A friend has asked me to upgrade a Rev G TIU that still has the original software on both the remote and the TIU. I've done upgrades in the past, but never from an original version to Rev 5. What do I need when doing this upgrade? Any peculiar issues? One issue I am aware of is this computer has only USB ports. All my previous work was done on a computer with a serial port available. Will any serial to USB adapter work?
Thanks in advance!
Chris
LVHR
Replies sorted oldest to newest
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vantec...5:g:m6cAAOSwvU5XNLjo
12.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sabren...%26sd%3D331854476949
either of these to will work !8.00 is much longer ok.
good luck
Alan
these are usb to serial adapters which will working perfectly, don't forget you need stereo 3.5 adaper cable to transfer 5.0 to tiu ok must be stereo cord!
You must do a remote reset after upgrading a remote from version 2.#. I don't recall if a reset is needed after a tiu upgrade. It's been many years since I've done an upgrade from V2. Someone please chime in.
let us know how you made out with the upgrade ok@
Alan
Robert,
You must do a remote reset after upgrading a remote from version 2.#. I don't recall if a reset is needed after a tiu upgrade.
Yes, a TIU is necessary.
Guys, I think I'm in a post that's on topic? Correct me if I need to post somewhere else. I have a TIU/remote and a couple of AIU's I inherited from my late father-- they were purchased new in 2002, and as far as I know, have never been upgraded-- they've been in storage since 2004. They seem to be working, but I'm not sure how to figure out what firmware is installed on them-- when booted up, the remote says version 2.00, copywrite 2002, so is that the firmware version? A few questions related to that-- should I, and if so, HOW should I, attempt to upgrade these? Do I similarly need to upgrade the AIU's? And lastly, GGG rebuilt one of my father's old MTH locomotives and in-process upgraded it to PS 3.0-- but I now don't seem to be able to add it to this DCS version (I'm not surprised). Any help or direction-setting here would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
The software in the remote and the TIU should be upgraded to the latest version. See Barry's note above. A TIU purchased in 2002 probably was a Rev. G, the original. Any other (later) version would have a sticker on the bottom. The original Rev Gs had a design defect which caused a failure rather quickly. MTH /repaired/reworked them under warranty. If yours wasn't done, its life is iffy; I have two which MTH did repair/rework, and they are still in service.
From the MTH site, download a program called "Loader." You will also have to obtain a 1/8" to 1/8" stereo cable (can be a few inches long) and a USB>serial cable to connect a modern computer to the TIU (Most modern computers don't have a serial cable port).
thank you! I'm familiar with the concept for upgrading the TIU-- will that then upgrade the remote as well? And does the AIU need a similar firmware upgrade? And there's no way to determine if MTH reworked it, huh? Thanks again!
@Sparticus posted:Guys, I think I'm in a post that's on topic? Correct me if I need to post somewhere else. I have a TIU/remote and a couple of AIU's I inherited from my late father-- they were purchased new in 2002, and as far as I know, have never been upgraded-- they've been in storage since 2004. They seem to be working, but I'm not sure how to figure out what firmware is installed on them-- when booted up, the remote says version 2.00, copywrite 2002, so is that the firmware version? A few questions related to that-- should I, and if so, HOW should I, attempt to upgrade these? Do I similarly need to upgrade the AIU's? And lastly, GGG rebuilt one of my father's old MTH locomotives and in-process upgraded it to PS 3.0-- but I now don't seem to be able to add it to this DCS version (I'm not surprised). Any help or direction-setting here would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Shout out to Train World @TrainWorld.com for making these videos. They will guide you through the whole process:
Connecting the TIU for upgrading the Firmware: YOUTUBE LINK
Installing the MTH DCS Consumer Loader program: YOUTUBE LINK
Uploading Firmware to your DCS Remote: YOUTUBE LINK
This video is not produced by Train World but gives a good overview of how to update the Firmware on the TIU: YOUTUBE LINK
The AUI doesn't need any firmware updates, The Remote and TIU are upgraded through separate processes using the DCS Loader program.
The AIUs do not upgrade. They are pretty much a box of relays. The V2.00 is the remote version. The TIU version could be different but I doubt it. Using the remote, you have to go into the System Menu>TIU SETUP>TIU VERSION. It will display on the remote screen.
TheTIU firmware and the remote firmware are upgraded separately. When doing the TIU, you'll have the stereo cable connecting 2 ports on the TIU and the remote will not be connected. For the remote, REMOVE THE STEREO CABLE and connect TIU and remote with the telephone handset cable.
The Loader software and excellent on-screen step-by-step instructions. Follow them to the letter. If a process fails, unpower TIU, then repower and start from scratch
Yet more free advice that's priceless. Thanks to all who contributed.
Note for software that old, when you upgrade to 6.1 you will have to do a factory reset of both the remote and the TIU. That also means you lose all the engines, routes, etc. that are stored, you have to re-enter all your info, you're starting "factory fresh".
Wow, this is immensely helpful. Thank you, everyone! So, update: a new issue has just presented itself with the TIU as I was preparing to order the cables needed to accomplish this. I will search other posts, but the red light on the TIU wouldn't come on when I started up the Z-4000 it's connected to tonight. I disconnected and confirmed it was connected properly to the fixed output/input but nothing. I then followed a suggestion in another thread about powering the TIU with a 12v adapter, which turned the light back on. But still when the 12v adapter is unplugged from the TIU, even with the Z-4000 still connected/on, I get no red light from the TIU anymore. Maybe this is the issue RJR posted about with Rev G above? I'll search a bit more, unless someone has a quick suggestion.
Take the board out of the bottom of the case and look at the bottom side. If you see a brown line inside the PCB, that's a blown power trace for FIXED #1, that's not something that can be repaired. This happens to the Rev. G (original TIU) with power overloads as they have undersized power traces and no fuses.
If the wrong barrel is used on the AUX power it may not reset the metal tab and has Fix 1 input disconnected from TIU circuit. You will have output on F1 terminal, but no power to TIU. Screw drive can sometimes pry tab back down, but if it has been stretched too much it may not return next time you use aux power. G
Thank you guys for all your help. In the end, it was the fuses in the Z4000 for the fixed circuits--they were tripped, so now all seems to be back and functioning. I'll order the cables now for the upgrade. Here's one last question, since I've learned I have the original model TIU-- is there any benefit to installing an external fuse on any of the connectors for the TIU, since there aren't any internal fuses on my model? Thanks again.
Yes. I would install a 10A fast blow fuse on the hot (red) side of each output.
Chris
LVHR
I agree with Chris, most certainly install some fuses, the original G model had traces that weren't as wide as the later models, so it's even more important to protect them with fast acting circuit protection.
thanks guys-- so on the output side only, but not needed on the input side?
I have a TIU that I was not gong to use on my Lionel layout. But this article is making me re-think that decision. Most of my engines are TMCC (50%), a few Legacy (20%), a fair number of conventional (25%) and a few proto 1 and proto 2 (5%). I'm getting set to wire the layout, so now is the time to decide. What is the concensus?
Well, given today's climate, I sure wouldn't get rid of the TIU, but I'll take it if you want to unload it. 
Do you think you might want to acquire any more PS/2 or PS/3 locomotives? Are you think of being an all Lionel railroad?
Personally, I setup my layout to run TMCC/Legacy and DCS seamlessly on all tracks, best of both worlds.
GRJ,
I have been motivated by your post and have followed your progress on the layout. At this time, I will not be purchasing any new PS2 or PS3 engines. I don't have your skills or knowledge to repair them. I already have K-line engines that I worry about getting parts for. I hope someone picks upon the MTH line for everyone's benefit.
Regarding your suggestion of having a layout to run both; is the only difference bus wiring vs. star wiring? Are there other considerations I should be aware of?
If I have five loops, do I need another TIU?
Thank you to all on this forum.
All my overcurrent protection---I use breakers instead of fuses to save money in the long haul---are on the input side of the TIUs' circuits. This is to also protect the transformers (I have some old PW LIonel Zs & Ks) and possibly also the TIUs if they should get an internal short.
Windy City: My layout is not star wiring & has 70 toggled blocks. Any loco, conventional or DCS, can go anywhere at any time. As to number of TIUs required, that is more a question of how many locos you will be running per channel. Some years ago, I had a TIU issue, so temporarily I had "loops" hooked to a single channel output
Has anyone used an Allen Bradley circuit breaker: 1492-GH100 ?
My personal preference is breakers from Defender Marine or West Marine. I get push button reset breakers which come in 5, 7, & 10 (and higher ratings, and run about $6
This is a Rev G from our modular layout almost 20 years ago. We melted it because we had wired all the layout grounds back through one input and one output terminal. Why the internal trace did not fry, I'll never know. When I rebuilt the power module, I installed a bank of fast blow fuses. I also connected all the grounds on both sides and then installed a heavy gauge wire between them as an extra caution. On the newer TIUs with the channels being split internally, and having heavier traces, the ground precaution is no longer necessary.
Chris
LVHR
@Windy City posted:Regarding your suggestion of having a layout to run both; is the only difference bus wiring vs. star wiring? Are there other considerations I should be aware of?If I have five loops, do I need another TIU?
Thank you to all on this forum.
If you wire star wiring, you're covered for both systems.
How big are the loops? I have two smaller O72 loops on one channel, they get 10's all around. Rule of thumb, you can put 100-150 foot of track on a single channel, maybe more, depending on the quality of the wiring.
Chris, actually, grounds don't have to be run through tiu, but the 4 black outputs must then be connected together and connected to those grounds.
@RJR posted:My personal preference is breakers from Defender Marine or West Marine. I get push button reset breakers which come in 5, 7, & 10 (and higher ratings, and run about $6
Would you please share a link
@gunrunnerjohn posted:If you wire star wiring, you're covered for both systems.
How big are the loops? I have two smaller O72 loops on one channel, they get 10's all around. Rule of thumb, you can put 100-150 foot of track on a single channel, maybe more, depending on the quality of the wiring.
Loops are 50-80 ft of Lionel tubular track. What do you mean “10’s all around”
Will the TIU let get 100% from PS 1 and PS 2 vs. using a TPC 300 ?
Thank you for sharing your experience
10's all around is talking about the DCS signal strength. You could power two of those loops with one TIU channel without issue. I'm driving my 140 foot mainline with one TIU channel, no problems with that one.
When you put the system into signal strength test mode, the engine travels around the track and reports a signal strength every few seconds. That value ranges from 1 through 10, with 10 being the best. From an electrical viewpoint, this is what DCS operators strive for when they build a layout.
Chris
LVHR
Do i get the readout on my Czb remote or only on a MTH controller?
Besides star wiring and a TIU, what else do I need to run PS1-2 with Lionel TMCC/Legacy ?
AFAIK, the readout is only on the MTH remote or WiFi app.
PS1 is strictly conventional, so you can run it with anything that varies the track voltage.
PS2 and 3 require the MTH TIU and their remote or WiFi app on your smart device. It runs independent of TMCC/Legacy.
Chris
LVHR
Windy City:
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=1479737
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=1308063
Note they are available in several amp ratings. Work fine on my layout, always blowing before any fuses (I have redundant protection).
These are thermal circuit breakers, so they won't be nearly as fast as Airpax magnetic circuit breakers if you want the ultimate in circuit protection.
Here's a link to the whole line of AirPax Breakers Suitable for Model Trains from 4A to 10A.
Never saw those before, GRJ. Something new?
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
