Bessemer and Lake Erie 643 on Ebay.

Recently, an ad was put up on EBay to sell the loco for $500k (or around that). Hasn’t been proven fake or real, but the guys over at RYPN, are yet again, investigating the matter. Just want to make others aware, as none of us want to see her, the diesel, and the NW watercar hit the scrap heap! Link to the forum below.

http://www.rypn.org/forums/vie...t=43348&start=30

Since you asked for my opinion, Here it is.

In my opinion, the owner will die at some future date, there will be some legal wrangling with his estate, and the locomotive will be moved to a location where it can be cosmetically restored and displayed.  This may not happen for years.

It will eventually scrapped on site.

Rusty

Scrap at probably less than $100/ton.  Even that would probably be subject to expensive asbestos removal.  IMO.    

Mike CT posted:

Scrap at probably less than $100/ton.  Even that would probably be subject to expensive asbestos removal.  IMO.    

The asbestos should have been removed a long time ago.  If it was still on the locomotive, it would probably be wrapped in plastic and the site sealed off.

Asbestos hasn't been used in locomotive preservation for decades.

Rusty

The eBay link is proven to be fake. I'd love to see this engine preserved but only time will tell what happens to 643.

Most likely it’ll be cut up right where it sits. The chance to economically move it and restore or operate it passed long ago.

There is no reason for its demise other than the current owners death grip on it.  It will out last him. Hopefully, what is left can be restored or donated to a museum... its a hurry up wait and see scenario.

Even if that Ebay listing had been real, there are one too many zeros in the price. At roughly 500 tons and $100 ton scrap price, at best it's worth $50,000. It has no intrinsic value beyond what it's worth as scrap.

Remember that this steam locomotive is not a good candidate for an excursion engine. It is a heavy, ponderous, drag-era freight engine that has likely never been run faster than 30-35 mph.

I also think it will eventually be scrapped where it sits. The current owner simply will not listen to reason and thinks it is worth many times more than it actually is. He turned down two legitimate offers from the Age of Steam Roundhouse to purchase the locomotive and move it to their site. When he passes on and it falls to his relatives and family to do something with it, the easiest thing for them to do is sell it for scrap and cut it up where it sits. Sad, but true.

My crystal ball is not operating correctly right now, so I have no opinion on what WILL happen.

I do have an opinion about what SHOULD happen, however.  While I cannot argue numbers with the business folks, as a historian, I will claim that the engine has value beyond--and different from--its monetary value.  There is such a thing as historical value.  I am not talking about running in excursion service, which I accept as being impractical.  It is impractical to run much better suited engines in excursion service right now, at least (see Frisco 1522).

But that the engine is ill-suited for restoration to running condition does not mean that it holds no value to us as part of our history.  Whether it should win a competition for monies to be used for its preservation as an artifact ('stuffed and mounted," if you will, but much of our history is stuffed and mounted--no one is flying the Spirit of St. Louis or the Apollo 11 CM these days) is an open question, but I think its claim to a slice of the pie is at least as valid as claims for many other artifacts.

Unfortunately, all such debate is currently moot given the position of the owner.  We can only hope it will survive long enough for the possibility to appear.

Even of you got it out, it takes $$$ to get it restored even for display, and $$$ for keeping it up.  And there is not enough $$$ to keep up what we have now.....

Hopefully it will be saved for display and not scrapped, once the current owner has passed.

  Sounds alot like CP 5361 drama that has fallen off the radar the past few months?

  Al

It would be a good candidate for the RR Museum of Pennsylvania; add a little variety beyond just PRR equipment. With an improving economy, perhaps the state of PA could scrape up a few dollars?  The combination of Strasburg RR and the State RR Museum of PA probably brings in a fair amount of tourist income to that general area.   Yes, I am dreaming, and the attendants are coming for me, with some kind of jacket with a lot of belts.  

The option to save this thing passed along time ago. When the Age of Steam Roundhouse made their offers, it could have easily moved by rail dead-in-tow to their site. However, CSX removed the switch to that siding a long time ago, so there is no rail connection to the 643 now. It is isolated and CSX is not about to disrupt freight traffic on their primary East Coast to Chicago main line to put that switch back in.

I don't think that monster could be trucked out of McKees Rocks. "The Rocks" is an old Pennsylvania industrial town. The streets are narrow, the hills are steep and it would have to cross a bridge that is not rated for anywhere near what this thing weighs.

One of the rumors is Glen Campbell, 643's owner, was given 60 days to remove the locomotive and other items because the property was sold. 

I got a huge laugh at the "appraised 1,000,000" on the Ebay listing.  I agree, AOS was this locomotive's last hope.  I'd expect it to be scrapped.

I guess it's time for me to chip in...

As much as I don't want to say it, and as much as I know many don't want to hear it, I think the locomotive might just end up getting cut up. Since I can't see CSX moving the locomotive to a new home by rail, let alone putting that switch back in, and for the reasons Rich stated above, this is the most likely outcome for no. 643. The best thing anyone can do at this point is pay a visit to the Rocks and say your final goodbyes.

I hope a miracle happens...but only time will tell.

Changed the title of this old topic to reflect this bizarre new development which likely signals the end of the 643's sad saga. 

At the end of the day; it should never have left Greenville.

BessemerSam posted:

At the end of the day; it should never have left Greenville.

Indeed.

Rich Melvin posted:

Even if that Ebay listing had been real, there are one too many zeros in the price. At roughly 500 tons and $100 ton scrap price, at best it's worth $50,000. It has no intrinsic value beyond what it's worth as scrap.

Remember that this steam locomotive is not a good candidate for an excursion engine. It is a heavy, ponderous, drag-era freight engine that has likely never been run faster than 30-35 mph.

I also think it will eventually be scrapped where it sits. The current owner simply will not listen to reason and thinks it is worth many times more than it actually is. He turned down two legitimate offers from the Age of Steam Roundhouse to purchase the locomotive and move it to their site. When he passes on and it falls to his relatives and family to do something with it, the easiest thing for them to do is sell it for scrap and cut it up where it sits. Sad, but true.

I have been to The Age Of Steam Roundhouse and that is exactly where this locomotive belongs!

Chief Bob (Retired)

Yep and they said the Big Boy would never run again! Only time will tell on this one. I have seen engines disassembled and shipped via truck... not a cheap solution, but its been done.  This would be a perfect static restoration for the Pennsylvania RR Museum. 

Besides insn't there a spot were the NKP 757 was sitting that the 643 could nest at? 

Only time and money will tell...

J Daddy posted:

Yep and they said the Big Boy would never run again! Only time will tell on this one.

 

 

The Big Boy didn't have the ownership issues the 643 has.  If and when the 643 winds up in probate, that's yet another pail of snakes.

BTW: the 643 has a Facebook page. The last post was in 2015, the first post was in 2010 and no activity in between.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

J Daddy posted:

Yep and they said the Big Boy would never run again! Only time will tell on this one.

 

 

The Big Boy didn't have the ownership issues the 643 has.  If and when the 643 winds up in probate, that's yet another pail of snakes.

BTW: the 643 has a Facebook page. The last post was in 2015, the first post was in 2010 and no activity in between.

Rusty

Actually the Big Boy was donated and had to be replaced... and moved... it had its own pail of snakes.... 

the 643 could be sold at auction... it just will be a different tragedy or swan song... 

There is a shortline whose rails pass nearby . . . .

palallin posted:

There is a shortline whose rails pass nearby . . . .

Granted, I know nothing about the load limit on the P&OC's bridge nearby, but I suspect it is not enough to handle 643. Plus, the engine would have to be lifted from ground level up an embankment to the P&OC tracks. In my uneducated opinion, marginally more feasible than trucking the engine out of McKees Rocks, but only marginally, unfortunately. 

J Daddy posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

J Daddy posted:

Yep and they said the Big Boy would never run again! Only time will tell on this one.

 

 

The Big Boy didn't have the ownership issues the 643 has.  If and when the 643 winds up in probate, that's yet another pail of snakes.

BTW: the 643 has a Facebook page. The last post was in 2015, the first post was in 2010 and no activity in between.

Rusty

Actually the Big Boy was donated and had to be replaced... and moved... it had its own pail of snakes.... 

the 643 could be sold at auction... it just will be a different tragedy or swan song... 

UP gave the group in LA an ex-MP SD40-2, and a bay window caboose.  Also I think the BB was to visit LA for a fundraiser in the future? Passenger special?

J Daddy posted:

Yep and they said the Big Boy would never run again! Only time will tell on this one. I have seen engines disassembled and shipped via truck... not a cheap solution, but its been done.  This would be a perfect static restoration for the Pennsylvania RR Museum. 

Besides insn't there a spot were the NKP 757 was sitting that the 643 could nest at? 

Only time and money will tell...

 

 

“PRR railroad museum” is not to be confused With the RR museum of PA. RRMPA is where 757 came from and is also in Strasburg. The “PRR railroad museum” is actually the Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona. The RRMPA got rid of 757 because it supposedly didn’t fit in, and nor will a B&LE Texas. As much as I’d love to see it come out here to us folks around Strasburg, she would have a higher chance of going to the Altoona Museum than RRMPA. 

The Facebook page for this locomotive confirmed yesterday that the engine is for sale and the engine will be evicted in July. Hopefully someone steps up but it seems less than hopeful at this point. 

Maxrailroad posted:

The Facebook page for this locomotive confirmed yesterday that the engine is for sale and the engine will be evicted in July. Hopefully someone steps up but it seems less than hopeful at this point. 

To my knowledge, that post has since been taken down. I truly wonder if this was really a hoax from the beginning. If Mr. Campbell was that serious in selling why would he post it on Ebay? It's not like some "Joe Schmo" is going to know what to do with it...

PennsyPride94 posted:

Maxrailroad posted:

The Facebook page for this locomotive confirmed yesterday that the engine is for sale and the engine will be evicted in July. Hopefully someone steps up but it seems less than hopeful at this point. 

To my knowledge, that post has since been taken down. I truly wonder if this was really a hoax from the beginning. If Mr. Campbell was that serious in selling why would he post it on Ebay? It's not like some "Joe Schmo" is going to know what to do with it...

Huh, the plot thickens...