I am a big fan of the PRR 1361 and I would love to see it run once again. The thing is will it ever be able to run. I know that the museum is trying to restore it but it is not looking to great. I would like to know if they will finish this.
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rugsy3 posted:I am a big fan of the PRR 1361 and I would love to see it run once again. The thing is will it ever be able to run. I know that the museum is trying to restore it but it is not looking to great. I would like to know if they will finish this.
For what it's worth, the "museum" no longer has any control over 1361. A group of very influential and wealthy businessmen, including Mr. Bennett Levin and and retired NS CEO Mr. Wick Moorman, have taken over the responsibility of restoring and operating PRR 1361. Thus, there have been no further press releases since the original "announcement", and I wouldn't expect them to "announce" anymore information in the near future.
Hot Water posted:rugsy3 posted:I am a big fan of the PRR 1361 and I would love to see it run once again. The thing is will it ever be able to run. I know that the museum is trying to restore it but it is not looking to great. I would like to know if they will finish this.
For what it's worth, the "museum" no longer has any control over 1361. A group of very influential and wealthy businessmen, including Mr. Bennett Levin and and retired NS CEO Mr. Wick Moorman, have taken over the responsibility of restoring and operating PRR 1361. Thus, there have been no further press releases since the original "announcement", and I wouldn't expect them to "announce" anymore information in the near future.
Well, that’s the first good news I’ve heard on 1361 yet. Hopefully they can make it happen... I’m sure they can. I’ve been “out of the loop” on this for a while and hadn’t heard about it.
They may have to put a brand new boiler on her.
But the big question: Where are they going to run her? I do not see a rail version of Jurassic Park any time soon.
Dominic Mazoch posted:They may have to put a brand new boiler on her.
But the big question: Where are they going to run her? I do not see a rail version of Jurassic Park any time soon.
Have you not heard of the Reading and Blue Mountain RR?
Hot Water posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:They may have to put a brand new boiler on her.
But the big question: Where are they going to run her? I do not see a rail version of Jurassic Park any time soon.
Have you not heard of the Reading and Blue Mountain RR?
No. Have to Google it.
I would much rather watch 1361 in operation than 4014.
Good morning Brandon thanks for posting this latest Altoona Mirror newspaper article.
Heading up town to get a copy of this paper for my collection of newspaper articles on the K4 !
News of its return pops up now and then but being an elderly I don't expect to see it run in my lifetime.
Here is a photo of today's Altoona Mirror.
Front and center on the front page !!!
Well, the declaration that Levin will NOT have anybody form the prior project on this effort is a good sign. One of the first things I came across on this internet "thing" was the news that 1361 was going to be restored, I was thrilled (I knew nothing about she was pulled off HC in the 80s and ran briefly!). The 20 or-so intervening years certainly helped foster my cynicism of such projects...and Hotwater's admonitions!
I think it will be a lot easier to find a place ot run 1361 than 4014. It is much smaller and can run on branch lines and shortlines easier. I think there are 2 shortlines out of Holidaysburg near altoona. I know one, the Everett RR actually has a steamer so I would think they would be willing to host it. The other I am thinking of is the Bald Eagle and something I think. It is in that area.
It would be nice to see it run. I like the idea of it runnig better than a T1 too.
Allow me to clarify then, whoever got the thing tangled up for over 20 years are the ones I'm glad won't be involved. I did take the shotgun approach there, but the frustration with the project is real. As with most human endeavors, some good, qualified folks get splashed with the incompetence of others.
I'm really hoping to see 1361 alive and steaming one day in the near future. The Pennsy deserves more than one surviving operating engine.
Kelly Anderson posted:Times Square posted:Well, the declaration that Levin will NOT have anybody form the prior project on this effort is a good sign.
My employer was involved previously, so was Scott Lindsay of Steam Operations Corp, so I guess we're out. That begs the question of what competent contractors are left? Robert Franzen of Steam Services of America, but this may by a very large project for him.
There are some real charlatans out there who screw up project after project, yet keep getting hired. People need to check references more than they do many times.
Strasburg is where 1361 should have went in the first place. It would be due for an overhaul by now if it had.
Kelly Anderson posted:prrjim posted:I think it will be a lot easier to find a place ot run 1361 than 4014.
All the #4014 will have is the entire UP system.
Only where it will fit, which is not everywhere 3985 could fit. 3985 could actually go places 844 could not as the rigid wheelbase be 6 versus 8 wheels. The centipede tender is another issue as well.
Why is 4014 more flexible than 844? To my knowledge 4014 will have more overhang issues than 844.
Kelly Anderson posted:TexasSP posted:Kelly Anderson posted:prrjim posted:I think it will be a lot easier to find a place ot run 1361 than 4014.
All the #4014 will have is the entire UP system.
Only where it will fit, which is not everywhere 3985 could fit. 3985 could actually go places 844 could not as the rigid wheelbase be 6 versus 8 wheels. The centipede tender is another issue as well.
I understand that the centipede tender is the issue in each case. The #844 locomotive is more flexible than her tender, and #4014 will be more flexible than #844, so if her tender can make it, so can the locomotive.
Nope. For example, there is a VERY sharp curve from Albina Yard, in Portland, OR which provides access to the Steel Bridge over the Willamette River and into Portland Union Station. The FEF class northers will NOT negotiate that curve! When the UP attempted to replace the 4-8-2 passenger locomotives on the Portland bound passenger trains with the 800 class FEFs, (the early 800s didn't have the centipede tenders, either) the 22 foot ridged wheel base of the FEFs, would NOT go around that curve. Thus, the FEFs could not go to Portland on passenger trains, and 3900 class Challengers were converted to oil burning, painted two-tone gray (starting in 1946), and assigned to UP passenger trains to and from Portland Union Station.
I've around that curve on 3985, but 844 was not allowed to use that routing. I've also been places, on the UP system, that could NOT handle 844, yet 3985 was OK, and they both have the same centipede tender. The 22 foot rigid wheel base of the UP FEF class northerns, with 80 inch diameter drivers, and all roller bearing axles, are the limiting factor.
EDIT:
For those interested, here are the curve negotiation data numbers for the "big three" UP steam locomotives:
Forward direction:
800s = 14 degrees
3900s = 17 degrees
4000s = 16 degrees
Reverse direction, i.e. backing up:
ALL = 12 degrees
Larry Mullen posted:
6 - 9 months to prepare engineering drawings for a boiler that will, more or less, duplicate the original?
palallin posted:Larry Mullen posted:6 - 9 months to prepare engineering drawings for a boiler that will, more or less, duplicate the original?
Well, no the new boiler will NOT "duplicate the original", since the original was built with a safety factor of 3.5 and NOT the current FRA required safety factor of 4. Thus, thickness of the steel, staybolt size & design, and staybolt spacing must all comply with current regulations.
What about the curves from the Steel Bridge to Portland Union Station?
I think the Steel Bridge is the one of the few bridges with two different draws: Freight and Amtrak on the lower, auto and Tri-Met LRT plus Portland Streetcar on the upper.
Dominic Mazoch posted:What about the curves from the Steel Bridge to Portland Union Station?
I think the Steel Bridge is the one of the few bridges with two different draws: Freight and Amtrak on the lower, auto and Tri-Met LRT plus Portland Streetcar on the upper.
he did say "more or less"
I'd be satisfied if the boiler looks like the original, made to modern specs.
Hot Water posted:palallin posted:Larry Mullen posted:6 - 9 months to prepare engineering drawings for a boiler that will, more or less, duplicate the original?
Well, no the new boiler will NOT "duplicate the original", since the original was built with a safety factor of 3.5 and NOT the current FRA required safety factor of 4. Thus, thickness of the steel, staybolt size & design, and staybolt spacing must all comply with current regulations.
And in an era of CAD/CAM, making those changes will take 6 - 9 months??? C'mon, Jack: that's just silly. 75 years ago, we could build an aircraft carrier BY HAND in that amount of time.
palallin posted:Hot Water posted:palallin posted:Larry Mullen posted:6 - 9 months to prepare engineering drawings for a boiler that will, more or less, duplicate the original?
Well, no the new boiler will NOT "duplicate the original", since the original was built with a safety factor of 3.5 and NOT the current FRA required safety factor of 4. Thus, thickness of the steel, staybolt size & design, and staybolt spacing must all comply with current regulations.
And in an era of CAD/CAM, making those changes will take 6 - 9 months???
Including all the mathematical calculations and finite element stress analyses, that doesn't surprise me. Plus the submittal to the FRA and subsequent approval. Certainly not unreasonable.
C'mon, Jack: that's just silly. 75 years ago, we could build an aircraft carrier BY HAND in that amount of time.
Even during WWII they didn't build aircraft carriers THAT fast, and you know it!
Casey Jones2 posted:I would much rather watch 1361 in operation than 4014.
No offense.....but that is crazy talk!! 
USS San Jacinto, CVL 30:
"[L]aid down 26 Oct 1942; . . . launched 29 Sept 1943"
USS Wright, CVL 49:
"Laid down on 21 Aug 1944 . . . launched on 1 Sep 1945"
USS Block Island, CVE 21:
"Laid down 19 January 1942, launched 6 June 1942"
USS Sangamon, CVE 26:
"Laid down 13 march 1939, launched 4 November 1939"
Dates from NavSource.
How long did it take the Altoona shops to build the engine to begin with? The little Frisco turned out a whole class of 4-8-2s in that amount of time!
Jack, there is nothing reasonable about 6 - 9 months just to complete the drawings. Or for them to be approved, for that matter. That these kinds of delays and overages by engineers, businesses, and government is considered the norm today is a source of national shame.
palallinThat these kinds of delays and overages by engineers, businesses, and government is considered the norm today is a source of national shame.
What would you consider the Kardashians then?
Steamer posted:Kelly Anderson posted:Times Square posted:Well, the declaration that Levin will NOT have anybody form the prior project on this effort is a good sign.
My employer was involved previously, so was Scott Lindsay of Steam Operations Corp, so I guess we're out. That begs the question of what competent contractors are left? Robert Franzen of Steam Services of America, but this may by a very large project for him.
There are some real charlatans out there who screw up project after project, yet keep getting hired. People need to check references more than they do many times.
Strasburg is where 1361 should have went in the first place. It would be due for an overhaul by now if it had.
If she want to Strasburg, she’d be sitting outside with the other K4. Probably in worse condition. Just be glad (most) of her part are currently indoors. It also would have never been restored in the first place. Just look at 1223 and 7002 after the museum didn’t want to have boiler work done across the street.
what I meant was if 1361 had gone to Strasburg when this whole debacle started, the work would have been done correctly and in a timely matter, and would have been running instead of scattered in pieces, and would been due for her overhaul. Not sitting outside rotting.
NS6770Fan posted:Steamer posted:Kelly Anderson posted:Times Square posted:Well, the declaration that Levin will NOT have anybody form the prior project on this effort is a good sign.
My employer was involved previously, so was Scott Lindsay of Steam Operations Corp, so I guess we're out. That begs the question of what competent contractors are left? Robert Franzen of Steam Services of America, but this may by a very large project for him.
There are some real charlatans out there who screw up project after project, yet keep getting hired. People need to check references more than they do many times.
Strasburg is where 1361 should have went in the first place. It would be due for an overhaul by now if it had.
If she want to Strasburg, she’d be sitting outside with the other K4. Probably in worse condition. Just be glad (most) of her part are currently indoors. It also would have never been restored in the first place. Just look at 1223 and 7002 after the museum didn’t want to have boiler work done across the street.
He was referring to the Strasburg RR, not the RR Museum of PA across the street.
NS6770Fan posted:Steamer posted:Kelly Anderson posted:Times Square posted:Well, the declaration that Levin will NOT have anybody form the prior project on this effort is a good sign.
My employer was involved previously, so was Scott Lindsay of Steam Operations Corp, so I guess we're out. That begs the question of what competent contractors are left? Robert Franzen of Steam Services of America, but this may by a very large project for him.
There are some real charlatans out there who screw up project after project, yet keep getting hired. People need to check references more than they do many times.
Strasburg is where 1361 should have went in the first place. It would be due for an overhaul by now if it had.
If she want to Strasburg, she’d be sitting outside with the other K4. Probably in worse condition. Just be glad (most) of her part are currently indoors. It also would have never been restored in the first place. Just look at 1223 and 7002 after the museum didn’t want to have boiler work done across the street.
It's because those locos belonged to the museum, and there is a certain percentage of the locomotive or any other rolling stock that has to be as close to when it left service. Once those parts wore down, the museum had to recall them to maintain the state they were in before more parts were replaced.
Both are indoors and cosmetically restored anyway, so they're fine. Not every steam engine can be made to run, especially if it belongs to a museum that has a policy for originality in place.
NS6770Fan posted:Steamer posted:Kelly Anderson posted:Times Square posted:Well, the declaration that Levin will NOT have anybody form the prior project on this effort is a good sign.
My employer was involved previously, so was Scott Lindsay of Steam Operations Corp, so I guess we're out. That begs the question of what competent contractors are left? Robert Franzen of Steam Services of America, but this may by a very large project for him.
There are some real charlatans out there who screw up project after project, yet keep getting hired. People need to check references more than they do many times.
Strasburg is where 1361 should have went in the first place. It would be due for an overhaul by now if it had.
If she want to Strasburg, she’d be sitting outside with the other K4. Probably in worse condition. Just be glad (most) of her part are currently indoors. It also would have never been restored in the first place. Just look at 1223 and 7002 after the museum didn’t want to have boiler work done across the street.
To expand on what was already said, 1223 and 7002 (and that K4) are owned by Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, not the Strasburg Railroad. Totally different group and the engines were on lease to the Strasburg. Strasburg didn't stop operating them by choice. RR Museum of PA said don't disturb any more original fabric, so they were parked. At that point, work started on getting 475 operational, which the railroad owned.
Strasburg restoration shop is just like any other business. There is a priority list with a lot of work--both contract, and stuff needed to keep the railroad running. The sooner you want your project done, the more money you are going to pay since something else isn't getting worked on.
Berkshire President posted:palallinThat these kinds of delays and overages by engineers, businesses, and government is considered the norm today is a source of national shame.
What would you consider the Kardashians then?
A alien race which gives Captain Sisco on Station Deep Space Nine headachrs!
They didn't do Picard any favors either
Dominic Mazoch posted:Berkshire President posted:palallinThat these kinds of delays and overages by engineers, businesses, and government is considered the norm today is a source of national shame.
What would you consider the Kardashians then?
A alien race which gives Captain Sisco on Station Deep Space Nine headachrs!
You confusing the Cardassians (the alien race) with the Kardashians, a bunch of shallow, amoral people that have had a LOT of plastic surgery.
I dunno...looks like a Kardashian to me
Steamer posted:I dunno...looks like a Kardashian to me
If you wake up with either lying next to you, it was a rough night....that should probably best be forgotten!!
FORMER OGR CEO - RETIRED posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:Berkshire President posted:palallinThat these kinds of delays and overages by engineers, businesses, and government is considered the norm today is a source of national shame.
What would you consider the Kardashians then?
A alien race which gives Captain Sisco on Station Deep Space Nine headachrs!
You confusing the Cardassians (the alien race) with the Kardashians, a bunch of shallow, amoral people that have had a LOT of plastic surgery.
When I first heard of the human lifeforms, my first reaction was why a ST:TNG OR ST
S9 aliens were in the news.
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