Easy, there. Sounds like he is not aware that O Scale can be had in 2-rail, with excellent scale models. You are correct that the track gauge is off a bit, but even the most discerning modelers (except for me) seem to be able to overlook the extra scale 3 1/2" of track gauge.
We should just tell him to look a bit further before giving up.
If it ain't 1:1 sacle AND generating revenue, it's a toy.
Easy, there. Sounds like he is not aware that O Scale can be had in 2-rail, with excellent scale models. You are correct that the track gauge is off a bit, but even the most discerning modelers (except for me) seem to be able to overlook the extra scale 3 1/2" of track gauge.
We should just tell him to look a bit further before giving up.
Woah guys - lots of assumptions going on - I'm a librarian. Trust that I've done plenty of research. HO doesn't appeal to me. Its too small for me to really enjoy the models. Yes - it offers scale detailed options and a more scale environment - its not what I want. Period. G is just too big for much of a layout. Scale O is what it is - limited options at high cost - no thank you.
Yes I'm aware o gauge in Europe is 1:43 and in the US its semi 1:48ish.
That said, US O gauge appears to me to have been moving for ten years towards a more scale appearance - not perfect, but very much acceptable. The plastics lower the cost to an affordable level and even in modern equipment, there is substantial variety - unfortunately, things like 60s cigarband paint or stainless warbonnet finishes are ignored while locos are stuffed full of "extra" electronics. To me, here is where a potential market is missed.
And yes, I agree - if it ain't 1:1, its a toy. Some toys appeal to different people. I like porter, your welcome to a lager or an IPA.
Super 7 and you are correct - I did not read every word of any of the recent lengthy posts. I should have kept my nose out of it.
I'm willing to suffer the limitations of a third rail track - and even high level trucks - but it'd be nice to have accurate paint, pilot details, and some added detailing -
I was actually triggering off this clause and what I thought was a rather strong answer to it. It sort of sounded like the author was not aware that more accurate models are indeed available - at a price - to fit 5 foot gauge 2-rail track. Some of the Key models are unmatched in any other scale.
Most Santa Fe F7s - including all freight from about 1954 to their junking in Texas - bore the Blue with a yellow cigar band - which has only been accurately done once (3rd rail is releasing a second in May). The bookend paint showed up in the mid-60s on non-F models and the Yellowbonnet over Blue didn't arrive until 1972. That's a period of nearly 20 years that no one has done accurately for one of the four largest roads (which unfortunately, it also happens to be my favorite color scheme). The Warbonnet at least is sorta kinda accurate on many F3 and F7 models - minus the side panels - and many manufactures have done a Yellowbonnet - which were hardly seen outside of Texas or Topeka. So why no cigarband?
Secondly, some scale options are available - at a price. Because of that, Gen X and Millennials interested in O scale or O gauge trains done to scale dimensions or at least having scale attributes don't have a good entry point into the hobby.
But never fear, I'm in it for the long haul. I'm building a 36' x 22' conventional O gauge layout in my basement.
But never fear, I'm in it for the long haul. I'm building a 36' x 22' conventional O gauge layout in my basement.
Let us see some photos as you make progress, as you sound like the kind of guy to do an attractive and thoroughly accurate project. 
But never fear, I'm in it for the long haul. I'm building a 36' x 22' conventional O gauge layout in my basement.
Let us see some photos as you make progress, as you sound like the kind of guy to do an attractive and thoroughly accurate project.
Thanks! I'm just getting started - right now I'm in the benchwork stage - but you can follow my progress here: https://ogrforum.com/topic/first-layout
Back to the Santa Fe - it'd be nice if someone would just do an actual Cigarband without a goofy tether.
In a couple hours at the work bench you can modify those tethers by running them through the doors/diaphragms, and no one will even notice them 
We got what we got in this size of model railroading, so sometimes we have to do a few modifications to make them look better. These TMCC F3s sure did NOT look like this when they came out of the box.
Back to the Santa Fe - it'd be nice if someone would just do an actual Cigarband without a goofy tether.
In a couple hours at the work bench you can modify those tethers by running them through the doors/diaphragms, and no one will even notice them
We got what we got in this size of model railroading, so sometimes we have to do a few modifications to make them look better. These TMCC F3s sure did NOT look like this when they came out of the box.
Which is what I plan to do - unless someone offers something I can jump on in-between. 
Running the A's independently as switchers would be a big plus. I might just have to hope Atlas makes them in the coming years and grab them if they hit my price range.
In another thread, it seems Atlas O will be plating their upcoming F7's.
https://ogrforum.com/t...-for-the-santa-fe-f7
Jacobpaul81 - You ought to take a look at that thread. A lot of us have high hopes.
Back to the Santa Fe - it'd be nice if someone would just do an actual Cigarband without a goofy tether.
In a couple hours at the work bench you can modify those tethers by running them through the doors/diaphragms, and no one will even notice them
I would try that modification on the latest production MTH "F units", i.e. the PS-3 versions. The various switches are now all mounted in the rear doors of their "F units".
Back to the Santa Fe - it'd be nice if someone would just do an actual Cigarband without a goofy tether.
In a couple hours at the work bench you can modify those tethers by running them through the doors/diaphragms, and no one will even notice them
I would try that modification on the latest production MTH "F units", i.e. the PS-3 versions. The various switches are now all mounted in the rear doors of their "F units".
I wonder how easy it would be to gut the the PS2 version of these and make them conventional... research time!
as a young person who really wants to delve into O gauge, I'm disappointed in what I've found...
At 33, I'm a baby as far as this adult hobby is concerned
Welcome to the O gauge under 50 club.
Some of the best model railroaders out there in any scale today are guys in their 30s and 40s modeling in O. Check out the work of Rich Battista, Norm Charbonneau, CSX Al and Dave Hikel. They have all posted plenty of photos to this forum as well as elsewhere on the web.
What is out there and what you have found so far may be different things. You seem to know about the MTH 20-20055 F7s. The MTH product locator feature shows a dealer with the -1 version in stock. Have you clicked on the "Find it locally" tab and called the retailer?
http://www.mthtrains.com/20-20055-1
the period that really excites me are the nostalgic years I connect with - those 10 years right before I was born
OK, so you are interested in modeling the Santa Fe in the 1970s. You have GP9s, GP30s, GP35s, GP38s, U25Bs, SD40s, SD45s and more to chose from. MTH lists 7 pages of premier line diesels, many in paint schemes from the 1970s. Add the MTH Railking Scale, Lionel Standard O and Atlas Master Line and Trainman diesels and you have plenty to chose from.
I can't have F7 switchers when they have to be tethered
So you want to run F7A units separately? You can already to that with the lead unit. If you want to run the trailing A unit on its own you can carefully remove the slave board and install a Proto2 or Proto3 kit.
I will say that Lionel's recent scale offerings - the '89 auto rack and '86 boxcars are going in the right direction. That's just the kind of item that interests me.
Great! Add in the Lionel and Atlas 60 foot box cars, the PacCar mechanical reefers from Lionel and Weaver, plus covered hoppers, 40 and 50 foot boxcars, flat cars, gondolas, etc. from all the manufacturers and I bet you can find more than enough era appropriate models to jam any freight yard. 
We have more than 200 different plastic, aluminum and diecast freight car models available to us today in O scale. Many fit in on a 70s era layout. To get a better handle on what is out there you might want to check out the O Scale Freight Car Guide series.
https://ogrforum.com/t...le-freight-car-guide
as a young person who really wants to delve into O gauge, I'm disappointed in what I've found...
At 33, I'm a baby as far as this adult hobby is concerned
Welcome to the O gauge under 50 club.
Some of the best model railroaders out there in any scale today are guys in their 30s and 40s modeling in O. Check out the work of Rich Battista, Norm Charbonneau, CSX Al and Dave Hikel. They have all posted plenty of photos to this forum as well as elsewhere on the web.
What is out there and what you have found so far may be different things. You seem to know about the MTH 20-20055 F7s. The MTH product locator feature shows a dealer with the -1 version in stock. Have you clicked on the "Find it locally" tab and called the retailer?
http://www.mthtrains.com/20-20055-1
the period that really excites me are the nostalgic years I connect with - those 10 years right before I was born
OK, so you are interested in modeling the Santa Fe in the 1970s. You have GP9s, GP30s, GP35s, GP38s, U25Bs, SD40s, SD45s and more to chose from. MTH lists 7 pages of premier line diesels, many in paint schemes from the 1970s. Add the MTH Railking Scale, Lionel Standard O and Atlas Master Line and Trainman diesels and you have plenty to chose from.
I can't have F7 switchers when they have to be tethered
So you want to run F7A units separately? You can already to that with the lead unit. If you want to run the trailing A unit on its own you can carefully remove the slave board and install a Proto2 or Proto3 kit.
I will say that Lionel's recent scale offerings - the '89 auto rack and '86 boxcars are going in the right direction. That's just the kind of item that interests me.
Great! Add in the Lionel and Atlas 60 foot box cars, the PacCar mechanical reefers from Lionel and Weaver, plus covered hoppers, 40 and 50 foot boxcars, flat cars, gondolas, etc. from all the manufacturers and I bet you can find more than enough era appropriate models to jam any freight yard.
We have more than 200 different plastic, aluminum and diecast freight car models available to us today in O scale. Many fit in on a 70s era layout. To get a better handle on what is out there you might want to check out the O Scale Freight Car Guide series.
https://ogrforum.com/t...le-freight-car-guide
Thanks Ted - this is all very helpful info! Much appreciated.
I was wondering if there was a way to eliminate the tether. That is very good to know. The ABA is nice, but having multiple single As fits more in for personal reasons.
I have a relative encyclopedia of equipment at my disposal - my dad held the Topeka yard job for much of his career with the road. That's also why the cigarband F7 is so important for my own railroad - that's the first engine dad ran in 1972. If the tether can be eliminated, I'll look towards adding those in the very near future and doing a little modification.
Along with the Junky CF7s, Dad says the most common units he was on were the EMDs - the SD45 and SD40-2. That said, as the yard man in Topeka - everything was game. One of my biggest difficulties has been identifying these units in a close to scale offering at a price point my budget can work with - there's a lot I'm impressed with - but a lot is electronics heavy - unfortunately I'm more about the look than added features - which is where my trouble is - I'm happy with the performance of Williams options - but desire the look of MTH, Lionel, Atlas, etc...
I've definitely gone through the freight guide and checked out all the offerings - I'm glad that's out there as it's been most helpful. Thank you! I've identified several atlas and Lionel cars I'd like to add down the line that look to be on par with Lionel's auto offerings.
And I've also been following Norm's work closely - that's the kind of realism I'm working towards with my own layout.
Thanks again!
Lionel has yet to accurately produce a Santa Fe freight unit. (The F3 from a few years back was nice but not accurate.)
s.
Not sure what you found wrong with the Legacy version, but I've always thought these older Lionel freight units were pretty good copies of the original....and Lionel made these back in the 90s! Sure, one's a F-7 and one's a F-3, but there's really not that much difference showing. Someone could glue some strips of silver mesh over the vents if they really wanted to, but it's certainly close enough for me.
Obviously it's not the highly detailed Legacy version, but I swapped the shells on mine and put them on newer TMCC/Railsounds equipped chassis (which also have finished interiors, crew, directional lights, electrocouplers, etc.), and it makes a nice set of engines.
I've definitely gone through the freight guide and checked out all the offerings - I'm glad that's out there as it's been most helpful. Thank you! I've identified several atlas and Lionel cars I'd like to add down the line that look to be on par with Lionel's auto offerings.
And I've also been following Norm's work closely - that's the kind of realism I'm working towards with my own layout.
It is good to hear that you have begun to find resources for O scale modeling. This forum is a great place.
there's a lot I'm impressed with - but a lot is electronics heavy - unfortunately I'm more about the look than added features - which is where my trouble is - I'm happy with the performance of Williams options - but desire the look of MTH, Lionel, Atlas, etc...
Lionel and MTH used to offer more conventional locomotives but have backed off due to lack of demand. Having locomotives come with integrated sound and control packages really is the best deal in the end. If you are into yard switching you will probably want the level of control that comes with DCS and Legacy. They have the best speed control available in any scale.
If you want a scale look you may want to get MTH 2 rail diesels with 3/2 trucks and fixed pilots. Just install Kadees, 3 rail axles and center rail rollers and you will have a 3 rail scale locomotive.
If you are on a budget and are OK with swinging pilots check out Railking switchers. They are scale sized and perform as well as a premier diesel.
The Atlas end cab switchers are also well regarded.
Lionel has yet to accurately produce a Santa Fe freight unit. (The F3 from a few years back was nice but not accurate.)
s.
Not sure what you found wrong with the Legacy version, but I've always thought these older Lionel freight units were pretty good copies of the original....and Lionel made these back in the 90s! Sure, one's a F-7 and one's a F-3, but there's really not that much difference showing. Someone could glue some strips of silver mesh over the vents if they really wanted to, but it's certainly close enough for me.
Obviously it's not the highly detailed Legacy version, but I swapped the shells on mine and put them on newer TMCC/Railsounds equipped chassis (which also have finished interiors, crew, directional lights, electrocouplers, etc.), and it makes a nice set of engines.
Yea - those are nice - they look great in the big book of Lionel - but those are not cigar band - that paint scheme was over-painted in 1953 - its a version of the cat whiskers theme that appeared of FTS, F3s, and the first runs of F7s before Santa Fe repainted them - my grandfather ran those out of Argentine. This is the scheme were talking about that most Santa Fe F7s had from 1953 til they were converted in the mid 70s:
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