why? And why not?
Dave
Original Post
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I sure would order. They stand-by there products. The Mogul had some serious issues and they stood by it having sent them back to China to be redone. Took 10 months but got it back yesterday.
Nope, yet to be seen if all the moguls are right. Including mine. What ever the issues are between Lionel and their suppliers, I hope it gets corrected soon. I don't need anymore aggravation, heartbreaks, frustrations.
Yes. But honestly, there isn't a lot I (a modeler of the 1950 time period) see as applicable to my layout. Probably a few PRR running stock pieces, and three or so Christmas cars (I give one to each grandchild each Christmas). Also MAYBE some accessories.
This catalog was interesting. A few surprises. I did order a few things from it already but not as much as I ordered from the last catalog.Ordered were the CP FA 4 unit set, the BNSF tank train set with extra non powered BNSF engine and two PS-1 sound box cars, three pack of tank cars to go with the tank train set...........Paul
I'm gonna take a chance on one of the Hudsons. I've been asking Lionel to make these with legacy for 10 years.
It is really the last locomotive I "need" persay.
It's kinda sad though. I'm already figuring there's a 50/50 chance it will have something wrong with it.
If the day comes I have to sit on hold for over an hour for an RA number I'm done.
Imo. The manufacturing isn't up to par, and neither is the service dept.
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Sure - why not ??? I've never had a problem
Just the opposite for me - they have always gotten right back to me with questions I've had / parts requests / etc
I'm good
Yes, ordered two diesels yesterday.
Pre-order is the only way I buy, and have never had a problem. Of course I don't buy steam engines, which seems to be where most of the complaints arise.
No, I am not preordering this time. Minor repairs I can deal with, but issues with molds or colors cannot be fixed. I prefer to see the item at my dealer and read about it on the forum first. Then I will make a decision to buy it.
Yes, to me the reward of a new locomotive is still greater than the risk of a lemon. Additionally I buy from my local train store that services what they sell. If there is a problem the store takes care of the problem. No need for me to deal with Lionel directly. I may pay a little more for the item but I think it is worth it. Also the train gets shipped at least one less time reducing the chance of damage occurring in transit.
I have never pre-ordered anything and that isn't changing. I did see a few items, doesn't everyone, but I'll wait for the reviews before I jump in the pool.
Absolutely yes !
First let me say i never comment on any of these threads for one reason. This is suppose to be a place to come and enjoy our hobby. There's enough terrible things going on in this world, so this is my happy place.
IMO the more sophisticated new trains get, the more issues that will arise. As an example we had leased a 2016 Mercedes Benz SUV, it was loaded with many features. In the three years the truck must have went back to the dealer a dozen times. I was in the car business for 25 years i handled Acura, Honda, Toyota, Saab, Hyundai, Mazda, and all GM products. It's the same as the trains , the more sophisticated the cars became the more times they were back to the dealer.
This goes for pretty much any products that are manufactured today, another example... cell phones, i can't being to tell you how many times mine and my families I phones have had issues. So yes i will continue to purchase Lionel trains and enjoy them!! 
Alex
No, I will not. I feel that the last 3 runs of GLAs were mis-represented in the catalogue. I was under the impression (maybe mistakenly) they would be the same color and quality and fidelity to prototype as the previous PRR runs which I also bought.
It turned out the color is some weird orange, and they changed the trucks from the PRR style (even though PRR cars) to a generic Bettendorf.
so I I got burned in my opinion for over 800. When I contacted Lionel about at least getting the proper trucks, they did not even respond.
So from now on, I will not pre-order. If on the chance I see something that makes sense at a show or hobby shop, I will consider it.
Absolutely, yes!
Working on my list now. I usually wait until I get a hard copy in my hands so I can really peruse the fine print. It also builds in a small waiting period to come down off the initial catalog high.
I can read. I see the various QC and other issues reported here. Don't doubt them at all but I've never had an issue with a Lionel pre-order. Fingers crossed.
EDIT: And I'll add that for some selected items I do wait and let others "do the testing." Good recent example are the camera equipped cabooses. Really wanted to order one but will see some reviews first.
Captain John posted:I sure would order. They stand-by there products. The Mogul had some serious issues and they stood by it having sent them back to China to be redone. Took 10 months but got it back yesterday.
...and how is it?
Mark in Oregon
Honestly, only have pre-ordered sound boxcars. I really don't see any new innovations in engines except to me gimmicks added rather then something never done before to lead the pack. Also to me a catalog should show items available and accurate to what made, rather then possible items made if at all. A catalog should be up to date, rather then filled with possibilities if made at all.
Seems as if "O" scale manufacturers are the only consumer goods built and sold on possibilities and long term waiting for a cataloged item. What other manufacturer runs their business this way? Or would even consider this and stay in business?
Due to the last few years of bad quality, I will place no more orders with Lionel until I see a big improvement.
We have seen upon delivery engines and cars with:
Toilet paper inside a new steam engine
Mold lines across the top of boilers
The wrong color being paint used in many cases
Silver smoke boxes
Smudged paint
Windows pushed in
Bad smoke units, three blinks
Stalling motors, two blinks
Exposed visible wiring in sound car diners
Broken couplers
Broken wheel bearings
Hatch’s that won’t open
Bad boards
Stripped screw heads
Weird screw heads on the drivers of steam engines
An absence of spare parts
Poor design: Mogul and Crayola car
Return to thumbtack couplers
And more.
Lionel has yet to give any apologies or to have pledged to commit themselves to better quality...that tells me they either don’t get it, don’t care, or both.
I would love to order a Lionel PRR J1A, but with all the problems above, why take a chance on getting a clinker?
I've always pre-ordered and never had any serious problems that couldn't be fixed, exchanged or otherwise resolved. Dealing with a local dealer and with long standing mail order dealers who stand by their customers is the key. Getting wildly bent out of shape about having to deal with problems with toy trains seems not a good thing for one's health 
. I know there are entire forums devoted to such rending of garments and emotional wailing, but I don't get the utility of such over the top responses to what are almost universally fixable problems. At the worst, one asks for and gets a refund from the dealer, and they deal with Lionel, MTH, etc.
No. I'll wait to see it run. If a BTO order isn't available after they're shipped, I'll manage to live without it.
As far as I am concerned, an item shouldn't be cataloged or otherwise advertised till it has been made and is ready for delivery. Problems or not, I don't pre-order.
Yes - there are certain sets/locomotives that will sell out quickly. Items we have been waiting for along time.
The key is to get them out of the box and run/ test them. If there are issues you just have to bite the bullet and send it back for repair. A lot of repairs I do on my own. Seems to be the nature of the hobby and you cannot be scared of the technology. You have to engage it and understand it and learn it.
I just had a Lionel Santa Fe 4-8-4 Northern with a screeching smoke unit motor rear its ugly head last night. I never ran it...I tried to oil it, and no go. Time for a new one... not fun.
I'm on the fence between BTO and just waiting to see reviews and then making a decision. With the 2 BTOs I've done, both had problems but were fixed by me; however, other 'wait and sees' - some were perfect, some had minor issues - makes the hobby exciting. I suppose if there is a re-issue of the VL Big Boy, I will bite the bullet and BTO.
Limited myself. Only the P.E. scale cars. but on the fence with the ALCo Fa-2 Demo units.
Even though I've been on a two year hiatus, it seems that the topics never change!
Jim
Yes, I will continue to preorder. In all the time I have been buying Legacy engines I have only had one serious issue and it was resolved. In my opinion this forum blows a lot of the issues out of proportion. Don’t get me wrong the forum is a great resource and it is nice to hear what other O gauge fans are thinking but make up your own minds based on what you have purchased not the opinion of others.
No. I haven't in the past and don't plan to start now.
Yes I do. I also discount 95% of the negative comments on this forum, since my experience has been positive. Some of our members enjoy making mountains from grains of sand and I fear that they don't even own the product in question.
Yes, how many of you grumpy posters will be happy if big L folds? Maybe you will start a new company then you can do the "correct" color, marker lights, etc. Then you can find a more reliable Chinese/Korean manufacturer who will have perfect assembly and design, or start a factory in US, and then you can set a price at a level to avoid complaints, and you can have every part on hand to do repaairs, have customer service people on staff, and have hundreds of products in production, not just 10 or 15.
I am taking into consideration Alan's (OGR CEO) suggestions on moderation of our experiences with model products.
I am happy that I can get parts from Lionel in a timely manner - usually 7 to 10 days - hats off to the ladies that ship the parts; I also like having their service dept for fixing locomotive issues - I have had 100% success with them. Glad Lionel has the latter available.
Manufacturing is what it is; the products are more complicated now than ever. Will stick with Lionel and want them to continue.
I am not pre-ordering because there is nothing in this catalog that I need or want to add to my model railroad. That will be my decision until some catalog has something that, as they say, has my name written on it. I agree with several posters that the more complex a product becomes, the more likely that problems will occur, especially if the engineering and manufacturing are separated by thousands of miles.
Yes, if it is something I really want. I don't want to miss out on another item and have to pay full list or above.
With that said, there is a major disconnect with the problems written about on this forum and what is actually taking place at my two local (Chicago area) dealers. My dealers have not experienced the percentage of problems portrayed on this forum. Maybe it is shipping damage I don't know, but when I buy over the counter, I do not have any of the issues cited here.
Charlie
Sure I'll order but I want dealer to check out locomotive before sending it. If it is a lemon just send one that works!
I certainly will pre-order. No question. My experience with Lionel ... humm, almost no problems on pre-orders or significant issues.
I will say that - as others have posted - the negativity on this Forum from a dozen or so posters is reaching a crescendo. WHile it's easy to block or otherwise ignore the constant complainers, I'm on the verge of packing this Forum in for the duration. I've been a member since 2001 and there's increasingly little to keep my attention. 
Just MO and observations. 
Of course I will pre-order! They are well aware of past failures, and I truly believe that improvement is coming.
I will not Order from this catalog until QC is fixed.Shipping warranty work back to Lionel is on the buyers dime unless it is a Vision product, that can be quite a hit financially and it should be the responsibility of Lionel.
Mikey
No more pre's for me I've seen too many wrong colors and broken new in the box. I want to see it first. If they cancel so be it.
The preorder goes both way. On the one hand people don't want to prepurchase an item that has serious issues or the're not happy with for one reason or another. On the other hand manufacturers don't want to make an item that nobody wants and be stuck with extra inventory or selling for a loss. If they don't get enough preorders then that item doesn't get made. I personally preorder in the hopes that what I want will get made and of course hope that it not defective or I'm not happy with it one way or another.
I've only preordered a few times and everything turned out good in the end.
I think the trick to a preorder or anything you purchase for that matter is to: First, buy from a dealer with a good reputation and Second, is to inspect and test run before you buy / take delivery. A good dealer will make it right before you take your new purchase home.
This can be a little harder when your LHS is far away, but in the end a good relationship with a reputable dealer goes a long way.
No way Jose!!! Have not pre-ordered anything in years and I am very happy and comfortable with that decision.
