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I need O-72 curves. It has become a big engine game for steam.

 

 

EDIT: Seeing where this thread has gone, I want to make it clear I am not complaining, just observing. I like steam and it seems a lot of what is coming out these days needs O-72. If I want to run some of these gems, I need those curves.

Last edited by robertjohndavis
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I'm with Southwest - this is a great time to save money.  Both catalogs are a bit of a let down.  With Lionel, I do see the transition point.  Makes sense to coast, and save some splash for the new guy - or gal.  Time for Lionel to find a tycoon for the helm.  Someone who gets it with trains.  Now just how many do you suppose there are, who coincidentally have a Harvard MBA, know sales and marketing, and have the stones to run ops?  Yeah.

 

I've learned that I have dialed in pretty well my understanding of what I how these companies work as far as the stuff I want goes.  Things that I expected that came to pass are:

  • Lionel's offerings - two or three more big Legacy locos all at near-Vision prices, but nothing interesting in smaller sizes, and no true Vision this time, and a modest but significant  new diesel effort (new E-9 body castings), etc., along with a lot of attention in areas I care nothing about.  In particular, I was certain there would be no new Vision locos - I pulled a few folk's chains on another thread by saying I would buy them all even though they had not been announced which really mystified them - why would I say I was gonna buy when I don't know what I was saying I would buy yet?: easy to do when I was positive they would not have any this time.  
  • Something a bit quirky but gotta-have-it from MTH (propane turbine) but still only individual locos, not an entire product line that turns me on, like Lionel
  • Nothing much new from Bachmann including, lamentably, no new EZ-Street stuff.  (This is a company just treading water and biding its time for some reason right now, in my opinion).
Originally Posted by Tiffany:

hello guys and gals...........

 

One thing i learned from latest catalogs from all makes (lionel,MTH,Atlas,K-line) is HIGH prices, low grade electronics that fail often, no spare parts and worse- made in china.

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

I think Apple has stuff made in China and it works...wonder why...

Rusty, you are right. I waited and waited for both the new catalogs with high hopes only to have them dashed by the repetitiveness of the product or of the railroad. I realize that they have to appeal to the masses, but how many times do we need to see SD90's, The Texas Special, War Bonnets, GG1's and NYC passenger trains? How about some short lines from different parts of the country?

All of the catalogs "pulled me back in again" for only a few times.  Then it was much of the "same old same old." 

 What I've learned is this:

New "tactic" by some to re-make post war stuff

A lot of repeat "modern" stuff

Many of the items have to be pre-ordered with a long wait

High prices

Many of the items may be cancelled and never produced.

 

That being said...just like when you were a kid...back in the day...and the Christmas editions of the Sears, Montgomery Ward and JC Penney's catalogs came...they are fun and exciting to look at.  Matt

Who's complaining? I was spending too much money on trains anyway! I'm not at all unhappy that there isn't three grand of "gotta have," like there was when MTH came out with the 4-unit Milwaukee Road boxcabs and I couldn't decide which color scheme so I bought both,plus some freight cars. I'm grateful to Lionel and MTH for not placing any similar temptations in my path this time. 
 
Originally Posted by N.Q.D.Y.:

I have learned that every time a new catalogue is published, no matter how many great items are in it, there will be a whole bunch of people just itching to tear it to pieces and complain about just about anything portrayed in it. 

What I'm learning from the last few catalogs is that I'm not a target market for Lionel.  I'd absolutely buy 2-4 conventional locomotives a year at $150-$300 each.

 

Steam power in the new Lionel catalog ranges from about $500 to $1300, and diesel power about $500 to $1000.  As a small business owner, I'm surprised to once again see no options for what appears to be a very real piece of market--those wanting to upgrade a starter loco, for example.  I've mentioned this price gap before and been told "just buy Williams"--which doesn't work because the options aren't there for models and road names.

 

Not really a complaint, I just don't get the lack of conventional.  Is it just an effort to push everyone to control systems?

Originally Posted by Simon Winter:
Originally Posted by N.Q.D.Y.:

I have learned that every time a new catalogue is published, no matter how many great items are in it, there will be a whole bunch of people just itching to tear it to pieces and complain about just about anything portrayed in it. 

You are 100% correct!

 

Simon

I guess people learn different things from the catalogs, don't they.  I don't think people are trying to "tear them to pieces" or chronically complain.  They are being honest and realistic.  I try to take off my rose colored glasses when I look at any catalog.  I enjoy bowsing them and seeing the content for what it is...based on my experience in this hobby and buying train items based on any of the catalogs.  The thread indirectly asks what these catalogs have taught them.  People are answering.  It's very simple, not malicious.

Originally Posted by boin106:
Originally Posted by Simon Winter:
Originally Posted by N.Q.D.Y.:

I have learned that every time a new catalogue is published, no matter how many great items are in it, there will be a whole bunch of people just itching to tear it to pieces and complain about just about anything portrayed in it. 

You are 100% correct!

 

Simon

I guess people learn different things from the catalogs, don't they.  I don't think people are trying to "tear them to pieces" or chronically complain.  They are being honest and realistic.  I try to take off my rose colored glasses when I look at any catalog.  I enjoy bowsing them and seeing the content for what it is...based on my experience in this hobby and buying train items based on any of the catalogs.  The thread indirectly asks what these catalogs have taught them.  People are answering.  It's very simple, not malicious.

I wasn't actually referring to this thread with my comment. I was simply commenting that whenever a new catalogue is issued, by almost any manufacturer, it is followed by a plethora of posts on the forum complaining about it. I guess that it is the nature of the beast. 

I am just happy that we are lucky enough to have several big companies who are still making new products and putting out catalogs for our hobby. I think I would much rather see the offerings in yesterdays catalogs than an announcement that Lionel, MTH, Williams or Atlas O were closing up shop.

 

Jay in Ottawa 

A favourite quote from Kelly's Heroes is appropriate here - Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Originally Posted by ams:

Not really a complaint, I just don't get the lack of conventional.  Is it just an effort to push everyone to control systems?

If you think about it from a mass-produced, assembly line perspective it actually makes sense.


It's much more cost-effective to do a run of train product -X that is assembled the same way with the same parts (including electronic innards) than it is to do two different flavors of the same product.

 

You have an order to build & assemble x-number of runs of a GP40 with command control, maybe a smaller order of the same model except conventional-equipped.  You either have to do a production run of one then start on the next one, or you it in one single run with a divergence line set up to accommodate assembling one with the command-equipped electronics and one for conventional.  Whatever savings in labor costs by conventional being simpler to install & wire can essentially be lost with the additional overhead of having to stock and assemble both.  So the logistics involved to handle both is a little more complex (and costly).

 

As the companies design the command-equipped engines to also be able to run in conventional, it's understandable that they would prefer to do it just one way.  If they were able to do that then it could potentially bring their own production costs down.

 
I need O-72 curves. It has become a big engine game for steam.

Here my story about planning for curves:

 

When I built my layout 4 - 5 years ago, I intentionally stayed with curves smaller than 0-72, so that I wouldn't be tempted to buy any of the big steam engines. 

 

Then I found my dream set of passenger cars (SGL's Reading cars) and they require 0-72 curves.

 

Now, when I build my extension to my layout, I will be pulling up the O-63 and O-54 curves and replacing them with O-80 and O-72 curves.

 

Jim

Originally Posted by N.Q.D.Y.:

I have learned that every time a new catalogue is published, no matter how many great items are in it, there will be a whole bunch of people just itching to tear it to pieces and complain about just about anything portrayed in it. 

It's because for weeks, folks go on and on, speculating on what the next catalog will bring.  Some seem to feel the catalog should be created in their own desires and when it doesn't happen, then the complaints and disappointment reign.

 

Rusty

Originally Posted by ams:

What I'm learning from the last few catalogs is that I'm not a target market for Lionel.  I'd absolutely buy 2-4 conventional locomotives a year at $150-$300 each.

 

Steam power in the new Lionel catalog ranges from about $500 to $1300, and diesel power about $500 to $1000.  As a small business owner, I'm surprised to once again see no options for what appears to be a very real piece of market--those wanting to upgrade a starter loco, for example.  I've mentioned this price gap before and been told "just buy Williams"--which doesn't work because the options aren't there for models and road names.

 

Not really a complaint, I just don't get the lack of conventional.  Is it just an effort to push everyone to control systems?

I'm in the same boat.  I'd like to move up a bit from my docksiders and Beeps but I'm not prepared to jump to these prices.  Plus a lot of these locomotives are just too big for my layout.  The RTR catalog has plenty of nice sets but really not much to choose from if I just want to buy a locomotive.

Not so hard guys;

Imperial Railking is good looking equipment and Even the Challenger or Big Boy will run on the smaller radii track, just looks funny on the tightest curves so hide those in scenery and use bigger ones in front.

Also using a larger curve to ease into and out of the corner makes them look much better.

Originally Posted by scale rail:

I'm sorry that some were disappointed but it just reminds me of how it was in the 60's and 70's. Hardly anything new, ever. Just re-dues of the same engines with different road names. And.....there was only Lionel.

I think for some of us we are living through the "Golden Age" and don't even know it. 

Don


Don, I agree with you, from this 3-railer's perspective I've never had it so good.  I also like the re-cataloging of items as it sometimes allows me to pick up some things I didn't feel I could afford the first time around.  Bo    

I don't have any expectations or real desires when it comes to catalogs, so I don't get upset or disappointed when they come out. If I see something I like, I'll buy it.

 

I don't need any engines or passenger cars. I only buy scale and modern. So, Lionel and MTH catalogs are reduced to about 4 or 5 pages each, and half of that doesn't interest me.

 

There's always something, but not much, which is fine by me.

Ditto to Big Boy 4005.  You can't please everyone, no matter how hard it looks like they are trying:

Too much scale....not enough conventional...

Nothing new...too much European...

Too expensive...where are all the $2400 Vision steamers?...

 

Every opinion here has an equal and opposite.  And you know what they say about opinions, just like elbow's and xxxholes, everyone's got at least one.

 

Welcome to the new era of catalogs, folks!  

 

10 to 15, even 20 years ago... for folks blessed with the financial means, they were able to buy a good chunk of items catalog'd.  Nowadays, you'd need close to unlimited funds to do the same... and even if you had unlimited funds, you probably wouldn't WANT to purchase everything 'cause there's so much stuff in the catalog.  

 

Today... with prices being what they are... even if you're only interested in something like all of the auto-racks or all of the TankTrain rolling stock, you'll still spend over $1K. So a few items here... and a few items there... and you're now spending $2,500.  Oh yes... and just one nicely detailed steam locomotive (with no enhanced steam features anymore) and you're now spending close to $4K on items iN this catalog... And that's just after the first pass though the catalog.  

 

See how it works now??? 

 

David

Originally Posted by RockyMountaineer:

Welcome to the new era of catalogs, folks!  

 

10 to 15, even 20 years ago... for folks blessed with the financial means, they were able to buy a good chunk of items catalog'd.  Nowadays, you'd need close to unlimited funds to do the same... and even if you had unlimited funds, you probably wouldn't WANT to purchase everything 'cause there's so much stuff in the catalog.  

 

Today... with prices being what they are... even if you're only interested in something like all of the auto-racks or all of the TankTrain rolling stock, you'll still spend over $1K. So a few items here... and a few items there... and you're now spending $2,500.  Oh yes... and just one nicely detailed steam locomotive (with no enhanced steam features anymore) and you're now spending close to $4K on items iN this catalog... And that's just after the first pass though the catalog.  

 

See how it works now??? 

 

David

Exactly David, it boggles my mind that Lionel has a 194 page catalog. Back in the 70's and 80's, they were like 20 - 30 pages.

 

Just buying all the tank cars, the single autoracks, 3 flat cars, and 2 two packs of hoppers, the list price is $1970 (for 24 cars). My MTH total was a little lighter, coming in at $1300 list (for 23 cars). Early buy will help a little.

 

Then there's always eBay if that isn't enough.

My thoughts about the recent catalog are "head scratchers", not really complaints--just things I'm curious about. From conversations at shows and among train friends, I know I'm not alone in feeling a little alienated from the current focus of the brand. I'd venture a guess that upward of 98% of the locomotives produced over the last 100+ years are conventional control. So it's a head scratcher that there are no catalog offerings for those that have been a part of building that market decade after decade--and have amassed many dozens (or hundreds) of conventional units in their personal collections. It's not a matter of having or not having the money, as some like to suggest. I actually put aside $2K for this catalog, but nothing there is oriented toward the conventional buyer, so with the exception of a couple of pieces of rolling stock, it's all going to other pursuits. My conventional Chessie SD-40-2 from the 2006 catalog (6-28245, MSRP $265) is a work of art, and I'd happily buy four or five similarly priced and beautifully deco'd units a year, were they available for purchase. Money is in hand, Lionel--just looking for a reason to hand it over.
Originally Posted by VADarthDad:

Ditto to Big Boy 4005.  You can't please everyone, no matter how hard it looks like they are trying:

 

Every opinion here has an equal and opposite.  

Absolutely true!  There's no way possible that these manufacturers can cater to every individual's interests and wants.  They do their best by putting out massive catalogs with a variety of offerings, but even then there are some folks who will gripe.

 

I, like some (many?) here, focus on specific road names, and I just accept the fact that since both roads rank nowhere near the major lines most often modeled--NYC, Pennsy, Santa Fe, NS, etc.--I have to take a "wait and see" attitude with each new catalog.  Sometimes I'm rewarded, and sometimes I just have to take a pass for a year or more.  It's not a big deal, and certainly not worth fretting about because, over time, I have already been "rewarded" with more than enough goodies to maintain and grow my interest in the hobby.

 

This time, for example, I have listed seven items that I will be preordering from the new MTH catalog--not too shabby for a guy whose interests are focused on lesser-modeled roads.  In 2014 or 2015 I may not see anything, but that's okay because perhaps others will be similarly "rewarded" in those years.  

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