a locomotive then hear a muffled interrupted scream from underneath as it starts to roll.
Don't forget, up to not that long ago, railroads were a ridiculously dangerous place to work. Safety initiatives in recent times have saved a great number of lives.
Doing a quickie web search, it appears the Blue Flag (or Blue Lantern) rule was in effect by the mid 1880's. The exact date seems to be a little elastic.
Rusty
And yet, people still died in engine houses, just like they did in other places all over the railroads.
Never said blue flags in general were new, but the exact procedure of individual tags attached to them that HW mentions certainly is.
My point is that railroads have been keen on safety from the start but really took it to a stronger level within the last few decades.
To all you UP fans, I know this has been long awaited. I for one, am glad to see one more locomotive under steam.
FWIW, that is one big "spare tire" it's dragging around.
CNJ 3676 posted:trainroomgary posted:Question for Hot Water or any rail-fan person.
What would be a good reference book that deals with Rail-Fanning and or the Union Pacific 844? Best if it was still available in printed form.
Gary
Gary:
You can try "Building Union Pacific 844" by John Bush or "The Mighty 800" by Bill Kratville. The Bush book focuses a bit more on the 844 whereas Mr. Kratville's volume is a presentation of the FEF locomotives as a group. There are copies of both titles currently listed on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Buildin...-Birth/dp/0942035984
https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-...tville/dp/B0007EME4Y
Good luck,
Bob
I actually just ordered these two books the other day along with "History of Union Pacific in Cheyenne". Looking forward to seeing these as I haven't purchased a RR book in probably 20 years.
p51 posted:Never said blue flags in general were new, but the exact procedure of individual tags attached to them that HW mentions certainly is.
Railroads began using those tags hung on Blue Flags more than 20 years ago.
Hot Water posted:p51 posted:Never said blue flags in general were new, but the exact procedure of individual tags attached to them that HW mentions certainly is.
Railroads began using those tags hung on Blue Flags more than 20 years ago.
I think those are really neat. Where can you buy them?
Do they use those tags in addition to three-step protection?
smd4 posted:Hot Water posted:p51 posted:Never said blue flags in general were new, but the exact procedure of individual tags attached to them that HW mentions certainly is.
Railroads began using those tags hung on Blue Flags more than 20 years ago.
I think those are really neat. Where can you buy them?
Early on, I believe they were making them. Later, the current manager had them custom made.
Do they use those tags in addition to three-step protection?
Yes, "three contact/step protection" is always important.
OK, for us civilians, just what is three step protection?
SouthernMike posted:OK, for us civilians, just what is three step protection?
One MUST have three FIRM points of contact, i.e. two feet, and one hand firmly gripping, or one foot and both hands firmly gripping.
SouthernMike posted:OK, for us civilians, just what is three step protection?
Actually, for us, three step protection is a procedure we use to provide positive protection for people on the ground before they go between, behind or under equipment (actually it's in our rule book). Any one who works around the engine or train while it's stopped must request three-step protection from the engineer (either by radio, verbally if people are close enough or hand signal), who then verifies that the person on the ground has three-step protection.
The three steps the engineer must perform are:
1. Apply the brakes.
2. Center the reverser in the control stand, or the Johnson Bar on the steam locomotive (this prevents the engine/train from moving in either direction, much like shifting your car into neutral.)
3. Verify that the throttle is completely closed.
Once all three steps have been done, the engineer replies, "Three step protection applied." When the person who requested three-step protection is finished doing whatever the task was, that person is the only one who can request that the three-step be removed. The engineer will then verify "three step protection removed."
I guess it's pretty much like using a blue flag--only it requires the crew to communicate with each other directly.
CNJ 3676 postedGary:You can try "Building Union Pacific 844" by John Bush or "The Mighty 800" by Bill Kratville. The Bush book focuses a bit more on the 844 whereas Mr. Kratville's volume is a presentation of the FEF locomotives as a group. There are copies of both titles currently listed on Amazon:
Good luck, / Bob
Hi Bob • Thanks for the tip..............
Hot Water posted:Those are the individual employee identification & craft tags, which are hung onto the FRA mandated Blue Flag, affixed to the cab. The first employee hangs his/her ID tag on the Blue Flag, and then affixes the Blue Flag itself to the side of the cab, on the Engineer's side. As additional employees arrive at that job site, each intern hangs their one individual ID tag on the Blue Flag. The locomotive is NOT to be moved whatsoever, until the Blue Flag is removed, and the Blue Flag is NOT to be removed until all the employees working on that job site, have finished and removed their individual ID tags. Then, and only then, is the ORIGINAL employee that placed the Blue Flag, allowed to remove his/her own ID tag, and then remove the Blue Flag.
This procedure is also followed throughout all railroad diesel shops in the U.S., per FRA regulations.
Hi Hot Water / Thanks for sharing this information about the employee identification & craft tags, used by the Union Pacific.
I have a friend who is a Fire Marshall, and they have a similar process on fire trucks to keep track of firefighters that enter structures that are on fire. (Safety Tags) Along with a technical device that can also monitor there location, via radio signals. He is also a model railroader, HO Scale. Once again thanks for all your information about the 844 and real trains.
Gary
Dominic Mazoch posted:Union Pacific on the front, again. The unit no longer looks "naked"!
Haha, well, that lettering on the nose of cab units was standard for many years, but I can remember watching a lot of UP diesels go by without it before they started adding it. Personally, I never liked it, as, to me, it upsets the natural design of the paint scheme. However, since I don't own these units, I'll defer to their owner's right to letter them as desired. They are very handsome diesel locomotives. with curved number boards, all portholes intact, Farr stainless steel radiator grilles, and skirts around the fuel tank.
The 'Living Legend' Returns to Service
Omaha, Neb., July 20, 2016
Union Pacific's No. 844 steam locomotive will return to the rails this week, making several public appearances in Colorado and Wyoming. Delivered in 1944, No. 844 is the last steam engine built for Union Pacific and recently underwent a nearly three-year restoration at UP's Steam Shop in Cheyenne, Wyoming.
No. 844 is scheduled to pull The Denver Post Cheyenne Frontier Days train on Saturday, July 23, between two important Union Pacific communities, Cheyenne and Denver. In conjunction with the trip, public displays are scheduled for No. 844 in Greeley, Colorado, and Cheyenne, Wyoming:
Due to the dynamic nature of these operations, scheduled times and locations are subject to change. A comprehensive schedule including locations and display times – as well as a route map and a GPS monitor of No. 844's location – is available at: http://www.up.com/aboutup/spec.../steam/details.shtml.
Details about the restoration of No. 844 are available in a series of blog posts and videos available online via Union Pacific's Inside Track website at: http://www.up.com/aboutup/community/inside_track/heritage/index.htm
ABOUT UNION PACIFIC
Union Pacific Railroad is the principal operating company of Union Pacific Corporation (NYSE: UNP). One of America's most recognized companies, Union Pacific Railroad connects 23 states in the western two-thirds of the country by rail, providing a critical link in the global supply chain. From 2006-2015, Union Pacific invested approximately $33 billion in its network and operations to support America's transportation infrastructure. The railroad's diversified business mix includes Agricultural Products, Automotive, Chemicals, Coal, Industrial Products and Intermodal. Union Pacific serves many of the fastest-growing U.S. population centers, operates from all major West Coast and Gulf Coast ports to eastern gateways, connects with Canada's rail systems and is the only railroad serving all six major Mexico gateways. Union Pacific provides value to its roughly 10,000 customers by delivering products in a safe, reliable, fuel-efficient and environmentally responsible manner.
View this release online along with any supplemental materials athttp://www.up.com/media/releas...20-steam-returns.htm
Gary
They look better this way !!! the letters screw up the flow 
Video from my son.
Very nice, about 23 cars and a diesel in tow, sounds great.
Denver bound, Union Pacific 844. July 21, 2016 • Play time 54 seconds.
Gary
That is terrific!!! Hats off to the UP Steam crew.
JohnB
JohnB posted:That is terrific!!! Hats off to the UP Steam crew.
JohnB
Very well said, and I'll bet ole "Hot Water" is glad as well! There ain't nothing better than a "Steam Locomotive".............................
Hot Water posted:p51 posted:Never said blue flags in general were new, but the exact procedure of individual tags attached to them that HW mentions certainly is.
Railroads began using those tags hung on Blue Flags more than 20 years ago.
Odd. I work with a guy who retired from CSX in yard work less than 5 years ago and he never heard of individualized tags on a blue flag. He told me there were other things they used for accountability, such as sign in-out logs and a few things that I wasn't too clear I understood the application of. But no tags. I showed him the photo and said, "Wow, that's a great idea, but we never had anything like that".
The diesel is the Rio Grande heritage unit UP 1989. Very cool! Congratulations to the UP Steam team.
I don't understand the "Legendary" aspect...what Legendary things has 844 done over the years besides pull as it was originally built to do?
Casey Jones2 posted:I don't understand the "Legendary" aspect...what Legendary things has 844 done over the years besides pull as it was originally built to do?
Yeah, it's pulling as built, but it's been doing it off and on (off only during maintenance issues) ever since it was built, for the same owner. I don't think any other steam locomotive in America can make that claim...
Brandy,
I am sure the vast majority of the forum are delighted the 844 is back in service no matter what side you were on in the prior debate on the restoration.
Casey,
It is legendary because it was never retired.
JohnB
Picky ! picky! A big steamer at speed on the high iron !! Doesn't get any better than that. Live the moment.
Those SMOOTH yellow cars make for a great train!
Beautiful train. That engine is a brute. Very impressive. Long may she run.
does this prove that the 4014 will be completed by 2019?
bigdodgetrain posted:does this prove that the 4014 will be completed by 2019?
With any locomotive restoration unexpected delays can happen. I'd hope at this point the UP steam program had a rough idea of everything that needs to be done with 4014. So 2019 isn't impossible but as with any steam locomotive being restored I don't rely on the date that's been set.
I will say that never having been "officially retired" is a pretty big claim to fame for the 844 and the UP. I am happy she is back and at the head of a gorgeous train, but I think setting a date for the 4014 is not the best idea as you just don't know what you're going to find until you tear in to it. No sense in adding to the stress level. Let's just give it time and allow things to progress. 
One thing is for sure; if 4014 has any chance, getting 844 running and off the "to do" list was a big start.
p51 posted:One thing is for sure; if 4014 has any chance, getting 844 running and off the "to do" list was a big start.
Oh I agree completely.
While watching Train Room Gary's 7/12/16 video of the 844 at Greeley i came up with some questions.
1. While the two crew members are lubing the rod bearings one is carrying a container that looks like a small cooler. While I never saw him open it I believe it was probably some sort of grease. Is that correct? If so how was it added to the pneumatic gun being used?
2. While the camera panned the train I noticed two doors in the middle of the side of the tender. What are these doors providing access to?
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