Wrong Paint On Engine Thread

Without a URL to investigate, I have no idea where to look for this.

Just my opinion but, the original post, and subsequent posts, seemed to be fairly uncomplimentary to Lionel.

Hot Water posted:

Just my opinion but, the original post, and subsequent posts, seemed to be fairly uncomplimentary to Lionel.

I agree with you, Hot Water!  Although it may have been considered uncomplementary to one of the Forum sponsors, it sure seemed to be very fair (spot-on) criticism.  They really messed up the paint color on that engine, and I don't see why we can't talk about it here.  Keeping that thread active may have helped other Forum members who were "on the fence" about purchasing this engine to make a decision...one way or the other.

I pre-ordered the Reading & Northern version, and it's due to arrive at my door tomorrow.  Fingers crossed that they got the colors right on THAT one!!

I read the original post and saw nothing wrong with it, If the paint is the wrong color, It isn't correct. To me, and I don't have a dog in the fight, it's wrong. and certainly not what the customer expected. Regardless of the manufacturer.

That said, I'm sure the manufacturers try to get the colors right, on the other hand, these are toys and nowhere does it say in the catalog that the color scheme will be an exact match to the original prototype.

Some people wouldn't buy it based on the wrong shade of color, in this case it was bought sight unseen. Why can't he just get his cash back? Others would just leave it and enjoy the engine and possibly repaint it to what they deem correct.

https://ogrforum.com/t...e-wrong-colors-on-it

645 posted:

One response did say an error like this was why that particular individual will not buy BTO products sight unseen which is within their rights.

I fully agree with that statement. After the stunt that Lionel pulled with the recent UP FEF-3 models, where it is SPECIFICALLY stated in the catalog that the optional road numbered 4-8-4s will have the Sellers Feedwater System. My buddy was even specifically told by a Lionel representative at York, that "Yes, the Worthington Feedwater Heater 'box' in front of the stack will be removed, and the necessary Sellers piping added." Such was NOT the case when those other UP road numbered models arrived!

FYI, the original post is on page two at the moment. The only thing that may have closed this topic was the remark about quality control from one manufacturer and so?  There are many examples of customer rants, much worse than this, all over this forum.

If what the op posted hit someone's nerve, that's pretty petty. (the poster didn't say...."company A sucks" Buy company B) If that's the reason for the topics closure.

Maybe not a quality control issue.....but perhaps an oversight issue where nobody caught the mistake prior to the run being produced.

Here it is again Mth on the left and new Lionel on the right.  The Mth is correct and the Lionel is way off its sad my post got deleted in just looking for help in fixing this. 

The thread is closed but not deleted. It is on page 2:

          https://ogrforum.com/t...67#64358525762656667

I can not understand why it was closed, I have seen and read a lot stronger negative comments about Lionel in the past. This tread seemed mild in comparison. I am still a Lionel guy.

JohnB

Aaron dmir posted:

The Mth is correct and the Lionel is way off its sad my post got deleted in just looking for help in fixing this. 

First, you were NOT deleted, someone simply locked "CLOSED" the thread. Your point was made,,,,,period.

Second, how would posting such information "fix" your model? They are all, manufactured and delivered, so that is a dead end. In my opinion, you should simply return it, as having it totally repainted and decaled will obviously be fairly expensive.

I'm also still a Lionel fan but why would something this noticeable happen?

I preordered a LEGACY Chessie SD40 with the wrong # font for the "0's" on cab #7500 and a LEGACY Chessie GP9 that has the walkway painted black instead of blue. I don't consider either to be that big of a deal but I really won't miss Lionel as I move to 2-rail.

Lionel's quality control is lacking in my opinion.  Their recent Missouri Pacific SD40-2's and GP35's were closer to Conrail Blue than Jenks Blue which is wrong.  Their MKT SD40-2's were too dark of a green. Jack's issues with the 844 and now Aaron's issue with the DM&IR SD38's are even more striking examples that something is wrong in their research and quality control.

At this point I will not buy engines from Lionel sight unseen either! Especially built to order items. I do not trust them to get things right. I hope Lionel pays attention to this forum and takes actions to correct this issue. 

Man, that's way off.  Send it back.

Rusty

The primary purpose of this forum is to sell advertisement space.

Any negativity towards sponsor, product, or service is not tolerated. No matter how warranted it may be.

 In the meantime. Don't get sucked into Lionels BTO hype, wait until the product gets delivered.

I made my last preorder last year. Especially since that " better order it now because it's BTO and your gonna miss out if you don't "  locomotive that I preordered can now be had $50 less than the original preorder price.

Hot Water posted:

Second, how would posting such information "fix" your model? They are all, manufactured and delivered, so that is a dead end. In my opinion, you should simply return it, as having it totally repainted and decaled will obviously be fairly expensive.

Well unless Lionel decided to order correctly painted replacement shells like they did for the cc f3s and swap them out. Fat chance I suppose.

At the very least Aaron gave a "heads up" to any prospective customer of this gross paint error. Nothing wrong with that.

Off color on a Williams maybe.  BTO Lionel, NO WAY.  Considering there are real engines in that livery in service right now!

Thanks all for the info. I guess your right I'm not posting this for some to be here let me fix it but more as a heads up and be carful when ordering.  I have contacted the maker of the model and no real help but other than send it back.  I have also contacted the dealer and they are willing to take it back.  It just upsetting when you are really looking forward to something and then it wrong.

Sorry you guys have run into this problem again. I've experienced this issue on other units myself and recently cancelled several pre orders to avoid spending money on unproven product. Going forward I'm just going to take the chance that extras will be made and if it's done right then I will buy it. 

Speaking of wrong paint color, I'm wondering about the Lionel Legacy L&N GP9's.

As best I can find is that they should have been confederate grey and yellow, yet the grey looks closer to pale blue on the Lionel model.

Is there any evidence that the color of any L&N diesel of that era used a pale blue instead of confederate grey?

Maybe some MTH research and quality control people moved over to Lionel...........

How would someone be able to get this corrected.

A complete repaint of the original parts?

New body parts with the correct deep red?

Andrew

I do not consider scale model locomotives of this nature and price level as "toys" and therefore they should be as accurate as possible.   Apparently quality control, where it applies to models manufactured in foreign countries, can be more difficult but don't they thoroughly examine a pre-production sample of the model prior to putting it into production?  Apparently not thoroughly enough in some cases.  Yet the manufacturer owes it to the consumer to offer some sort of fix to those who have already purchased an incorrect model.   Correct me if I am wrong but obtaining the correct paint colors for an engine should not be an issue since the paint manufacturer's color samples should be available for all to see. 

Allegheny, I agree!  Wrong is wrong, period...it doesn't matter which manufacturer (importer) it is.  That color is not even close.   So it begs the question, how does that happen?

It sounds like the original poster did contact Lionel, which is good.  I'm curious if they offered any sort of explanation for the mistake?  If not, I'm hoping someone from Lionel sees this thread and is willing to chime in here.

We all know this isn't the first time something like this has happened, so apparently there's either a breakdown--or a step missing--somewhere in their research/design/manufacturing/inspection process.

IMO, spending $500+ for a locomotive sight unseen should at least get you a REASONABLE representation of the prototype it is supposed to be modeling!

When it comes to preordering, people should be ordering from a dealer that allows returns. I have preordered items in the past that I did not like when they arrived. I was able to just return them to the dealer. The risk you run is either not getting one as it isn't available or there not being enough orders for the manufacturers to produce the engine.

I would never buy from a dealer that doesn't accept returns. Period.

I can see a possible solution: Lionel could hire three OCD railroad modelers for quality control inspectors, who have the final say if the loco (or car, accessory) passes. 

OCD: because they can't tolerate "it's good enough"

Three: only one "nay" would be needed to instill a search for the precise minute detail.

Drawback: most likely there would be more "rework" which might adversely impact expense, until in-process quality improved.

So, all claimed scale products must pass the OCD Quality Control Inspectors' test.

Result: Customer can rest at ease, unless, of course, Lionel doesn't gets it right.��

OK,  let me get this right.   The original post was not deleted,  the paint color is wrong,  the dealer who sold it is willing to take it back and refund the original poster in the first thread his money.

While it does not fix the paint problem,  I am not sure what the additional venting is accomplishing and the more negative posts just gives rich one more reason to lock or delete this thread, because comments about other issues on other engines may or may not be right and best be dealt with directly with the dealer or manufacturer. 

This thread brings to mind the Lionel F3 Grand Trunks, The green was way off. When questioned at York about it the reply was, yes we know but the bodies are already painted so they will be issued that way. Could be they did it again.

Lionel pretty much told my tough luck and return it to the dealer.  I'm going to be returning these locos. The dealer is being great about the whole issue and they even contacted Lionel.  Not sure what Lionel told them.  Again I only really posted this to make people aware of these models and becareful when pre ordering items.

i would love to go to York and ask them about it in person and see what happened.  But I live in Minnesota

Aaron dmir posted:

i would love to go to York and ask them about it in person and see what happened.  But I live in Minnesota

Don't they allow folks from Minnesota at York?

At any rate you could always write directly to Lionel and ask them about the incorrect color. I thought Lionel has an "Ask Lionel" eMail address on their website. Might be worth a try.

Kind of reminds me of the Commodore Vanderbilt a couple of decades ago.

Aaron dmir posted:

Here it is again Mth on the left and new Lionel on the right.  The Mth is correct and the Lionel is way off its sad my post got deleted in just looking for help in fixing this. 

I like it a lot. The color difference adds considerable interest to my eye. Besides when one looks at DMIR paint schemes especially after a shop rebuild the color range of the maroons used while not as red as the Lionel certainly aren't confined to the dark maroon. Many of these out-shopped paint jobs are quite a bit more reddish than the original factory colors of these locomotives. Especially when out in the weather those back shop paint jobs probably age toward a more reddish hue.

Bogie

OldBogie posted:

Aaron dmir posted:

Here it is again Mth on the left and new Lionel on the right.  The Mth is correct and the Lionel is way off its sad my post got deleted in just looking for help in fixing this. 

I like it a lot. The color difference adds considerable interest to my eye. Besides when one looks at DMIR paint schemes especially after a shop rebuild the color range of the maroons used while not as red as the Lionel certainly aren't confined to the dark maroon. Many of these out-shopped paint jobs are quite a bit more reddish than the original factory colors of these locomotives. Especially when out in the weather those back shop paint jobs probably age toward a more reddish hue.

 

Bogie

Your kidding, right?  Have you ever seen ANY of the DM&IR diesel units look like THAT (the model on the right), no mater how old/faded they were?

While not the deep maroon that most of us are used to, this isn't red either.

http://www.railpictures.net/im.../6598.1471928806.jpg

Steve

Hopefully this forum is for the users and members to discuss things, issues, likes, dislikes, etc.  

The advertisers are here to support the forum in hopes of being seen, discussed (hopefully positively) and obtain/retain customers.  If they are doing a bad job then they can also use the forum information to make improvements.  It's their choice.  

Without the discussion, nobody improves and nobody wins.

I agree, Steve. Nobody here is "bashing" anyone- the discussion is focused solely on a dreadful error regarding the color choice on a diesel engine that is so wrong, it cannot be justified by any excuses. I've seen the EJ&E unit, and Lionel did a fantastic job on the model itself. But the color of this diesel is absolutely awful.

I would have liked to have to seen this one if it was the correct color. Probably would have been a total sell-out for Lionel. 

If your dealer said they will take it back then do it. If Lionel corrects the paint issue then you could reorder. Don't kill yourself over this.

Rod Miller

Maybe newer paint on DMIR locos has gone to a lighter shade judging by all the examples on the interweb? Some look very close to the Lionel version.