Williams by Bachmann?

Jerry Williams was producing some of his O27 Alco's around the same time K-Line was doing the ex-Kusan O27 Alco.  WBB is using the old Williams tooling.

Rusty

I think that Bachmann would find it too expensive to use the Marx tooling as they would have to purchase the user rights for Marx.

There was a company that tried to re-make Marx trains a few years ago and went under.

As for Kusan it might be on the side line for a few years, or maybe won't come back, only time will tell.

Right now the best thing is not to speculate about who owns what company or has the rights to what product as things got complicated with K-Line and Sanda Kan.

One thing that is for certain; Lionel no longer can use the K-Line name. Can only sell what was on hand before a certain date.

If Bachmann comes out and says they have the tooling for a certain company or product then they have the legal rights to use it.

Just like Bachmann re-named K-Line's Super Streets to E Z Streets by Williams/Bachmann.

Lee Fritz

Do they currently produce any items made with Kusan or Marx tooling?

Sorry, but no.

RMT is the one using reworked Kusan molds with updated drives such as the

Beep

Depressed centered flat car

Box car

Offset hopper car

caboose

I am not sure but the Buddy and the S4 Bang Switcher maybe former Marx molds.

It would have been interesting to see an updated

E7 & GE 70 tonn Switcher 

Yeah RMT stated they didn't have any pieces made using the Kusan ALCO tooling as did K-Line.  All of the KMT and Marx train tooling that exists (discovered by k-Line) is owned by Sanda Kan (owned by Kader/Bachmann) which they leased to Lionel for a bit and then RMT.  So the Alcos are there somewhere and have been produced in recent years by Lionel/K-Line.   On a side note...can't wait for the RMT Marx steam loco.

RMT Bang and Buddy are Marx tooling.  

Marx Trains owned by the Flynns used all new tools to reproduce tinplate Marx items.  And they may have made some of the tin parts for the Marx Toys in Miami which reissued some plastic Marx playsets.  I regret not buying any from either of those companies.   

The Flynn's are still around and active on eBay (with their Marx).

Just did some research on Williams.  Don't they still offer an F7 that is based off the AMT/Kusan tooling?

That's what I was going to say.........I was always told these were old AMT tools....and they look it.......not that bad....but not up to the E-7 tooling for sure!!!

The Kusan F-7 had an incorrect nose contour (check out the "cheeks"), and an odd,

bulging roof.

Williams eliminated the roof bulge, but the WBB F-7 nose is still incorrectly - and

very noticeably - mis-shapen. Mechanically they are the same as their very well-done

F-3's, so far as I know - and why wouldn't they be? 

----

I have a NYC set of the K-line 027 Alco FA-2's, and a Williams 027 Alco FA-2 set

(Erie). Both are nice sets, and the WBB is heavier and probably "better".

However, the K-line/Kusan (K-san?) body tooling is better than WBB's or Lionel's.

You should see what I did to my 027 A-A WBB's....sound, cruise commander, coil couplers, moved one motor to the dummy, added a tether...sweet little "export model".

Sort of a diesel Russian Decapod.

The Williams F-7 and F-3 might share some parts, trucks, but the F-7 has a sheet metal chassis and the F-3 has a die cast chassis. Looks like the same motors but maybe different mounts???

Agreed the nose is bad

The Williams and WbB boxcar, cattle car, and reefer are old AMT/Kusan molds, along with the F-7.

K-Line got the AMT/Kusan tank car, caboose, offset/covered hopper molds and now RMT has them.

The other AMT/Kusan molds that have not reappeared are the shorty gondola and the depressed center flatcar.

Didn't Kusan produce a boxcar of their own design plus a larger one from AMT?  The WBB seems to be the larger AMT version, same used by Kris Model Trains and then PVP used the same tool to create the 1990 TCA Banquet car which I amazing won at the age of 14 by sitting in the right chair.  Pic posted below.  I love these discussion as I enjoy looking at tooling history and all the different eras using vintage tools.

I think the smaller Kusan Boxcar was used for the excellent line of K-Line boxcars.  Looks like K-Line opened the doors up and added tons of detail.  But look at the cast lines...its the same car.  That huge rib running along the bottom edge.  Think RMT will be using these boxcars for their upcoming line.

Looks like WBB also has a Kusan Gondola and perhaps the Kusan tankcard and flatcar in tweaked form.

I'm pretty sure that the RMT depressed center flatcar is the old Marx tooling, and not AMT. Does RMT make two different depressed center flatcar designs?

AMCDave - interesting that there are so many differences between the Kusan/WBB

F-7's and the F-3's. Did not know about the stamped/cast frame differences.

I have examined both platforms, but never very closely. Good to know. (I forgot to follow this thread; it popped up again.) 

I like the Kusan/WBB F-7 in a where-we-have-been sort of way, and now that I am aware of more differences, perhaps one (hopefully just one) should be in my collection. Darn it.

Yes RMT has the large Kusan depressed center flatcar..currently used with the Beep load.  And they have the smaller Marx version with the tank load.