Your thoughts on the Legacy RF-16 Sharknose units!

I didn't realize that the SP ever had any of those.

The non-powered unit has no smoke, and no Legacy module.  For the A-A set you get an orange module, and for the powered B you'll get an orange module.

You can't put the A-unit shell on the B-unit, it won't fit.  You can run a two-wire tether and put speakers in other units.  Harry Henning ran a tether and put a speaker in each of the three in an A-B-A MU configuration, sounds great.

Hi Sam,

I have an ABBA B&O Legacy shark set that I have run on our club's modular layout.  My set is a bit different as I am running a powered A unit along with 2 powered B units and the trailing dummy A unit.  I am running them as a lash-up(Lionel's terms in the manuals).  GRJ is correct about the features-only the powered A unit has sound-the powered B units do not.  All the powered units have smoke and the dummy A may have as well(I can't remember because I don't run them with the smoke on).  Before building the lash-up in the legacy remote,  I assigned each engine its own ID number(both powered and dummy units).  After building the lash-up,  I would suggest putting all the engines on the same track,  but not coupling them together,  and leave maybe a foot or so between them so that when they are all powered up for the first time as a lash-up,  it can be confirmed that they are all traveling in the same direction.  I made the mistake of not doing that and my 2nd powered B unit was actually pulling in the opposite direction of the other 2 powered units!!!  I managed to spin off a few traction tires on that 2nd B unit.  Where the mistake was made,  when I was building the lash-up,  I wanted to have the two trailing units(the 2nd powered B unit and the dummy A unit)  operating in reverse of the 2 lead units,  so it would be AB units back to back.  This can be set up in the remote,  but I didn't pay attention that the command wasn't accepted the first time.  The second time setting up the lash-up,  everything worked ok and the units all operated together.  When set up this way,  the classification lights on the forward running A unit are not lit,  and the classification lights on the trailing A unit are illuminated red.  If you change directions,  the classification lights also change directions.  I also made some changes to the couplers on my units.  I replaced the rear couplers on both A units along with all the couplers on the B units(including the electro couplers) with shorter Lionel fixed couplers in order to bring the gap closer between the bodies.  (There are several threads about this that were posted earlier this year)  If I remember,  the couplers I used shortened the gap from 1 9/16" to 7/8".  Be aware however,  that I am running on our modular layout that has curves from about O120 to O144 on our 4 tracks.  I don't know if these shorter couplers would work on something like an O72 or O80 curve.  As far as operations of the engines,  mine run great and they pull a ton.(they have die cast frames)  The quillable horn has a distinct sound and the engine sounds are also different but it would be much better if all the powered units had engine sounds(as GRJ mentioned above). One thing I forgot,  all the controls are easily accessible by the removal of a lift off housing at the top rear of the roof on all the units.

Nick 

Thx John.

I was under the impression that the non powered A unit also has a module since it has smoke and speed sensing.

The powered B unit has full legacy controls minus sound, yes?

Can you tell me what speaker impedance did he use? will the sound amp take one or more speakers in parallel?

Can I swap B powered guts with the A non powered? and end up with two AB sets, one AB with complete sound and legacy controls, and the other AB with no sound but with legacy and power controls?

Thx Nick..

Have you tried making ABBA under one ID?  if one units moves against another, I guess switching DC motor wires may fix it? Please excuse my ignorance, I am fairly new to legacy electronics

I plan to use Kadee's between the units and in the front but keep only the rear functional if I run them as ABBA..They will run on 072 soon

Sam,

I am a beginner in Legacy myself,  but I have a lot of help from the guys in our club.  When building the lash-up in the Legacy remote,  you assign a train number to that particular lash-up.  You then add the engine id numbers that you want to be part of that train  number.  When finished adding the engines,  I believe you press SET on the remote and then wait for a number of seconds until you hear a couple of horn or whistle blows confirming that the system has accepted all the information that you have entered.  After that,  the next time that you wish to run those engines again as a lash-up,  all you is scroll through the information settings until you find the train number that you assigned it or press the button below the TR icon on the screen and enter the number of your train.  The engines will operate as a unit.  You don't need to switch any wires to reverse an engine in a lash-up.  When you are looking at the Build Train screen on the Legacy remote in the,  there are icons of the engines on the screen which show their direction. There you can change the direction of the engine that you want.  It is easier done than listening to me try to  explain it.   Probably the easiest thing to do, before running the trains  is read through the Legacy System Base/remote instruction manual a time or two(just to get a little understanding of the basics).  Just my 2 cents worth.

Nick

Here's the feature list for the 6-38577 SP non-powered unit.  I'm pretty sure they'd mention stuff like smoke and lighting.  It's nothing but a shell with wheels.

Features

I forgot the other parts of the question.

You just need to make sure the speakers end up totaling at least 8 ohms of impedance to insure you don't damage the audio outputs.  I'd probably just use two 16 ohm speakers and put the audio into the end units, that'll make a big difference.

You may be able to more the total electronic package to the trailing A unit, I haven't looked to see if the trucks are different.  There would be some fooling around with the lights as well, it's not something that I've considered.

Hi John, I may have not explained my self well. I know the NP B unit is just a shell. The A-A set has TWO smoke units and two modules I believe, the B powered unit has full legacy controls and two motors and smoke hence it should have a module.

So my thinking is to either run them as ABBA and simply add speakers in parallel, OR make TWO AB sets by some swapping of parts....At about $550 for the ABBA, this can make up two legacy AB sets for about $275 each and still has smoke and two motors each with a beautiful SP Daylight scheme...

Well, you're right, I didn't get that.

Anyone can please point me to a thread where the RF-16 shells/chassis are lowered to look a bit better? I did a search but did not find it, unless there is no such thread!

Sam,

There are a couple of thread on Lionel Shark modifications. Do an advanced search for:

Lionel PRR RF-16s 3RSinated      and also:

closing the gap on a set of Lionel Sharks

Hope this helps.

Nick

Just to clear up a couple of items.  Only the A-A set has one single orange module.  The one module is all you need as Lionel has programmed the AA set to work together out of the box. (Just like they did for the E-8s).  The powered B only has legacy control, smoke and lighting/electro coupler.  It does not contain any orange module because it would never be used by itself.  It would be part of a train.  Only the A unit has the sound.  The non powered B unit is just a pure shell, nothing in it at all.  I picked up another powered B for a 149.99 blowout for my D&H.  I swapped shells from the the non powered B To the powered B so each would have unique engine numbers In the train.  Now all units smoke (instead of 3 out of 4)and I have lots of pulling power.  

Cool, thx Sean and Nick and everyone