I have just pre ordered the MTH Premier VO-1000 the Long Island version. This will be my 1st pre order and was ordered through Forum sponser Mario's Trains. Just wondered what everyone else has pre ordered recently.
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As a matter of principle, I have never pre-ordered anything. I refuse to be the train importers' banker. On the other hand, my last two orders for in-stock items at Marios Trains got cancelled a week later when they discovered they were not really in-stock. No apologies, didn't return calls, ignored emails etc. Very Trainz-like. I suppose in our backwards world, if I ordered something Marios doesn't currently have, I might actually get it. However, I'm sure not trusting them with my money way ahead of time.
Nothing
GregR posted:As a matter of principle, I have never pre-ordered anything. I refuse to be the train importers' banker. On the other hand, my last two orders for in-stock items at Marios Trains got cancelled when they discovered they were not really in-stock. So, perhaps in our backwards world, if I ordered something Marios doesn't currently have, I might actually get it?
I always pre order all of my new trains, and with only one exception have never had to put any money down in advance. That happened when I ordered Atlas rolling stock from Charlie Ro, who doesn't usually handle it, and considered it a special order. Had to put 20% down, no big deal. Stuff came in fine, and because it was a big batch, it was kind of nice having a head start on the bill.
Lionel and MTH, no deposits required. I'm not bankrolling anyone. When product ships to me, they charge my card.
Time to make that phone call again, and put in my order for the new MTH catalog.
Big_Boy_4005 posted:
... with only one exception have never had to put any money down in advance. That happened when I ordered Atlas rolling stock from Charlie Ro, who doesn't usually handle it, and considered it a special order. Had to put 20% down, no big deal. ...
Yes... Charlie does require a 20% deposit for Atlas-O items. So it only makes sense to do that if you've got a bunch of other stuff on order with Charlie... so funds can easily be credited/refunded if Atlas-O cancels a product. Truth-be-told... I pre-ordered some Atlas-O well-car containers from Charlie, but that's honestly the last "pre-order with deposit" I would probably ever do in this market. Of course, doing business with Charlie since the 1970's certainly made the comfort factor quite high. But as a general rule... no pre-order deposits -- ESPECIALLY in this insane market.
David
Me too David. It was the well cars. I've been buying from Charlie since the 80's.
I've since discovered Caboose Stop Hobbies in Cedar Falls, IA, and made them my Atlas dealer of choice. Same no deposit policy as Charlie has for Lionel and MTH. The only way to go!
Last year, I pre-order the Atlas SW switcher in the original Rock Island styling, from my local hobby shop. After seeing the Atlas "up-dated" shipping schedule, posted on the OGR 2-Rail SCALE Forum last month, which indicated that the switchers were moved back to "2nd Quarter 2018", I promptly canceled my order!
I tried to pre-order some Marx and Ives stuff once, but couldn't find a website...
I pre-order. Its just easier for me. Order it, and forget it. Pay when it ships.
I last did it for the VL GG1. If 3rd Rail does another SD7/9 run, or does another first generation diesel, I'll probably bite. Atlas O, too.
Norm's O Scale, Caboose Stop, Nicholas Smith.
Jim
Jinkies, I have never pre-ordered anything. Come to think of it very little of what I own was purchased new, mostly track. The secondary market is more to browse through.
Frank
GregR posted:As a matter of principle, I have never pre-ordered anything. I refuse to be the train importers' banker. On the other hand, my last two orders for in-stock items at Marios Trains got cancelled a week later when they discovered they were not really in-stock. No apologies, didn't return calls, ignored emails etc. Very Trainz-like. I suppose in our backwards world, if I ordered something Marios doesn't currently have, I might actually get it. However, I'm sure not trusting them with my money way ahead of time.
No need to be a train importer's banker...a lot of place take pre-orders with no money down.
Pre ordered Christmas Candian Pacific Dash 8 Railking and 4 freight cars that mth is offering. From Legacy trains with a 10% down fee.
As a lifelong retail store manager I understand and respect the need for a deposit on special orders, it shows customer sincerity especially when you only do business via the Internet. I have no stores locally who do pre orders unless paid in full. I'm comfortable with this and that's what's important
Use to do a lot of business at Jim's trains till he closed and we had a great long distance relationship.
The MTH RTR Catalog cleaned me out pretty good.
I've got the MTH Canadian Pacific Christmas cars. I'm still on the fence regarding the engine. I do not need two Dash 8s (already have one) but that is a nice engine....
The "usual" Christmas Boxcar is on order thanks to the more "traditional" paint job from previous years.
The Schitz Plumbing building is also on order.
First pre-order: The infamous F40, still haven't got it back yet. Going on 3 weeks.
Second pre-order: UP Lion Chief Plus SD60M.
Hot Water posted:Last year, I pre-order the Atlas SW switcher in the original Rock Island styling, from my local hobby shop. After seeing the Atlas "up-dated" shipping schedule, posted on the OGR 2-Rail SCALE Forum last month, which indicated that the switchers were moved back to "2nd Quarter 2018", I promptly canceled my order!
Jack, I guess I just don't understand the impatience that some of the people here have over their trains. If I see something I like, I order it, and it shows up when it shows up. I'm guessing that most of us have enough trains in our fleets, that we'll be able to survive until that new piece arrives.
Frankly, I don't even look at the shipping dates when products are announced. They are almost always wrong. I do keep my "ear to the rail" here on the forum to hear when items are on the water, so I know when I should expect to be billed.
There's something to be said for being able to chill and go with the flow in this hobby.
Recently? That is a relative term. In addition, the term "pre-order" has no definite meaning. What is the difference between "order" and "pre-order"?
The last thing(s) I ordered was an ABBA set of Atlas O Western Pacific F3's. That was just over a year ago. May 3, 2016.
BTW, The last time I checked the Delivery date for these have been pushed back 9 more months, 4th Quarter 2017.
What does "trainz-like" mean? I got in something from them and there was no paper in the box...no order slip...shipping voucher or??? I tried to call multiple times, put on hold, and then kicked off. Spoke to them at York....still nada. As for pre-orders,which l hate, for my last floated in months after long forgotten, l have two cars on order from Lionel. This is unusual. I had pre-ordered a few separate sale RPO's from MTH, but saw none of interest in this catalog.
Here's what I have pre-ordered:
- ATSF RSD7 by Atlas Trainman
- ATSF SW9 by Atlas O
- ATSF 2-8-2 by Lionel
- ATSF E8A by Sunset/3rd Rail
- ATSF PA1 by Sunset/3rd Rail (two units)
- ATSF PB1 by Sunset/3rd Rail
Pre-ordered equipment I have received in the last year:
- ATSF Lightweight RPO by Golden Gate Depot
- ATSF Lightweight baggage car by Golden Gate Depot
- ATSF 12 section 1 drawing room heavyweight Pullman sleeper by Golden Gate Depot
- ATSF Fairbanks-Morse H16-44 by Lionel (two units)
- NYC converted troop sleeper express car by Atlas O
Equipment I intend to pre-order:
- ATSF Baldwin VO switcher by Atlas O
I was not asked to pre-pay for any of these engines and cars.
SantaFeJim posted:Recently? That is a relative term. In addition, the term "pre-order" has no definite meaning. What is the difference between "order" and "pre-order"?
Jim, pre-order actually has a specific meaning. It is that window of time between when a product is announced and when the dealer's orders are due into the manufacturer. Dealers offer their best pricing during this period. Dealers combine the pre-orders with additional pieces, usually to make full case lots, that will be inventory for their shelves.
I broke my own rules and pre ordered the Lionel Mogul in Rutland. I also have three Lionel milk cars I've been waiting on for ever.
ive got a real itch to put in a reservation on the Lionel NYC mikado due in august. Yes, breaking my rule on no more pre-orders
Big_Boy_4005 posted:SantaFeJim posted:Recently? That is a relative term. In addition, the term "pre-order" has no definite meaning. What is the difference between "order" and "pre-order"?
Jim, pre-order actually has a specific meaning. It is that window of time between when a product is announced and when the dealer's orders are due into the manufacturer. Dealers offer their best pricing during this period. Dealers combine the pre-orders with additional pieces, usually to make full case lots, that will be inventory for their shelves.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I had pre ordered about a week ago from MR MUFFINs my MTH Premier Reading & Northern Heavy Pacific with all 10 Passenger cars at a great price. Can't wait to see them.
Big_Boy_4005 posted:Hot Water posted:Last year, I pre-order the Atlas SW switcher in the original Rock Island styling, from my local hobby shop. After seeing the Atlas "up-dated" shipping schedule, posted on the OGR 2-Rail SCALE Forum last month, which indicated that the switchers were moved back to "2nd Quarter 2018", I promptly canceled my order!
Jack, I guess I just don't understand the impatience that some of the people here have over their trains. If I see something I like, I order it, and it shows up when it shows up. I'm guessing that most of us have enough trains in our fleets, that we'll be able to survive until that new piece arrives.
Frankly, I don't even look at the shipping dates when products are announced. They are almost always wrong. I do keep my "ear to the rail" here on the forum to hear when items are on the water, so I know when I should expect to be billed.
There's something to be said for being able to chill and go with the flow in this hobby.
In my case it was MUCH MORE than "being impatient", concerning my feelings toward Atlas. Their lack of responses to direct eMails from some friends of mine, plus the "quietly revised" shipping schedule, with no comment nor explanations what so ever, was the final straw, for me.
I realize now, well after the fact, that Jerry Kimble is no longer with Atlas, but even then, SOMEBODY could have said SOMETHING, concerning just what the he&& was/is going on. Now, along those same lines, I am more than accustomed to waiting long periods of time for certain items from Sunset/3rd Rail, i.e. the Southern Pacific Daylight passenger train set (about 3 years if I remember), however Scott Mann kept/keeps EVERYONE fully informed of any & all of his manufacturing problems and delays! No other O-Scale manufacture, whether 3-Rail or 2-Rail, does THAT.
Big_Boy_4005 posted:SantaFeJim posted:Recently? That is a relative term. In addition, the term "pre-order" has no definite meaning. What is the difference between "order" and "pre-order"?
... Dealers offer their best pricing during this period. ...
Until they have some nice sales where you can save even more $$$$$!!!! That's why I seldom pre-order all that much anymore -- except perhaps from Sunset / GGD.
David
A pair of the Sunset PA's in D&H only because that is one of my favorite locomotives and I sold my R.O.W. set some years ago and have regretted it.
Am curious about these newer models with the single motor and fine detailing. Rarely have ever pre ordered anything in the past.
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Interesting read... If it weren't for the pre-order phenomenon, we wouldn't be able to risk it all to make unique and eclectic models for interested customers.
As for "being the bank" for an importer, we don't ask for deposits. We have our own bank loans set up to handle the finances needed to support such projects. But we do ask customers to promise to buy when the models arrive. Seems to be a good formula.
But beware of the importer asking for 30% or 50% deposits at reservation. No doubt they are using your funds to secure an order at a factory. Not at all a safe investment, but one we spend a lot of time and effort to control and keep safe. Yes, we do have to give factories a deposit to start projects. In the past they could use a Letter of Credit to borrow from their own bank. But the IMF bailouts and banking industry changes prevents the small factories from using this process. They need cash to make these models.
Delays occur more from the lack of reservations than anything else. Some projects linger on our list of too long because we just don't have enough reserved to support production. Like the factory, we can't produce models at a loss for very long. We don't have investors, or investment groups pumping money into our endevour, but we do have sales and a loyal following to carry us through the in-between times.
So I will take this opportunity to thank those that do, and invite those that might take a chance with us at a very small risk. THANK YOU.
Even with all the checks and balances we go through, there are those that reserve and choose to ignore the calls to buy. About 10% of the reservers do this, and I am tempted each time to post the names and phone numbers of those that dupe us into making models for them without the guts to call or email that they aren't going to follow through. SHAME ON YOU... people who cheat the process. There... I said it.
Well some people die and can't tell us they are no longer able to buy. Some have unfortunate events that prevent them from following through. Totally understandable. But some just play a game with us. It's a cruel game since we do everything we can to make the model they ordered, correct, tested, counted, shipped, received, packed ready to go.
What they don't know is that our computer systems keeps their mis-behavior listed forever. They can come back 5 years later and try to play us, and we just keep there reservations restricted on stand-by. That means, we won't produce the model for them, but if there is one left over they are welcome to buy it... but they never do. Customers are creatures of habit. Always repeating the same bad purchasing behavior. We got your number, bad customer. hahaha.
But luckily, within about 3 months we usually do sell the models left by these short sighted hobbiests.
We realize very well that this is only a hobby for our customers but it is serious business for us and our factory and vendors. It's a very delicate process to bring these models in for you. But I wouldn't want to be doing anything else. I love my work.
Cheers,
Enjoy your hobby.
Scott Mann
I normally don't preorder either, unless it's something that I really want. Right now I have the Lionel Rutland 2-6-0 and the Lionel Reading Hopper 3-pack on preorder. There may be some MTH Reading and Northern passenger cars added to that list.
The Lionel PRR E-8's that are expected this fall. This is my first pre-order with any manufacturer in years, primarily because I've been happy with my fleet as-is.
Scott,
you were always the exemption to my pre order rule in past years. Problem is you haven't done any NYC steam in years
Rocky Mountaineer posted:Big_Boy_4005 posted:SantaFeJim posted:Recently? That is a relative term. In addition, the term "pre-order" has no definite meaning. What is the difference between "order" and "pre-order"?
... Dealers offer their best pricing during this period. ...
Until they have some nice sales where you can save even more $$$$$!!!!
David
Ah yes, the overstock blow out about a year later. The only problem with that is selection. You may not be able to get what you want. Isn't that the exact point of Lionel's BTO? Reducing over stocking and thus the need to dump pieces.
Hot Water posted:Big_Boy_4005 posted:Hot Water posted:Last year, I pre-order the Atlas SW switcher in the original Rock Island styling, from my local hobby shop. After seeing the Atlas "up-dated" shipping schedule, posted on the OGR 2-Rail SCALE Forum last month, which indicated that the switchers were moved back to "2nd Quarter 2018", I promptly canceled my order!
Jack, I guess I just don't understand the impatience that some of the people here have over their trains. If I see something I like, I order it, and it shows up when it shows up. I'm guessing that most of us have enough trains in our fleets, that we'll be able to survive until that new piece arrives.
Frankly, I don't even look at the shipping dates when products are announced. They are almost always wrong. I do keep my "ear to the rail" here on the forum to hear when items are on the water, so I know when I should expect to be billed.
There's something to be said for being able to chill and go with the flow in this hobby.
In my case it was MUCH MORE than "being impatient", concerning my feelings toward Atlas. Their lack of responses to direct eMails from some friends of mine, plus the "quietly revised" shipping schedule, with no comment nor explanations what so ever, was the final straw, for me.
I realize now, well after the fact, that Jerry Kimble is no longer with Atlas, but even then, SOMEBODY could have said SOMETHING, concerning just what the he&& was/is going on. Now, along those same lines, I am more than accustomed to waiting long periods of time for certain items from Sunset/3rd Rail, i.e. the Southern Pacific Daylight passenger train set (about 3 years if I remember), however Scott Mann kept/keeps EVERYONE fully informed of any & all of his manufacturing problems and delays! No other O-Scale manufacture, whether 3-Rail or 2-Rail, does THAT.
I just worry that some of you are "cutting off your noses to spite your face". Getting upset with the manufacturer over these issues, isn't really productive for anyone involved. It's a LOSE, LOSE, LOSE proposition.
The punishment that comes from your cancellation may or may not hurt the manufacturer. It can hurt your dealer by potentially sticking them with excess stock that they committed to buy on your behalf, if they can't get out of it in time.
Finally, you don't get a train that you had originally wanted badly enough to place the order. We just have to learn not to get angry about "where's my train?!'
Does anyone really think that Atlas doesn't want to deliver the products? The loss of key personnel seems to have dealt their customer service a blow. I wouldn't know of such things, because I have no expectations, beyond eventually getting some nice trains. I wonder if the HO and N scale guys have this much trouble with Atlas?
I know that there are quite a few people upset with Atlas. It's kind of hard to miss all the topics. But take just a minute to put yourself in their shoes.
My policy is that I do not pre-order anything including trains. If a company is legitimate there is no need to ask for money in advance. If I see something that I like at the right price I'll buy, if not I walk. Trains are not a necessity and the market is flooded with everything that you can ask for to build a great layout.
One item. Pre-ordered it 20 minutes after catalog was out. The Lionel PW-inspired Alco FA set with the green passenger cars.
Can't wait to see it!
I'm sure some of those high end trains are beautiful but have no intention of spending $1,200 - or whatever it is - on a toy train.
I've ordered three Atlas Green Lackawanna passenger cars I might order a couple of the EL MW boxcars from Atlas as well.
Then I forget about them till an email arrives telling me they are in and ready to ship to West Australia, it's great day when that happens, even better when they arrive! Roo.
sdmann posted:Interesting read... If it weren't for the pre-order phenomenon, we wouldn't be able to risk it all to make unique and eclectic models for interested customers.
...
Scott, you have earned the respect of many serious model train enthusiasts... And since life is a two-way street, you have earned our trust when it comes to pre-ordering newly announced models. It's not rocket science, but not all of the importers "get it". 
Always a pleasure to read your posts here on the forum. 
David
I am in a quandary, I have three things to buy and all require a 4 digit payment. one is a steamer. I guess all I really need to know is what should be 2 or 3 that are not train related..( like I can afford them.) so I guess I should say the Reading and Northern 4-6-2, even know the real one is a light pacific.
I ordered the Lionel O wannabe tinplate set. As with most of my preorders, went to Pats Trains, no down payment required. Glad I did it, the following week, it showed as sold out on Lionel s site. I really did not expect this one to do well.
Steve
I don't buy trains anymore.... Did you see this post Kathy?
I do not consider my pre-orders as recent, but since I have yet to receive them, I'll list them here;
Lionel Legacy GT Mogul
Atlas O CN SW-8
I didn't even know that deposits are sometimes being made for pre-orders. I sure never paid one ... O or HO.
Lionel K4's, PRR & NYC Mikado's as well as one of the S2 electrics.
