Video: NKP 765 at 70 MPH on "The Varsity"

Dieselbob has it right. My reference to "required" concerned the required running speed, not the lack of a diesel.

We never considered using a diesel on these trips because it simply wasn't necessary. It was a short trip with a short train. No need to stretch the coal on this one.

just tack talk

OGR Webmaster posted:

My reference to "required" concerned the required running speed, not the lack of a diesel.

We never considered using a diesel on these trips because it simply wasn't necessary. It was a short trip with a short train. No need to stretch the coal on this one.

OK. Semantics at work. By "that kind of running" I was referring to running without a diesel, not speed, which I hadn't mentioned in my question. Diesel Bob said Metra didn't care whether there was a diesel or not, but I didn't know that. I thought part of the determination was to ensure that the line could be cleared quickly in the event of a mechanical problem.

One other question: Does the steam crew then decide whether to have a diesel along, as in this case, or does the railroad that owns the trackage sometimes make that determination, or does the decisionmaking authority depend on the particular railroad? Do some railroads require a diesel in every case, no matter the distance between water/fuel stops and the track speed required?

toddstrick posted:

 

just tack talk

Interesting. However, note the difference when restricted to 40 MPH, versus allowed to operate in her maximum horse power range on that excursion this past Sunday, June  12.

breezinup posted:

...Does the steam crew then decide whether to have a diesel along, as in this case, or does the railroad that owns the trackage sometimes make that determination, or does the decision making authority depend on the particular railroad? Do some railroads require a diesel in every case, no matter the distance between water/fuel stops and the track speed required?

The steam crew NEVER wants a diesel along! 

The operations analysis is what determines whether we use a diesel.

• What is the trip mileage? Do we have to stretch the coal?
  If we have long, 300+ mile day and we have to do that mileage on one load of coal, we'll need a diesel to stretch the coal mileage.
• What is track speed and can we maintain it without help? On the Horseshoe Curve trips the 765 could have handled the train on the mountain all by herself, but not at track speed, which is 25 mph. With the running time allotted, we could not waste time hammering up that hill for an hour at 10 mph. So we used a diesel to help keep the speed up to 25 mph.

Yes, some railroads require a diesel no matter what. They are the roads that are not as familiar with us as the roads on which we operate on a regular basis. During our first year on Norfolk Southern they required that we have a diesel everywhere we went. However, we were able to establish a record of performance and reliability that showed that a diesel wasn't necessary, so the diesel requirement went away.

To be clear, it is pretty much ONLY Amtrak that "requires" a diesel with any steam operation anymore. The exception being the very recent trips with Milwaukee Road #261, as all their passenger equipment is "self powered", so HEP was not needed, and Amtrak finally admitted that they had a serious shortage of units anyway. I'd hate to count how many times SP 4449 has been required to have an Amtrak diesel as a "helper", only to have it quit loading! Yes, it certainly is nice to have a HEP equipped "SOMETHING" back there providing 480 Volt, three phase electrical power for all the passenger cars, but the Amtrak diesels leave a bit to be desired for "helper service".

toddstrick posted:

just tack talk

Even at 40 MPH, nothing quite beats 765 running on her home turf.  Lord only knows how many times she covered this very ground, especially late in her career making those Fort Wayne-Argos turns.  I'm a spiritual person who believes that all dogs go heaven and even machines can have a soul so to speak.  As crazy as it sounds, I just know that deep down somewhere in those 400 tons of iron and steel, there is some satisfaction in knowing that at almost 73 years old, you're a survivor, and you can STILL get the job done.

Thanks again, Rich and Hot Water. And again, very interesting. I've wondered for a long time what the determining factors were for running diesels behind steam engines on excursion runs.

Wonderful videos,  it was really a thrill to see the 765 at those speeds again....thanks to all who made it happen.

Makes me wish I lived closer to some real steam.  In Texas, we currently have nothing that I know of as the one in Austin is still out being restored/repaired.  I sure it was a blast riding on or behind 765 at those speeds.

This video below is not mine, but the gentleman named Delay In Block Productions filmed this.

This is a FINE WAY to start a Saturday morning, with coffee and cat in lap, at the computer, reading one of the best threads I've found on the OGR Forum in some time.  Lets the world go away for a little while while visiting with the heart.  My thanks to all for their contributions and a special tip of the hat to Rich Melvin for his skill, patience and kindness.  Hot Water's contributions as fact checker and resident technical consultant add flavor.

Enjoy a good Fathers Day weekend and the official beginning of summer on Monday, with the Summer Solstice and a full moon.  Wahoo!

Richard Snipes

OGR Webmaster posted:

Number 90 posted:

That was good.  Our esteemed webmaster had 'er hooked up and picking up speed.  Beautiful!

Thanks, Tom. We had her wound up a little faster than that later in the trip. This is about 70 mph.

15 feet away from a fire breathing, smoke belching, ground shaking,  massive 2-8-4 steam engine passing by at 70 mph with a passenger train. Does get any better than this.....