Which power supply for my first Legacy engine.

Are you using a command base and remote to control the engine or just BT ?

Will you ever run a conventional, non-command controlled engine ?

Jon,

For all of its history, with a few exceptions, all of its products have run on AC.

The exceptions are as follows:

1. Lionchief and Lionchief+ locomotives, featured DC power to keep costs down, but will run on AC as well.
2. A few very inexpensive locomotives from the mid- to late- 1970's, also to keep costs down, will not run on AC too, unless they're modified.
3. Lionel HO, DC only to align with all other HO, except traditional Marklin which is AC.
4. Lionel G, DC only to align with all other G.

AC is part of the charm that comes with 122 year old technology.  It's been part of Lionel for so long that it's became an unstated requirement; just something that everyone knowns -- except for newbies of course.

It is possible that others not listed above will run on DC, especially if they have "universal" motors and no electronics, but it's not guaranteed.

Mike

@Richie C. posted:

Are you using a command base and remote to control the engine or just BT ?

Will you ever run a conventional, non-command controlled engine ?

I use the LC remote and plan to use BT with the SW8. I don't think I'll ever go conventional.

And thanks for the background Mike.

Anybody have thoughts or opinions on the power supplies in question?

Jon

Get the 180 Powerhouse.  The old product # is 6-22983 or the new 6-85226.  I have 7 of them.  Never an issue.

@ffjon posted:

Anybody have thoughts or opinions on the power supplies in question?

Jon

One major difference between the CW-80 and the Powerhouse is that the CW-80 has a handle that allows one to vary the voltage to the track, which is virtually mandatory for running conventional engines; whereas the Powerhouse supplies a constant and non-variable 18 ac volts to the track, which makes it good for running command-controlled engines that can use or require 18 acv.

The Powerhouse also has more power and fast-acting electronic protections built in, so that would be my recommendation between the two.

Not sure about connectivity, but others will chime in.

Try this ... Connecting Powerhouse 180 to track without the Lionel Lock-On. | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

Here is a thread from a couple years ago when Lionel switched the model # on the PH180.

@MikeH posted:

Get the 180 Powerhouse.  The old product # is 6-22983 or the new 6-85226.  I have 7 of them.  Never an issue.

I made a mistake in my OP. I meant 135 Watt Powerhouse not 180.  Would you recommend the 135 Watt?

I have no experience with the 135w.  It has been said on this forum many times that the 180w is a better transformer but I haven't seen people trashing the 135w (only that the 180w is better in comparison).  If you can get a wonderful deal on the 135w, I suspect it will be fine.

I will say that I paid between $70-90 for each of my PH180's.  That's a to-the-door price, all from ebay, and all in the last three years.  So I would look for the 135w to be cheaper than that.

Thanks MikeH.

You got some good deals on your 180's.

Jon

@MikeH posted:

I have no experience with the 135w.  It has been said on this forum many times that the 180w is a better transformer but I haven't seen people trashing the 135w (only that the 180w is better in comparison). 

Outside of the wattage increase. I believe that its the fast acting breaker of the 180w brick that puts it ahead of the 135w.

I'd go with the 180.

Yeah.  I guess I should have been more specific.  The fast acting breaker in the 180 is thought to be top notch by those in-the-know.  And by in-the-know, I definitely do not mean me!

@MikeH posted:

I have no experience with the 135w.  It has been said on this forum many times that the 180w is a better transformer but I haven't seen people trashing the 135w (only that the 180w is better in comparison).  If you can get a wonderful deal on the 135w, I suspect it will be fine.

I will say that I paid between $70-90 for each of my PH180's.  That's a to-the-door price, all from ebay, and all in the last three years.  So I would look for the 135w to be cheaper than that.

Mike,

I have a handful of PH-180's, and they're clearly superior, and because I bought them used and nearly five years ago I paid less than you did.  In the last year though I have never seen them below $120 anywhere.  You must be quite lucky.  I also have a number of PH135's, not yet in use because the layout has yet to be built.

For this reason, I would consider PH135's in a heartbeat today, because they're still dirt cheap.  But they do need a suitable circuit breaker since they have none internally that is similar to what's in the PH180.

Here are the options for such fast-acting breakers as I see them:

1. DCC Specialties' PSX-AC  -- For direct-to-track command control applications, or insertion before a downstream conventional throttle units like PowerStation, PowerMaster or TPC.  Pricey but frequently cited to be as good as what's in the PH180.  Adjustable trip point (current) over wide range.  Won't operate below about 10 VAC (voltage).
2. Lionel Direct Lockon -- For direct-to-track command control applications, or insertion before a downstream conventional throttle units like PowerStation, PowerMaster or TPC.  Mid-priced yet reacts faster than what's in a PH-180 but not liked by some because it automatically resets, and because it apparently needs a filter choke in series with the output in order to avoid trampling on the DCS signal if DCS is used.  Selectable trip point (7.5A or 10A, current).  Must have at least 8 VAC in order to operate (voltage).
3. AirPax 7.5 Amp PP11-0-7.50A-OC-V  -- For use before or after a conventional throttle like PowerStation, PowerMaster or TPC, or after a conventional transformer like a ZW or KW, or for direct-to-track command control applications -- Least expensive but not adjustable or selectable.  On the other hand if your using something larger than a PH135 you could buy two (one 7.5A and one 10A, current) and wire them up with a toggle switch to select between them for less money than a Direct Lockon.  Also, operates down to just about zero VAC (voltage), unlike the others.

When you add any of these to a PH135 do you come out ahead price-wise over the PH180 at it's current price?  Certainly if you use No. 3, but maybe No. 2 as well if you can get them cheaply enough and you don't mind the auto reset feature.

Mike

I just wanted to report back after first consulting Joe Grzyboski and then, the great Dave Olson, that my 72 Watt LionChief brick powers the Legacy SW8 wonderfully. Thanks again to those who responded!

Jon