Where art thou, newest Lionel 21" passenger cars ???

I called to purchase the Southern Pacific set and was told February 24, 2018 was the dealer arrival date.  I hope they made the support post for the roof vents bigger. Several of my Wabash, C&O and NYC Empire State had broken roof vents.  Lionel had to replace the entire body shell to fix a broken roof vent on several of my cars.  No vent parts were ordered on the first run.

I have deposits sitting at dealers for the UP, SP and Pennsylvania cars.  Should I be getting interest on my  ten percent deposits?

John Rowlen posted:

I called to purchase the Southern Pacific set and was told February 24, 2018 was the dealer arrival date.  I hope they made the support post for the roof vents bigger. Several of my Wabash, C&O and NYC Empire State had broken roof vents.  Lionel had to replace the entire body shell to fix a broken roof vent on several of my cars.  No vent parts were ordered on the first run.

I have deposits sitting at dealers for the UP, SP and Pennsylvania cars.  Should I be getting interest on my  ten percent deposits?

Thanks. Well, that explains it (the absence of photos) although now I'm totally confused as to why Lionel said at the start of this month on this forum that the three sets I mentioned were "here," which I thought meant going out to dealers. A delay of six weeks from then to the date you mention is just incredible.

And you are right about the roof vents - had the same problem on my Texas Special cars.

Interest? It's cold comfort but even after this delay it would not amount to much in the current financial climate. But unless Lionel produce some really special cars in this run the whole saga really will leave a bad taste in the mouth.

I was just on CR website, the newest arrivals were listed as in stock.

We got a huge shipment from Lionel today of SP, Amtrak, and NYC ESE. 21' passenger cars.

Bruk posted:

We got a huge shipment from Lionel today of SP, Amtrak, and NYC ESE. 21' passenger cars.

The plot thickens.

Surely you'll open one and have a look for photo purposes?

Hancock52 posted:

Bruk posted:

We got a huge shipment from Lionel today of SP, Amtrak, and NYC ESE. 21' passenger cars.

The plot thickens.

Surely you'll open one and have a look for photo purposes?

I did not open any. We got a lot of the 4 pack SP sets and 2 pack add-Ons. We were missing quite a few items I heard later on the pallet. I did not check the shipping list to see for my self.

Bruk posted:

I did not open any. We got a lot of the 4 pack SP sets and 2 pack add-Ons. We were missing quite a few items I heard later on the pallet. I did not check the shipping list to see for my self.

Too bad no picture but if the shipment was short that might explain the delay in these items being sent out as Lionel might have got less than they expected too and had to allocate stock among dealers. In any case, the saga continues.

I received a shipping notice from Charles Ro about something arriving this coming Thursday.  I think the only backorder I have with them right now is the SP passenger cars.  I am counting the days.

Charles Ro is showing on their website the Amtrak, SP, and NYC ESE passenger cars have just arrived.  

Neal Jeter

I sure would like to see photo 

clem k posted:

I sure would like to see photo 

Same here but hopefully it won't be long now before someone gives us a look.

I have nothing coming in this first batch and I think it will be at least two months until the UP Excursion sets arrive (and SSDiner), which is what I am waiting for. FWIW Charles Ro shows these and the UP Theater Car arriving 10 April.

I would like to get the Amtrak version,   only if they  are NOT high water cars.

wonder how much trouble to lower ?

Clem the trucks were retooled to bring them down considerably from the first release. That is why I am waiting to see how they look... if the look great I am ordering the new UP 21 in Challenger passenger set too.

J Daddy posted:

Clem the trucks were retooled to bring them down considerably from the first release. That is why I am waiting to see how they look... if the look great I am ordering the new UP 21 in Challenger passenger set too.

Well, now you've gone and done it; I'd made a mental note to skip the Challenger cars but just had a closer look at the catalog after thinking about your comment.

This revealed some things that might be interesting while we wait and see what the current shipment of the 21" cars look like. Also it's an excuse to post some photos for possible comparison purposes.

Here's a rough copy of the 2018 catalog page for the Challenger cars:

The thing that slightly jumped out at me in the illustration is that it shows what are (for want of a better word) bellows-type diaphragms between the cars and centered at the end of each car. Now I know better than to rely on Lionel catalog illustrations for accuracy and this one is pretty plainly not representative of any detailed plans because none of the cars is named and I can't even make out road numbers.

But if you look back at the 2016 illustration for the UP Excursion car sets actually there's no diaphragm detail at all, which made me assume at the time that Lionel was going to use the full-width diaphragms of the original 21" ABS cars issue that goes with the close coupling mechanism:

Not that it matters too much to me but I know which is prototypical (the first illustration). However it would matter if you wanted to combine the sets and they do indeed have different details in this respect and possibly different coupling mechanisms. I can't believe that there will be a difference but we won't know until somebody shows us a sample of the cars now shipping.

This also made me look again at what I already have in the way of UP passenger cars and here's an example of two dome cars:

The bottom one is what I think is one of Lionel's last 18" aluminum UP cars; the top one from an MTH DAP set. Both were issued several years back and have diaphragms in the center of each end. The photo doesn't do either of them justice.

The other thing in the 2018 catalog that belatedly caught my eye is that at around p. 46 some other 21" cars are listed as having passenger figures (!) although that's not included in the Challenger cars description. There's also a StationSounds full-length dome car, which I assume will have dining car announcements. There's been no fanfare about this although I think it's completely new - unfortunately not in a RR I model.  

Hancock52 posted:

J Daddy posted:

Clem the trucks were retooled to bring them down considerably from the first release. That is why I am waiting to see how they look... if the look great I am ordering the new UP 21 in Challenger passenger set too.

The thing that slightly jumped out at me in the illustration is that it shows what are (for want of a better word) bellows-type diaphragms between the cars and centered at the end of each car. Now I know better than to rely on Lionel catalog illustrations for accuracy and this one is pretty plainly not representative of any detailed plans because none of the cars is named and I can't even make out road numbers.

Not that it matters too much to me but I know which is prototypical (the first illustration). However it would matter if you wanted to combine the sets and they do indeed have different details in this respect and possibly different coupling mechanisms. I can't believe that there will be a difference but we won't know until somebody shows us a sample of the cars now shipping.

I plan on emailing ran and dave on this and asking for more information.  I would actually like to combine the sets for a more full length Excursion consist if possible but I find it frustrating that no Road numbers or car details are listed.  I think they should at least provide us with what car #'s or names are included in each pack.   Unless they aren't sure what they are giving us lol.

jeremy ferrell posted:

 

 

I plan on emailing ran and dave on this and asking for more information.  I would actually like to combine the sets for a more full length Excursion consist if possible but I find it frustrating that no Road numbers or car details are listed.  I think they should at least provide us with what car #'s or names are included in each pack.   Unless they aren't sure what they are giving us lol.

 

I thought about contacting Lionel's "Talk To Us" email, which in the past has always provided a reliable answer, including (to Lionel's great credit) when I asked about which UP dining car is being modeled for the Excursion StationSounds model, but on the points of detail that concern me I think I'd prefer to see what's actually come off the assembly line. 

On reflection, for the Challenger cars I think it is safe to assume that they will use the same tooling as for the Excursion Train sets and that the coupling/diaphragm mechanisms will be identical. But it would be nice to know.

Hancock52 posted:

jeremy ferrell posted:

 

 

I plan on emailing ran and dave on this and asking for more information.  I would actually like to combine the sets for a more full length Excursion consist if possible but I find it frustrating that no Road numbers or car details are listed.  I think they should at least provide us with what car #'s or names are included in each pack.   Unless they aren't sure what they are giving us lol.

 

I thought about contacting Lionel's "Talk To Us" email, which in the past has always provided a reliable answer, including (to Lionel's great credit) when I asked about which UP dining car is being modeled for the Excursion StationSounds model, but on the points of detail that concern me I think I'd prefer to see what's actually come off the assembly line. 

On reflection, for the Challenger cars I think it is safe to assume that they will use the same tooling as for the Excursion Train sets and that the coupling/diaphragm mechanisms will be identical. But it would be nice to know.

very much agreed.   

Maybe they're waiting for all of them to arrive so they can be shipped together.

A day or two ago,  one of our club members received his 7 car set of the new Lionel 21' Amtrak passenger cars(4 car set,  2 car set,  stationsounds diner).  Before anyone asks,  I don't have any pictures.   Today while our club was set up at a small local train show,  we played around with the stationsounds diner to see how it worked.   First on the bottom of the car,  there is the program/run switch,   the lighting on/off switch,  and the max/normal lighting brightness switch.   Using the Legacy Cab 2 remote(which is all we used today),  you must first assign the car a number with the switch in program mode,  then slide the switch to the rum position.   Then after accessing the info screen,  scroll through until the accessory screen appears,  then scroll until the passenger car screen appears and choose that option.   Once all that is set up and the track is powered up,  we addressed the car using the id number that we gave it.   The numbers in the touch screen area then change to a specific group of icons for the stationsounds car.   There are different icons to play different dialogs,  depending whether the car is stationary or moving.   When pressing the station icon while stationary,  there are passenger station sounds/announcements including ours that announced the boarding of the Silver Meteor.   Once moving,  pressing other icons announced departure,  dining opening/closing,  cocktails,  snacks,  and next stops.   Also,  the clickety-clack and wheel squeal is also heard when the car is moving.   We didn't to get to go through all the icons,  but it was a pretty neat car.   This car also sits lower on its trucks and doesn't have the "high water pants" look.

Nick

I thought that the third switch you mention is new to me, but I just looked at my TX Special SSD from the first run of these cars and lo and behold, there it is. But this is not to do with lighting; it controls sound as per the manual that came with the car (and which I read before discovering that mine had arrived DOA but it was fixed by Lionel, that being long ago in the era of Mike R.). This is what the manual says about that switch:

Photo's please

HANCOCK52,

Sorry about my mistake on the purpose of the max/min switch.   Our club member forgot to bring the instruction manual with him yesterday,  so we ad libbed the best we could(I'm amazed we got the car working as well as we did!).    I'm glad we all didn't have our senior moments at the same time.   After doing a little more reading (in the instruction manual!),  we also forgot to set up the car using the train link.   You are right,  the sounds are fun to play with.

Nick

machinist posted:

HANCOCK52,

Sorry about my mistake on the purpose of the max/min switch.   Our club member forgot to bring the instruction manual with him yesterday,  so we ad libbed the best we could(I'm amazed we got the car working as well as we did!).  

Nick

No worries but I got curious about this setting and put my formerly DOA Texas Special diner on the track to test it out.

It's kind of an odd setting which really derives from the fact that these cars now have some of the "Freightsounds" used in the sound-equipped reefers and tank cars - not dialogue but wheel sounds and the like. The "MIN" setting will mute the wheel clatter sound but not the "Bump" and "Grind" features (see p. 23 of the manual), which I suppose is just as well. I really don't see much use for the setting as it's designed for multiple Freightsounds units and you can control the main diner sounds from a CAB2 remote in any event.

I must take this opportunity to mention that THERE ARE STILL NO PHOTOS of the second run 21" ABS cars and somebody somewhere must have some by now.

I'll try to post mine tonight when I get home.  Just received them (SP - 7 cars) Yesterday.

Video of SP cars:

Nice work, thanks!  The cars do appear to ride lower than the "high water" original issue. Can't make out what they look like inside (which matters to me if no one else), that is whether the interiors are any more detailed/prototypical than the earlier ones as Mike Reagan once said they would be but the lighting looks great. Thanks again.

P.S. Nice fast forward on the unboxing! 

Hancock52,

I'll take some close up tonight.

John

Nice film but too much squeal! Sounds more like a freight train rather than a passenger train.

I had the volume up to high on the diner car.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Nice film but too much squeal! Sounds more like a freight train rather than a passenger train.

Yeah, that’s because Lionel ported Freightsounds to these models whereas the TMCC StationSounds diners only had “clickety-clack” or rail clatter. You can turn off the squeal sound in the remote.

 They look good. Thanks for taking the time to post the video. What is the radius of the track that the video was filmed on. Thanks 

thanks for the video I hope the up cars come in soon

aex steve posted:

 They look good. Thanks for taking the time to post the video. What is the radius of the track that the video was filmed on. Thanks 

Atlas 072

Thanks so much John for putting together a video very quickly for all of us to see! 

M J Breen posted:

Thanks so much John for putting together a video very quickly for all of us to see! 

My son helped make and edit the video last night .

John

Thanks for the close-ups, which I really appreciate. I’d say that Lionel has used the same basic one piece molding interior assembly on these cars that it did on the first run. It looks pretty good though in the color they’ve decided to use.

I’ve also compared what I can see of the roof and side detail with some GGD SP cars and 18” Lionel aluminum SP cars I have got. Looks to me like Lionel also opted to keep the same basic ribbed/fluted body design as in the first run. P.S. I mean they’ve used that design on these SP cars; I understand the pre-production samples of the UP Excursion cars shown by Lionel at York were true to the ACF-built prototypes, which is the same body design MTH has used in its ABS cars.

Are the windows flush with the side.  A big complaint was the windows stuck out from the side of the shell.  It looks like they addressed this but cannot confirm from the pictures.

MartyE posted:

Are the windows flush with the side.  A big complaint was the windows stuck out from the side of the shell.  It looks like they addressed this but cannot confirm from the pictures.

Yes, the windows do not protrude from the body sides in the way that the last few runs of Lionel’s aluminum cars did. Below is a photo of one of the original run of the 21” ABS cars (Texas Special observation car) which shows how the window inserts are placed. I think judging by the photos above of the SP cars the window assembly is the same; a clear plastic insert with the window frames in silver/aluminum color:

Some may say that this looks like the windows are sticking out but that’s an illusion. Lionel did say that they were addressing the complaints about the older window assemblies.