Can someone actually confirm this isn't an elaborate hoax by the "uneducated foamers"? Kent's pictures could be a photoshop. The videos could be older footage edited together. We need hard evidence and apparently the Denver Post isn't trust worthy.
Hot Water posted:BobbyD posted:Not a UP historian, was it delivered in black or two tone gray?
Assume you mean UP 844, and NOT the "bracket" discussed by Mr. Sartor, yes all the UP FEF 800 class steam locomotives were delivered in black. The two-tone gray "passenger scheme" was not developed until 1946, and first appeared on Challenger 3976 (the idea for the two-tone gray was first proposed by the workers at the Albina Shops, in the Portland, OR area). Other "passenger assigned" steam locomotives then began receiving the two-tone gray styling.
Correct, thanks!
Odd. 611, 765 and 4449, with some others, seem to be run with some very sharp minds.
I thought oil burners like the 844 and 4449 need to be run with Bunker C oil, which is very thick. But is not Bunker C hard to find today?
Source: Denver Post & OGR Magazine - Facebook Page - July 22, 2016
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Dominic Mazoch posted:I thought oil burners like the 844 and 4449 need to be run with Bunker C oil, which is very thick. But is not Bunker C hard to find today?
They now use used oil.
Well this really sucks!
Per UP's Steam Locomotive tracking page 844 was scheduled to arrive in Cheyenne today at 10 am.
The arrival time posted on the same page above was 10:04 am. Late. FAIL!
This is totally unacceptable! They had better do better next trip. 
While Waiting for the UP 844, Click Here
Hi Kent: Thanks for the link to the UP Tracking Page:
UP's Steam Locomotive tracking page 844 - Very cool.
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Chuck Sartor posted:I was out in the yards before dawn this morning. I know there is many picture and videos already, but here is a couple of mine. Sorry about the poor quality.
HI Chuck / Looks like you are having a great day, thanks for sharing your photos and video.
Gary
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Congratulations to the Steam Team on a successful first leg of Cheyenne Frontier Days, Denver Post Special.
Gary / Railfan...................
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The Union Pacific 844, is back on the main line. See live tracking at:
http://www.up.com/aboutup/spec...ains/steam/trace.cfm
Gary - Railfan......................
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OK, Gary. Enough is enough with the pictures already.
EBT Jim posted:Tranz4mr posted:The Post article did mention that 844 was open for visitors today at 45th st and Brighton Blvd Denver across from the Forney museum. I went down around 5pm tonight to check it out.
I think the choice of that diesel is petty cool. Good job, UP.
The Union Pacific often puts considerable effort into details that many don't notice. When they double headed the 844 with the 4449 to Seattle, they arranged to have the Southern Pacific Heritage unit along. I have seen the diesel 8444 teamed with the 844. For those that don't know, the 844 was renumbered to 8444 from, IIRC, 1969-1991, to make the #844 available for a GP30 numbered in the 800 series, and then got her Proper road number back when the GP30 was retired. Unless I am mistaken, I also believe that the diesel #4014, was included in bringing the Big Boy 4014 to Cheyenne, from the museum in California.
These small details, must take a lot of advance planning to have these units positioned for these uses, and do not add any revenue to the bottom line, and are likely only noticed by a small minority of those that see them.
Thank You Union Pacific, not only for these small details, but your sense of corporate history, and willingness to spend, on equipment and events that have unmeasurable effects on your income, MANY of us do appreciate these things.
Doug
Back to the 844 and the Frontier Days train adventure.
Apparently 844 brought the passengers back to Denver from Cheyenne last night at 7:59 pm, 11 minutes ahead of their published schedule. There are no known stories published in the Denver Post or elsewhere at this time of any damage to equipment, UP personnel or passengers. Meanwhile the 844 and her crew are stopped in Denver awaiting the start of their final leg of the trip back to Cheyenne
Details per the UP's Steam Locomotive tracking page.
This thread has certainly taken some strange twists and turns. Drive, run... I think the vast majority of the general public wouldn't notice the difference and the meaning was conveyed. I wouldn't expect a reporter to understand the other technical aspects either. But of course, everyone knows that you ride a motorcycle, not drive it. I have no dog in this fight either, but there definitely seems some do, and there is a certain aspect of snobbery conveyed that is very noticeable. I would venture to say that ninety five per cent of the guys following this don't know if sand is put in the boiler or whatever that was about ( don't care to look back) and are simply happy to see this grand steam engine running again. Again, long may she run. Nice job UP.
William 1 posted:This thread has certainly taken some strange twists and turns. Drive, run... I think the vast majority of the general public wouldn't notice the difference and the meaning was conveyed. I wouldn't expect a reporter to understand the other technical aspects either.
However the reporter COULD ask about things and what is actually going on.
But of course, everyone knows that you ride a motorcycle, not drive it. I have no dog in this fight either, but there definitely seems some do, and there is a certain aspect of snobbery conveyed that is very noticeable.
REALLY?????
I would venture to say that ninety five per cent of the guys following this don't know if sand is put in the boiler or whatever that was about
Again,,,,,they could simply ASK!!!!
( don't care to look back) and are simply happy to see this grand steam engine running again. Again, long may she run. Nice job UP.
William 1 posted:This thread has certainly taken some strange twists and turns. Drive, run... I think the vast majority of the general public wouldn't notice the difference and the meaning was conveyed. I wouldn't expect a reporter to understand the other technical aspects either. But of course, everyone knows that you ride a motorcycle, not drive it. I have no dog in this fight either, but there definitely seems some do, and there is a certain aspect of snobbery conveyed that is very noticeable. I would venture to say that ninety five per cent of the guys following this don't know if sand is put in the boiler or whatever that was about ( don't care to look back) and are simply happy to see this grand steam engine running again. Again, long may she run. Nice job UP.
There are also those of us who don't know, but being train fans want to understand what it is all about. To me, I find steam engines fascinating and am glad to have people who can point out the inner workings, hows, and whys. It is also in my opinion not snobbery, but completely understandable that those who have and also currently put so much into something like this, that they want everything to be accurate.
I have also learned the most in life from those who were often gruff and short with their explanation and corrections. Almost without exception, they have all been great people. Being tough on others and expecting excellence in their work is not a bad thing. Personally, we need more of it, as there are enough snowflakes running around.
I have been a railfan for as long as I can remember, soon to be 51, and I still learn more all the time. I also agree that it is not snobbery, in trying to get the CORRECT information out there. It not only does me and others no good to get incorrect info, but is actually a dis-service, for those of us who want LEARN the real facts about the locomotives and other aspects of railroading.
Doug
trainroomgary posted:
Gary
Thanks for posting the UP steam team member photos. These guys have been working crazy overtime to get 844 to where it is now and deserve to be recognized for their extreme effort.
Thank you!
TexasSP posted:I have also learned the most in life from those who were often gruff and short with their explanation and corrections. Almost without exception, they have all been great people. Being tough on others and expecting excellence in their work is not a bad thing. Personally, we need more of it, as there are enough snowflakes running around.
I'm almost 60, and I've found it is the opposite
I've found that gruffness and shortness with others was an indication of some degree of narcissism ... and those people have a need to always be right .... even if they have to fudge the facts a bit to make them fit.
Anyway .... for a non-railfan .... I do think seeing this engine run is a good thing. Its cool. It interested me into making a small donation to a volunteer/museum steam program in my part of the country..... something that I have never done.
I hope UP goes forward with the "BigBoy," and it all goes well. I think I would like to actually travel to see it run, someday.
I also hope that topic threads here on OGR discussing the progress of 4014, don't devolve into insults, name calling, and predictions of failure.
Jim
After all the huffing and puffing, I would venture to guess you really didn't learn a whole lot from this thread about how a steam locomotive is prepared and run. The boiler prep aspect probably went right over your head, just like it would've to the offending reporter and almost everyone who would read the article. It was fluff because it was intended to be fluff. More PR than an educational sermon on how a steam engine is prepared. I just don't like guys who have to act like a big shot all the time. Everyone has different life experiences. And copy my posts with a one sentence answer. Oh yeah, that was already covered. I'll take the fluff over some of the crap I've read herre. Over and out.
Well guys, then just skip over those posts that offend you. Simple as that, read what you want, ignore what you don't like. Some of us like it, some obviously get their feelings hurt. There is plenty posted here I don't care for, but getting offended or worked up over it is a waste of time. In my life, I tend to try to find the good in people, regardless their disposition. Not everyone you can learn from will make you feel warm, fluffy, smart, or special. Some of the best lessons I have learned have been from a good butt chewing from people who had only the best in mind.
Fluff piece or not, the news story should at least be factually accurate.
As in illustration, I can imagine that if I was learning how to operate a steam engine under Jack or Rich (or any other steam guy for that matter), things might not always be warm and fluffy. It's serious business with serious consequences if not executed properly. I can even imagine if I screwed up or they might chew my butt. I might even get annoyed or angry with them at times. But, I bet after it all I would have respect for their knowledge and be astonished at what I had learned.
I am the same way in my job. Most of you probably don't care in the oil field whether it's a tool made of 4140 110 Yield or 4140 80 Yield Alloy Steel or would have any clue the difference. But you can bet I will straighten you out if it's wrong. Why? Well, the consequences of not knowing and using the wrong one in certain environments are literally life and death.
The guys are passionate for a reason. Sad some of you are too sensitive to even try and see it. You write it off as arrogance or snobbery, but that's just an effort to dismiss them and not consider it past that. None of you can point out that they're wrong, you just say it doesn't matter. Maybe not to you, but to them and others like me who want to know and understand, it does matter.
Getting back to the 844 and the Frontier Days train adventure and away from the he said she said whining.
844 appears to be a bit behind schedule and are just pulling into Greeley for a 15 minute stop. Details on UP Steam Locator page....
http://www.up.com/aboutup/spec...ains/steam/trace.cfm
Have fun play trains!
Apparently in today's world, accuracy is overrated.
EBT Jim wrote:
I'm almost 60, and I've found it is the opposite
I've found that gruffness and shortness with others was an indication of some degree of narcissism ... and those people have a need to always be right .... even if they have to fudge the facts a bit to make them fit.
MY experience has been the opposite of yours Jim, Especially the fudging the facts a bit.
after several years of not catching any fish, a Brother in Law, that many would consider "Gruff or Short" spent some time with us and my Wife and I caught 13 Salmon between us, the best over 32 pounds. Then He went on to teach us several different ways of preparing those Salmon that I didn't previously know. I have Thanked him many times for sharing his knowledge so generously, and we have become Very Good Friends.
William 1 wrote:
After all the huffing and puffing, I would venture to guess you really didn't learn a whole lot from this thread about how a steam locomotive is prepared and run. The boiler prep aspect probably went right over your head, just like it would've to the offending reporter and almost everyone who would read the article. It was fluff because it was intended to be fluff. More PR than an educational sermon on how a steam engine is prepared. I just don't like guys who have to act like a big shot all the time. Everyone has different life experiences. And copy my posts with a one sentence answer. Oh yeah, that was already covered. I'll take the fluff over some of the crap I've read herre. Over and out.
I would disagree with you, while my experience pulling the throttle on a real Steam locomotive is very limited, I still want to learn FACTUAL information, and would prefer that over the "Fluff"pieces. You are welcome to disregard any correct info you like, and only read "Fluff" if that is your preference, but myself, I will take actual info over warm hugs and smiles any day of the week.
Doug
Source: RJ Sangosti, The Denver Post, Sunday July 24, 2016**
Gary Railfan - OGR Member and Hard Copy Subscriber for the OGR Magazine
**United State of American • Copyright Fair Use Act of 2016 / Fair use is a legal doctrine that permits limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. It is one type of limitation and exception to the exclusive rights copyright law grants to the author of a creative work.
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Well 844 made it. Cheyenne to Denver, to Cheyenne, to Denver and back to Cheyenne today.
Passengers delivered pretty much on time in both directions, alive and without any predicted drama or explosions.
Congratulations to Ed Dickens and his crew. Well done
Here are a few decent youtube videos posted online.
UP 844 Cheyenne Frontier Days train Northbound, North of Platteville 7/23/2016
Union Pacific Cheyenne Frontier Days train in 2016 with UP 844
Wow, you guys argue over more pointless things than our own federal government. Good thing I'm not paying tax dollars just yet to read it on this forum! 
Those videos were really neat and I thoroughly enjoyed watching the cab shots of Ed and his fireman working. One question: I noticed he was constantly in communication with what seemed like the diesel crew or other crew members (might be wrong on that). Was he communicating with someone to tell how much dynamic brake to add or were they measuring performance etc?
Thanks in advance.
Probably talking to the crew in the 1989, throttle position, dynamic braking ect. I think there was a problem with the new MU box communicating with the 1989.
N&W Class J posted:Probably talking to the crew in the 1989, throttle position, dynamic braking ect. I think there was a problem with the new MU box communicating with the 1989.
I figured that. Thanks Chris!
Where would 844 be cleared to run to from Cheyenne over ths UP system?
New MU box issues ? If true, something is amiss. The first MU box in a steamer was placed in AFT 4449 in 1975, I think?
Tommy posted:Where would 844 be cleared to run to from Cheyenne over ths UP system?
Not so sure I really understand your question. However, UP 844 has been to virtually every city on the current UP system; Chicago, Milwaukee, St Paul, St Louis, Kansas City, Houston, Denver, LA, Oakland, Sacramento, Eugene, OR, Portland, OR area, Boise, ID. The only place that I can recall that 844 will physically NOT fit, is Portland, OR Union Station since she can NOT negotiate the curve from Albina Yard to access the bridge of the river and the curves at the bridge.
There are no trips currently scheduled for the remainder of 2016, though.
The crew is literally going to start tearing down and digging into 4014 from here on out.
I still can't understand why they wouldn't get 3985 running. There is no logical reason as it's obviously capable and requires much less effort. A big boy is impressive but only moderately more than a challenger. Plus as long as it took for the 844 I can't see the BB steaming before 2025.
I would like to see 3985 also, along with everyone else. The reason given was the super heater has been trashed. I'm no mechanical expert, but I would think a new one could be fabricated. I think for what ever reason the 3985 is not Ed's favorite engine.
But remember, things can always change as time goes on.
Chuck Sartor posted:I would like to see 3985 also, along with everyone else. The reason given was the super heater has been trashed.
After completely hydro-testing each individual superheater unit, they were all loaded on a flat car, and push outside, totally unprotected from the elements. After about 3 years, they reduced themselves to scrap, and were "disposed of".
I'm no mechanical expert, but I would think a new one could be fabricated.
Yes, however all new return bends and ball-socket ends will have to be made.
I think for what ever reason the 3985 is not Ed's favorite engine.
Definitely true! He has manufactured many different excuses for why the 3985 was stuffed into the rear stall of the roundhouse, and slowly dismantled. The latest "ecplaination" was "3985 was a slippery locomotive, and tended to wheel slips." The biggest reason for the hatred for 3985 is two fold; A) it was totally restored by UP employee volunteers, and B) previous manager Steve Lee has always been famously associated with 3985.
But remember, things can always change as time goes on.
TexasSP posted:I still can't understand why they wouldn't get 3985 running. There is no logical reason as it's obviously capable and requires much less effort. A big boy is impressive but only moderately more than a challenger. Plus as long as it took for the 844 I can't see the BB steaming before 2025.
Has your boss ever told you to do something that didn't make any sense to you, but you did it anyway (knowing what the consequences would be if you didn't)? I suspect that Ed has a boss somewhere in the corporate structure giving him directions.
Whether or not that boss sincerely supports the steam program, or knows his *** from first base is another question.
844, Challenger, BigBoy ...... all of these engines were built in New York? And then delivered to UP out there? Steam locomotive production was only done in the industrial northeastern U.S.?
I was never really a "railfan" ..... I just enjoy model trains. But, I am much more interested in steam engines now. And, I would like to see that BigBoy run ..... perhaps, in person
Matt Ryan
