York goes public in the Spring of 2017

Anything that draws more attention to our hobby is a good thing to me. Of course in the Musical Instrument trade show it became open to the public and most independent reps get out of there for the public day.  

Security!!??

BIG MISTAKE!

eddie g posted:

BIG MISTAKE!

Time will tell if it's a mistake, Eddie.  My fear is that it will have very little positive effect, but I'm willing to give change a chance. 

Even though I like "my York" just the way it is, I also know that it's not just about me. Essentially, if the York meet never happened again, I'd miss it, but I would still be a train collector/operator who loves his hobby.

But to keep York as it is, Eastern Div has to keep popularity up.  Manufacturers and dealers in dealer halls have to get enough foot traffic to justify their costs in attending.  I can live with it.  Will be interesting to see the price of admission for the public.

eddie g posted:

BIG MISTAKE!

From whose or what perspective?

eddie g posted:

BIG MISTAKE!

LOL!! Eddie, you are so predictable.

I hope you can keep your eyes clean as you continue to bury your head in the sand.

I predict people will still find a reason to complain and TCA membership will drop by a minimum of 25% or more.

Whether it will help the hobby or not that is yet to be seen. Just how much more traffic that is not already there it will attract will be interesting to see. I give them credit for trying. 

If I was dealer and I had tables at York to sell trains, I would be more than happy. The more customers that walk past my tables the better it would be for me. Even if they didn't buy anything, I would be handing out name cards and price lists. Great way to generate more sales.

Open it up.  

Asking for membership is like asking people going to a ham radio show to show their licence before going in.  I got my interest in radio going to such a show here in Houston.  Should work for modeling railroading.

Notice it says:  DEALER HALLS.  Not the whole thing!

Anyway, both hobbies are graying!

so if it's open to public on Friday and Saturday. Why buy a ticket. Oh wait for Thursday. Is there going to be any thing really that great that you have to be there for it on Thursday. Personally I think it's a big mistake if they want to do that what they should do is get the vendors to stick around till 3 or 4 on Saturday and open it up on Saturday. That would be your big draw day anyway. 

Fridays in April?......typically a school/work day.  Can't see much public interest in Friday.  I could be wrong here.

Saturday?...should be interesting!  It may be the one day in which dealers/mfrs will judge their own future for the overall 3-4 day expense of their participation.  

Now, I would hope that any operating layouts would be available to the public, also.  I believe that's part of the overall draw for a public train show.  And since there have been in the past nice layouts in Black and White Halls, would they be moved to Orange, or even the adjacent Brown Hall (empty last April)?  Maybe even MORE layouts?  

And, what about the EDTCA ice cream social Friday night?.....the EDTCA Coffee/Maple Doughnuts on Saturday AM?...both in Orange Hall?  Rhetorical questions at this point, I know, but some of the little gems of York meets for members......IMHO.

I know, I know.....stay tuned.

Anyway, kudos to EDTCA for trying something new.   And, good show, dealers!!!  

KD

One TCA subset that has a periodic show I drive to attend lets members in early, and then is opens to the public.  I do not see that show overwhelmed by kids, women, and unknown buyers after the public opening.  Fairly, I rush through looking for stuff and then split, maybe missing the herd.  If there are people on here whose local TCA branch operates that kind of local meet, what is your experience?  I know this one I attend hands out fliers in general train shows, but advertising York to the public will be a biggie.  Ads in the show sections in all the model magazines, OGR, etc.?  Fliers in eastern Pa. shows?  York locals will have to be "retrained" to learn they are no longer persona non grata.  I am less incentivized to set up where I have to keep a table that long, and be more concerned if I have to leave it, even momentarily, with no vetting of attendees.  Of course, if the public is only allowed in the dealer halls, dealers are usually manned to staff their booths.

I think it is a good thing. The more people attending the show the better.

The nay Sayers and the doubters will keep complaining and if they get they're way the York train show will just fade away in the near future. 

colorado hirailer posted:

Security!!??

TCA membership requires no test for good moral character.

There are both TCA and non-TCA criminals.

However, when a TCA thief strikes, they are smart enough to snatch something of real collectible value.

Take your pick, by all means.

eddie g posted:

BIG MISTAKE!

And for you,  Eddie....as much you would fancy York as a titanic smoking lounge for withering octogenarians, it's time to move on and promote trains for everyone to enjoy.

It think colorado hirailer may be referring to security excluding the public from member halls.

Possibilities:

Membership will drop as Marty suggested.  Maybe not after just one meet with Dealer Halls open Friday/Sat, but certainly if it is done that way for a second occurrence. 

Taking this to the extreme, it could mean the end of (or at least shrinking of) earlier week events like "Thursday at (wherever)", Wednesday night DCS meeting, etc.  Ultimately the meet could see Thursday become as slow or slower than Saturday currently is when all the people signed up as TCA members just to go to York drop out.  This could lead to a return to just Friday-Saturday meets, which might make sense with the apparent dropping of interest.

While many dealers welcome the opening to the public, some will still resist keeping their booth set up until close.  We will see how the general public responds to this.  They may not have much sympathy for the "I've been here for 3 days" complaint that I've heard a few times, even if it is Saturday.

The public may not care.  We will apparently find out in April or May once the effect can be evaluated.

Or, the effect may be minimal and undetectable.  It may not be the cure all or death of the meet some will predict.  Probably closer to the middle than on either extreme.

-Dave

If it helps the hobby I do not see any harm in it. I think it will be a good thing in which the hobby can be seen by more folks and more revenue for the dealers. 

richabr posted:

It think colorado hirailer may be referring to security excluding the public from member halls.

That's probably easy enough to deal with by modifying the public badges slightly.  Same color but with black bars printed along the sides, different color, etc.  Anything that can be quickly observed with just a glance.

-Dave

For years when I was a dealer in the Orange Hall a petition went around to open Dealer Halls to the public.

It was filled with signatures- glad TCA finally listened.

Guys, I can (and have) spent my entire budget in the first 15 minutes after opening on Thursday. So the public gets to pick over the leftovers. No big deal in my book. If it helps to grow the hobby and help the vendors at least break even, great. As for how many of the "public" will attend. Who knows? I honestly cannot recall seeing the masses hanging onto the fences clamoring to get in. I hope it helps, and isn't too little, too late.

They can open it to the public, where are these people going to come from? I dont envision people coming from hours away to check this out (most of them have likely paid their dues or come in as a guest already), so this will gain some locals... thats about it. 

My only real question... how much will they charge the public to get in on Friday and Saturday, such that the membership can still justify paying TCA dues and the meet fee for only the exclusive use of Thursday?

Make York Great Again!

Greg R, do you go to York?

eddie g posted:

Maybe the webmaster should bury his head in the sand. Well, he doesn't have any class for a magazine publisher.

Very mature.

I keep looking for some wisdom.

Cheer up Eddie!  Everything will be ok!  

Boilermaker1 posted:

They can open it to the public, where are these people going to come from? I dont envision people coming from hours away to check this out (most of them have likely paid their dues or come in as a guest already), so this will gain some locals... thats about it. 

My only real question... how much will they charge the public to get in on Friday and Saturday, such that the membership can still justify paying TCA dues and the meet fee for only the exclusive use of Thursday?

TCA Members would still have the exclusive entrance to the Member Halls for Thurs to Sat.

Depending on the cost of Public admission there would be an incentive for Mr Public to joint TCA to experience the "Total York Experience" and see what the Member Halls have to offer. 

I usually only go through the dealer halls anyway on Thursday but that costs me $59.50.  $50.00 membership and $9.50 for a badge.  So if I wait and go on Friday I can save $50.00.  Hmmmmm, I might have to think about that.  That $50.00 would pay for PA turnpike tolls.

Rick

The "Security Guards" in the four Member Halls will have a hard job looking at every badge to prevent the Public from coming in.

RICKC posted:

I usually only go through the dealer halls anyway on Thursday but that costs me $59.50.  $50.00 membership and $9.50 for a badge.  So if I wait and go on Friday I can save $50.00.  Hmmmmm, I might have to think about that.  That $50.00 would pay for PA turnpike tolls.

Rick

I live in South Carolina.  What are tolls?

eddie g posted:

Maybe the webmaster should bury his head in the sand. Well, he doesn't have any class for a magazine publisher.

Shame on you Eddie

Right now, we only know that the general public will be allowed in the Dealer Halls on Friday and Saturday.

At this time we do not know if there are any changes for Thursday what so ever. Also, what will be the hours of operation on Friday and especially Saturday. As we all know Saturday was a shortened day at 2:00. Will it be extended?

jim r

Book a hotel early - Prices for the fall within 10 miles range of the grounds are running $140 to as high as $199. The Spring Hills Suite is booked and if you plan to use points from a reward program - good luck - those rooms are gone. 

Will the member halls still require membership?  

So here's what is going to happen, All the members that only go to the orange hall & purple hall, they will drop there membership, & just pay for Friday & sat. as general public. 

I agree with Eddie's statement above.

And, I wonder if opening to the public will make the member hall tables holders pay Pennsylvania state sales tax?

If that were not to happen I bet many of them would stop coming.

eddie g posted:

So here's what is going to happen, All the members that only go to the orange hall & purple hall, they will drop there membership, & just pay for Friday & sat. as general public. 

If the only value that a TCA member sees is a semi annual show and is willing to drop out because of this change, then the TCA has larger issues they need to be concerned about.

eddie g posted:

So here's what is going to happen, All the members that only go to the orange hall & purple hall, they will drop there membership, & just pay for Friday & sat. as general public. 

Hi Eddie or anyone who can answer these questions.

What is the cost of a TCA Annual Membership?

What is the cost to pay for Friday & Saturday / General Public Tickets? 

Gary