What other track is compatible with O-27?

Gargraves is the same height as 027. A set of transition pins and you're good to go.

BoilerMaker,

Thx, but which Gargraves?  Any of the 3 rail stuff?

Mark 027 track does mate with Lionel 027 Track.  The pins look different but are the same size and the ties are also the same height.

John,

Thx.  Is there another kind of Marx track?  Or did they make only O-27?

Any Gargraves work.......GG sells pins to make it super easy.

Thx Dave, I have been looking and I do not see a Gargraves flex track with plastic ties unfortunately.  But knowing any of their stuff can mate with O-27 is good - just have to pay attention to appearance.

Helmut,

Don't know if anybody mentioned it to you but with Gargraves track all 3 rails are separated electrically. If a piece of Lionel or K-line track is used with Gargraves then the second outside rail will have power.

Gargraves flex track is about the best type of flex track to use if trying for 027 profile track. Just add adapter pins for Gargraves to 027 track from Gargraves, adapter pins also sold by Ross Custom switches with Gargraves name on the package. Gargraves also has insulated pins for use with their track, I have some for my layout.

Lee Fritz

Lee,

Thx.  I do not need power on any rails - BPRC all the way!  Do you know if Gargraves makes flex track with plastic ties?  I have not found any yet - only wooden ties.

Helmut,

A trick that you can do to make any long section of Gargraves straight(plastic or wooden) track into flex track, cut the little connectors between the cross ties, as this lets the cross ties move, under the track and it should move enough to bend.

Lee Fritz

Aha!  Thank you, good little tidbit.

hlfritz posted:

John,

Thx.  Is there another kind of Marx track?  Or did they make only O-27?

I'm only aware of the 027 track: 3 rail and 2 rail for battery power trains both with black rectangle ties.

John Graser posted:

hlfritz posted:

John,

Thx.  Is there another kind of Marx track?  Or did they make only O-27?

I'm only aware of the 027 track: 3 rail and 2 rail for battery power trains both with black rectangle ties.

Just so there isn't any confusion, I want to mention that Marx made 3 rail O34 track with the same profile rail and ties used on their O27 track.  As mentioned above, Marx track is compatible with Lionel O27 track. Marx made 3 rail O27 switches in all metal and plastic base versions, and 3 rail O34 in the plastic base version only.  Because of the design of the plastic base switch frog, they don't work very well.  The metal switches work fine.

As far as Marx 2 rail track is concerned, they made O27 two rail tubular track for windup and battery trains, along with matching O27 switches and 90 degree crossings.  Marx also made all plastic switches and 90 degree crossings that would mate to the tubular O27 2 rail track.  Finally, they also made all plastic O27 track that wasn't compatible with the metal track.

Maybe O-27 type of track is being confused with the diameter of the curves?  I.e. are not 42" and 54" diameter curves not available in O-27 type track?  Or does that make them O-42 and O-54 type track?

Is Marx track O-27 type with 34" diameter curves (maybe other curves as well?)?  Or is it O-34 type track?

From what I have gathered it is all O-27 type track with various diameter curves.  I can definitely be wrong about my understanding though!

Also, is the proper designation O-27 or 027?

I agree... it is confusing.

Strictly speaking, the numbers in O27 (or any other number) refers to the diameter of the curve.  However, since Lionel only makes O27 with the smaller rail and ties (no O27 curves with the larger rail), most people refer to track made with the smaller rail and ties as O27 track.  Regardless, most people refer to the Marx 34" diameter curve track as O34, even though it is made with the O27 profile rail and ties.  It is more confusing with Lionel's O42 and O54 track, since it is made in one version using the larger O gauge rail and ties, and another version with the smaller O27 profile rail and ties.  That is why I tend to refer to my mainline as Lionel O42, but specify that it is the version with the O27 type rail.

I don't think the hyphen makes any difference, most O gauge guys will know what you mean by O42 or O-42.

Most people refer to our trains as O gauge, hence the "O" in O27.  But to make it more confusing, it was originally "0" since it was a size that was smaller than the established Marklin train sizes of the day, which were No. 1, No. 2, et al.

I posted my clarification in case someone wasn't familiar with Marx track.  After all, Lionel O27 and O31 are different sizes, so it might be confusing for someone not familiar with Marx that the O27 and O34 use the same size of rail.

I hope that helps... perhaps others will be able to shed some more light on the subject, too.

James,

Is there no such thing as O27 type track with 42" and 54" curves? 

I did not think 042 and O54 are "types" of track, rather diameters of curves which exist in both O27 AND O (or O31 if you prefer) type track?

K-Line made lots of 027 track with many curve sizes. There must be a lot of it still around.

Jim 1939,

Thx.  Did K-line also make O?  or only O27?  (if you know that is).

Helmut lionel did make 42" and 54" curves in O27 track.

Lionel Does/Did? make 42" and 54" curves in O27. I have purchased both types recently from a forum sponsor. Now if I could only find a 22.5 degree crossover to go with it..

Yea they also made O but offered much more in 027.

Jim 1939 posted:

K-Line made lots of 027 track with many curve sizes. There must be a lot of it still around.

K-Line O-27 production list:

K-0202 27" Curve
K-0204 One-half Curve
K-0212 42" Curve
K-0222 54" Curve
K-0226 72" Curve
K-0232 Regular Straight
K-0233 INSULATED Straight
K-0234 One-Half Straight
K-0235 Remote Uncoupling Section
K-0252 Double Straight
K-0256 Extra Long Straight
K-0261 90 Degree Crossover
K-0263 27" Manual Switch, left
K-0264 27" Manual Switch, right
K-0265 27" Remote Switch, left
K-0266 27" Remote Switch, right
K-0273 42" Manual Switch, left
K-0274 42" Manual Switch, right
K-0275 42" Remote Switch, left
K-0276 42" Remote Switch, right
K-0291 Insulator Pins (dozen)
K-0292 SOLID STEEL Pins (dozen)

Super K O-27:

K-0516 Super K 42" Curve
K-0517 Super K 1/2 Curve
K-0535 Super K Remote Uncoupling Section
K-0536 Super K Straight
K-0537 Super K 1/2 Straight
K-0538 Super K Power Track

hlfritz posted:

James,

Is there no such thing as O27 type track with 42" and 54" curves? 

I did not think 042 and O54 are "types" of track, rather diameters of curves which exist in both O27 AND O (or O31 if you prefer) type track?

Here is what I typed in my last post:  "It is more confusing with Lionel's O42 and O54 track, since it is made in one version using the larger O gauge rail and ties, and another version with the smaller O27 profile rail and ties. "

Hence the confusion.  Yes, Lionel makes O42 and O54 curves with the smaller rail and ties (same as the O27 curves) and also makes O42 and O54 curves using the larger rail and ties.  That is why when discussing my layout, I tell people that it uses Lionel O42 curves on the mainline, but make sure to specify that it is the version using the smaller rail.

I agree that O42 and O54 aren't "types" of track.  I was strictly referring to them as diameters of curves.

I don't want to make this harder than it really is.  All I wanted to do in my initial post was to make it clear that the Marx O34 curves use the same rail and ties as their O27 curves.  I also believe that it is important when shopping for track to be aware of two things: 1) What diameter of curve is needed (O27, O31, O34, O42, etc.) and 2) What size of rail is needed (small, O27 profile or large "O" profile).

I hope that clears up any confusion...

Yessir.

Rob,

Thx for that.  Do you have the lists for other manufacturers that made O27 track as well?

What is Super K?  Something to match Super O?

hlfritz posted:

What is Super K?  Something to match Super O?

Super K is plastic tie track based on the Kusan/AMT/KMT 2 rail track tooling and K-Line made it available in black tie "O", white tie "O", and brown tie "O-27" rail profiles and several diameters.

"SuperSnap" is "O" Super K sans track pins and instead, molded plastic connectors and spring type electrical contacts. This is also the track that was made by Aristo/RMT/Ready Made Trains.

The Lionel & Marx track has been pretty well covered above. If you want to get a little more exotic, Sakai also made a "O-27" track system similar to Marx but did not offer it in 34".

Now O27 means O gauge, and the 27 indicates a 27" radius between the center rails. So there is no such animal as O27 54", or O27 72". Lionel and Marx O27 track back in the day were made by the same manufacturer. 

@trainman48 posted:

Now O27 means O gauge, and the 27 indicates a 27" radius between the center rails. So there is no such animal as O27 54", or O27 72". Lionel and Marx O27 track back in the day were made by the same manufacturer. 

No, it is not 27" dia. center to center. It's outer diameter at the ties.

They made large curves at 0-27 height and tube gauge... so Dr. Dolittle wins unless you're nit picking exact dia. but 50-ish 72-ish...yep.

Not made by the same specs nor assembled by some other mfg.  All Marx is of a lighter gauge metal and plated differently.  

There are two factors to 0-27 beyond the 27"O.D.. The rail code + tie height total, and pin diameter.  The curve dia. is irrelevant to fitting two pieces of track, but code/hgt and pin dia. are a must (code is the height of a rail from "foot" to "rail head"/top (included is the "web"/upright)

Lionel 0-27 ties vary. Turned up edges like full-O in dark brown, brown, woodgrain. Rectangle (like Marx but slightly heavier gauge or harder steel) came in black, dark brown, brown, grey, black, unpainted (or clearcoated?)

Others might exist too.

Marx pins are 0-27 tube size. Blunt edges and thin ring for tube staking. Some are longer. 

Lionels 0-27 are bullet tipped, with a fatter staking ring. Some brown tie track has hollow pins, noted by a seam on the pins length. These don't conduct well and if rusty can get red hot. The rust from the inside out too.  I at least replace the center pin with a solid one as it does twice the electrcal work at most joints.

Note: If two pieces of track are aligned well and screwed in place, no pins is a possibility.

Yup, it can get mighty cornfusin' for folk.

FWIW...

Lionel:

Average rail height used in their low profile tubular track (so-called "027") measures about .270". Combined tie/rail height is about .395".

Marx:

Average rail height for Marx 3-rail track is about .280" with the combined tie/rail height at around .398" or so.

I do not have any "O" sized rail profile track pieces to measure.

IMHO, it might help if "027" was referred to as "low profile tubular" ("LPT"?) rail to stop the confusion created by calling it "027", said use in which we are intending to refer to all "low profile tubular" track products.

In the meantime:

"No, what you want is 027 track in 054, but that track won't match O gauge 054 and they don't make 027 in O gauge either, 027 is only available in 027 track, unless you want 042 or 054, then you can get that in 027 also."

See? Clear as mud, eh?

Andre

@trainman48 posted:

Now O27 means O gauge, and the 27 indicates a 27" radius between the center rails.

 O-27 is 12.37" radius.

@trainman48 posted:

So there is no such animal as O27 54", or O27 72".

 Yes, there is. Lionel made -42 & -54.  Marx made -34.  K-Line made -27, -42, -54, & -72.

@trainman48 posted:

Lionel and Marx O27 track back in the day were made by the same manufacturer. 

 Can you cite a source for this?  The Lionel plant in NJ made O-27, The Marx plant in PA made O-27 & O-34.

To avoid confusion, I've found it best to think of 3-rail tubular track first in terms of their heights. I believe O27 is 7/16" in height and O is 11/16" in height. The 27 in O27 referred originally to Lionel's limiting the curves to 27" in diameter. That limitation didn't last long. As others have pointed out, O27 low-profile, 3-rail tubular track has since become available in 34", 42", 54", and 72" curves from various manufacturers.

Looks like I've been misinformed after all these years. The "informant" that told me the two companies used the same manufacturer supposedly worked there at one time, and located in Norwich, CT. Hmmmm. And if I remember correctly, he also mentioned he owned a bridge in Brooklyn, NY.

Yeah, so originally the 27" was considered the diameter, which is what I run for the most part, along with some 34" diameter on the outside turns. And that was the terminology I was referring to. Is the 34 Marx still considered the diameter, or did they change that too?

@bptBill posted:

 Now if I could only find a 22.5 degree crossover to go with it..

The only 3 possibilities for a 22.5 degree crossover in 027 profile would be Gargraves, Ross & Atlas O. How well they mate up with 027 profile is something others would have to answer as I have no experience mating them.

Or you could build your own.

Williams makes straights & curves in 027 profile with extra ties. They look good & seem to be of a good quality.

To me, K Line track seems to be of a higher quality then its Lionel contemporaries.

To avoid confusion, I PREFER to use GarGraves flex track and Ross switches whenever possible.  Been readily available for years.  You can build a WHOLE layout with this stuff and not have to worry about any compatibility.  And it looks good, too! 

YRLMV.  [Your Rail Lengths (mileage) May Vary].  

@trainman48 posted:

Yeah, so originally the 27" was considered the diameter, which is what I run for the most part, along with some 34" diameter on the outside turns. And that was the terminology I was referring to. Is the 34 Marx still considered the diameter, or did they change that too?

I don't know that it also an O.D on Marx 34" for sure. I don't know if I've handled Marx prewar track for sure; but I think so and it was the same as postwar.

If you handle both brands of 0-27 for a bit you can tell the difference pretty quickly. One of each joined, the marx would pop a rail first if twisted.

@Mixed Freight posted:

To avoid confusion, I PREFER to use GarGraves flex track and Ross switches whenever possible.  Been readily available for years.  You can build a WHOLE layout with this stuff and not have to worry about any compatibility.  And it looks good, too! 

YRLMV.  [Your Rail Lengths (mileage) May Vary].  

Agreed.  I started with a lot of Lionel 0-27 42 inch radius track  and straights but anything new I buy is Gargraves, Ross and definitely Ross Custom Switches.  All of these are easily meshed and fully compatible.  Steve at Ross first explained this to me at a train show years ago and I have never wavered since.  The pins from Gargraves easily connect to Lionel 0-27 track and Ross track and switches use these -- and they even have a plastic pin to make isolated sections.  Awesome products and surprisingly affordable compared to what's out there.  I made the early mistake of buying a bunch of Lionel 042 switches instead of Ross.  I replaced them with Ross  years ago and I no longer worry about having switches on critical parts of my layout because they always work flawlessly and you can crawl your trains through them.

 Can the Gargraves flex track bend enough to make a 30" radius? I would like to convert  my Marx & Lionel O27 with this type for the great looks of it, but I do have some tight turns to replace.

@trainman48 posted:

 Can the Gargraves flex track bend enough to make a 30" radius?

O-27 is 12.37" radius, and I have bent GarGraves to less than that, so 30" (O-60) is a piece of cake.

Helmut,

Three weeks ago, I had exactly the same questions about O27 track as you do, and the Members gave me excellent info.

Just wanted to say, I have just about completed my track layout, and the Marx O27 type track fits beautifully with the Lionel 027 type track.    My layout is fairly big, so on the ends, I wanted broader smoother curves than the 27 inch curves.

Marx use to make 027 track with a 34 inch diameter.  In other words, O34.    Apparently, not many people used it, but there are a fair number of old pieces out there, in different used conditions..

To tell you what a wonderful board this is, a Member sent me a complete circle and a half of Marx O34, for FREE!.  I just paid him the small shipping cost.

The connecting pins on the Marx track are a little bit different,  (straight round rod of metal, instead of one with knobs cut in each end), but if you just lightly sand them to get the old rust off, and push hard, they go right into the Lionel track holes.

IWhy put Gargraves track into the mix?  You don't need it for a layout.

Best, 

Mannyrock

Above laming reported the height of O27 track was .270 inches and O gauge track is higher.  I have a 4 inch section of rail road track that is 6 inches high but do not know the what code it is.  This section is a 1/4 in/ft (O scale) height of 1/8 of an inch.  Thus the O27 track at .270 inches high is a 1/4 in/ft (O scale) height of 12 inches.

Since O27 track height is lower than O track, this is a rare instance where O27 gauge is closer to scale size than O gauge.

Charlie