Silver Meteor passenger train

I'd be interested in one, if that's what you're asking.

I would want one if only for the Sun Lounge car.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi..._Hollywood_Beach.jpg

See the windows in the roof. Seems to be inspired by the VW type 2 Samba and to be the prototype of Amtraks Viewliner cars.

This train is of great interest I think to fans of the PRR as well as the Seaboard, and the RF&P.

The '47 Seaboard Budd cars are the same design as the CA Zephyr so it would make sense that Atlas might be able to retool the Zephyr cars for Seaboard configurations while or after the CZ is complete.

Silver Lake,

1956 was the same year that Budd delivered the double decker El Cap cars for the Santa Fe too. These were Pullman Standard cars. Not sure which one was first now!

quote:

Originally posted by GG1 4877:
Silver Lake,

1956 was the same year that Budd delivered the double decker El Cap cars for the Santa Fe too. These were Pullman Standard cars. Not sure which one was first now!

Yeah but the beauty of the Sun Lounges was that it was like a dome car but all on the same level as the rest of the car. No stairs or bridge clearance issues.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveJfr0:
Jim Weaver has a soft spot for Seaboard. I am hopeful they will eventually do a Silver Meteor. I'd definitely get one and reletter to SCL.

That really surprises me. I thought AtlasO's production of southeastern prototypes on the whole was rather weak. However the one road that did seem to get special attention was the Central of Georgia.

I've seen the SAL "E" units described as being "Mint Green", that faded to almost white in the Florida sun.

I'd love to see Silver Meteor, Silver Comet, Silver star cars done, especially the Pullman 10-6 Sleeper "Portsmouth" (hometown). The Sun Lounge Sleepers would also be a treat (I can't imagine how hot they were with those overhead windows).

Between Budd and Pullman there should be plenty of cars to be made.

I see JD Trains had a special run of GGD 80' Heavyweights painted for Seaboard. They're all spoken for last time I looked.

I can't see myself wanting 4 indentical streamlined cars (I wish they would take some of these sets like the one from JD Trains and offer single cars), but I wouldn't mind a 4 or 5 cars set IF the cars were different.

Seaboard had a number of Streamlined/Lightweight Baggage-Dormitory cars built by Budd.

They also had 50, 52, 56, and 60-seat coaches made by Budd, even had some 44-seat Budd coaches purchased from the C&O and 60-seaters purchased from FEC. They also had 52-seat Pullman Coaches, as well as 52-seat Pullman coaches built for C&O.

Another car would be one of the Diners built by Budd or Pullman.

They could do one of their Observation cars built by Budd.

They had a variety of Sleepers built by ACF, Budd, and Pullman, along with the Sun Longe Sleepers (Pullman).

So a decent 5-car train could be made up with the following types:

Baggage Dormitory
Coach
Diner
Observation
Sleeper

I'd like to see them offered individually and maybe the whole 5-car set at a slightly lower price.

Good thing is most of the time trains like the Silver Meteor had cars from different RRs intermixed, I know PRR and NYC cars were often in the consist.

I would love to have a scale length Silver Meteor passenger train. I don't need a Seaboard locomotive since I would run it behind a scale GG1. I would take a Seaboard silver train set over the PRR Congressional train set.

I would also like to see some scale Atlantic Coast Line cars.

Do the OK Engines cars have anything in the way of interiors? I don't see how they can if they build the cars on an individual basis.

Any idea on their prices? Do they come with trucks?

quote:

Originally posted by Bill N:

quote:

Originally posted by DaveJfr0:
Jim Weaver has a soft spot for Seaboard. I am hopeful they will eventually do a Silver Meteor. I'd definitely get one and reletter to SCL.

That really surprises me. I thought AtlasO's production of southeastern prototypes on the whole was rather weak. However the one road that did seem to get special attention was the Central of Georgia.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DaveJfr0:
Jim Weaver has a soft spot for Seaboard. QUOTE]


Dave,

I believe that Jim had a relative ( Uncle maybe? ) that worked for Seaboard when he was young.

GP

quote:

Originally posted by GG1 4877:
This train is of great interest I think to fans of the PRR as well as the Seaboard, and the RF&P.

The '47 Seaboard Budd cars are the same design as the CA Zephyr so it would make sense that Atlas might be able to retool the Zephyr cars for Seaboard configurations while or after the CZ is complete.

Let's make a polite request and hope for the best.

If any of you guys are going to York could you please mention this to Atlas and GGD (and anybody else who will listen ).

There's extensive data available in the form of books as well as the ACL/SAL Historical Society archives if they need reference material.

I believe the Seaboard MTH cars mentioned here are probably the second run of streamlined cars and were silver color. I have the first run which were citrus (yellow) color and were a fantasy paint job by MTH. I have the 7 car set and could be talked out of it for the right price.

Ray

This set should be made now! This set should be a priority over the PRR Congressional, the SP Daylight, the postwar NYC 20th Century Limited, the B&O Columbian, the California Zephyr, etc. which have already been made to scale by K-Line (of course, with some flaws).

I do not understand why GGD and Atlas insist on re-doing these same passenger trains so that they can do them just a bit better than they were done before.

GGD and Atlas: give us something completely new and different!, you will probably be surprised at how well they would sell...

The Silver Meteor is a great candidate since it has appeal to PRR fans as well as SAL fans.

RE Bob Delbridge post on March 09,2010 re details
Okengines@aol.com has details. If someone would show me how to paste to reply from E mail that I received I would be happy to do so.
Some things regarding replying to post are not obvious to me. sorry
Mike prrtrainguy

Mike, You should be able to just "copy" the text of the e-mail by "right-clicking" on your mouse and then using "right-click" again to paste the text into the post. (Forgive me if I misunderstood your message). If that does not work, then you could forward the e-mail to me and I will post it here. My e-mail is in my profile.

Mike, At this point we are offering O gauge straight cars only in Budd type ( corrigated sides and corrigated roof) and in smooth side type ( no corrigations ) . We have no domed or observation cars yet but those are almost ready and will be available later in the year. All of our O- Gauge cars are made to order. There is no in-stock line. For example, If the customer wants a Missouri diner, we make that up from original plans. If Lionel or MTH makes a six car set but the consist was 11 cars, we will make the in betweens. Our cars come assembled but are not painted nor detailed for particular "road" names. Straight cars are $79.95 plus shipping and Observation/ Domed cars will be $110. each when available. Our standard shipping charge is $9 per order ( not per car ) . As stated above , our cars are made using original plans of the actual train cars and makes these more "prototypical" than the toy manufacturers cars. As stated in our web site, a catalog of our HO line, O gauge price list, and explanation of our custom services costs $3 and is available from OK Engines P O Box 355 Mohawk NY 13407

quote:

Originally posted by Jtrain:
Mike, You should be able to just "copy" the text of the e-mail by "right-clicking" on your mouse and then using "right-click" again to paste the text into the post. (Forgive me if I misunderstood your message). If that does not work, then you could forward the e-mail to me and I will post it here. My e-mail is in my profile.

Thanks e mail now on line prrtrainguy

I wonder what they'd need in the way of info in order to build a car?

Here's what I have on the Pullman 10-6 Sleeper "Portsmouth"



Here's the aisle side of a HO 10-6 model of the "Norfolk"



and the Bedroom side:



Not a bad price, depending on what is included. Is this just the shell, or does it include a floor and trucks? How about windows? Maybe if we could get OK to show us a sample it might generate some interest (I know I'm interested already!).

I just sent them an email with the pictures I posted. Let's see what happens!

I think that I will send an e-mail to OK Engines too. Maybe if they get enough interest, they can do a custom run of the 1950's Silver Meteor, lettered and with the unique Hollywood Beach "Sun Lounge" included. That would be a really nice looking set. I particularly like the observation car with the California Zephyr style tail end.

I'd buy a Silver Star or a Silver Meteor done right.

Thanks for posting this. I am now excited about the possibility of a Seaboard passenger consist. Maybe one day I will find an RF&P E8A set to and simulate the Washington Union Station engine change.

Below is information on the Silver Meteor consist and where I obtained it.
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Seaboard Air Line Railroad


Unofficial Home Page

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Last updated October 9, 2008


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Passenger Trains:
SILVER METEOR
In 1939, they introduced the first streamliner into Florida service, the legendary Silver Meteor. Modeled on the wildly successful all-coach streamliners introduced by the Burlington and Santa Fe railroads in the west to attract the thrifty, depression-era travelers back to the rails, they placed the Budd-built all-stainless steel streamliner in service February 2, 1939.

Diesel powered, with all-reclining seat coaches, diner, tavern-coach and coach-observation car, the streamliner proved so popular that the Seaboard had to order new cars the next year and even added Pullman sleeping cars forward of the coaches (in dull Pullman Green spoiling the all-stainless silvery look). After the war, the Seaboard re-equipped their trains with new coaches and observation cars with a full lounge. They gradually added streamlined sleepers as they became available, until the train hit its peak from 1956 on with the new Pullman-Standard coaches and the beautiful Sun-Lounge, with 5 double bedrooms and a lounge with giant picture windows all the way to the roof, with windows on the roof. With ultra modern furniture and driftwood lamps, the car presented a very cheery, Florida atmosphere for Pullman (1st class) sleeping car passengers.



The Pullman Sun Lounge on the Silver Meteor from the April 30, 1967 timetable

The Silver Meteor was a 2:50 pm departure from New York, 7:05 pm from Washington DC and arriving the next day around 4 pm in Miami; Northbound, it was typically a 9:00 am from Miami arriving next morning in Washington DC around 6:00am, and arriving New York around 10:30 am.


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From the December 17, 1965 Timetable:



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Until the advent of Amtrak and for a while after, the Seaboard (later as Seaboard Coast Line merged with Atlantic Coast Line in July, 1967) always maintained the Silver Meteor as a classic streamliner from nose to tail, always ending in the trademark round-end observation car long after every other railroad in the U.S., with the exception of Burlington's California Zepher, removed the observation cars as un-economical.



The classic Budd-built 1947 Tavern-Observation car that always graced
the rear of the Silver Meteor as well as the cover of all the timetables


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Seaboard Coast Line's northbound Silver Meteor at 79 MPH, 'leaning into' the
big curve at Opa Locka, FL, August, 1970

This is how I like to remember her - three big 'E' units roaring , running like the wind, me, standing on the platform of the first car, top door open, taking it all in, the breath-taking speed, the deafening roar of the engines, the banging of the draft gear between the cars, the smell of hot oil, rolling, rolling, rolling with a sense of urgency, the feeling that somehow I was a part of this magnificent juggernaught sweeping all before it in defiance of the elements.


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The Silver Meteor in the '60s would be typically arranged as noted below. Cars were positioned in that order from front to rear - between New York and Wildwood, Florida, the St. Petersburg and Venice section was in the middle of the train, its diner serving the Pullman sleeping car passengers. The train was split at Wildwood, Florida. A switch-engine would attach to the Observation car and they would uncouple and pull out the section going to Tampa, and at Tampa, some cars would be sent south to Sarasota and Venice, while the rest continued to St. Petersburg. The main Miami section would highball down the tangents out of Wildwood, often topping 100 miles per hour between Sebring and West Palm Beach:

Equipment, Winter Season, 1964:
(from Timetable effective December 15, 1964)

SILVER METEOR












Train Numbers 57 Soutbound, 58 Northbound

Type Car .....................Car No........Between:

Baggage-Dormitory.................................New York-Miami
10 Roomettes 6 Double Bedrooms....R-356 B-49 .....Washington-Miami
10 Roomettes 6 Double Bedrooms....S-101 B-50 .....New York-Miami
5 Dbl Bdrms, 2 Cpts, 2 Drawing Rm S-103 B-52 .....New York-Miami
10 Roomettes 6 Double Bedrooms....S-104 B-53 .....New York-Miami
5 Dbl Bdrms - Sun Lounge......... S-105 B-54 .....New York-Miami


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11 Double Bedrooms................S-108 B-49......New York-St.Petersburg
Diner.............................................New York-St.Petersburg
10 Roomettes 6 Double Bedrooms....S-106 B-48 .....New York-Venice
10 Roomettes 6 Double Bedrooms....S-104 B-53 .....New York-St.Petersburg
Coach (52 Reclining Seats)........19-W..19-W .....New York-St.Petersburg
Coach (52 Reclining Seats)........20-W..20-W .....New York-Venice
Coach (52 Reclining Seats)........18-W..18-W .....New York-St.Petersburg


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Diner.............................................New York-Miami
Coach (52 Reclining Seats)........13-E..13-E .....New York-Miami
Coach (52 Reclining Seats)........14-E..14-E .....New York-Miami
Coach (52 Reclining Seats)........15-E..15-E .....New York-Miami
Tavern-Observation*...............................New York-Miami

*Round-end

Accomodation Notes:

Roomettes - Single room, about the size of a twin bed, with pull-down bed from the wall behind the seat. To use the toilet, the bed has to be pushed up into the wall. With the bed down, most Roomettes required the occupant to open the door first before getting out of bed, with a zippered curtain so you could stand in the aisle to fold up your bed to use the toilet. more moderen ones had a cutaway bed so you could stand up without opening th door.

Dbl Bdrms = Double Bedrooms - accomodation for two, can be opened en-suite with other bedrooms to accomodate four, private toilet..

Cpts = Compartments - accomodation for two, larger than Bedroom, private toilet.

Drawing Rm = Drawing Room - accomodation for three, private toilet


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LINKS:

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Excellent source of information on the Seaboard and Atlanitc Coast Line Railroads
SAL/ACL HO & N Scale car sides for sale!
Return to Mike Mayer's (Suzuya's) Homepage - click on image below (at you own risk):



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Silver Meteor consist and where I obtained it.

Your set is here! http://archive.liveauctioneers...s/8456/0983_1_lg.jpg

Got a response from OK Engines (Ted Brebeck):

(snip) At this time we are only making O gauge cars in Budd style ( corrugated sides and corrugated roof ) and completely smoothside pullman. We do have plans to make Pullman Streamliners sometime next year but have no definite timeframe as of yet. (snip)

So...even though the Pullman cars are not available now, I'm still going to look into the Budd Streamlined SAL cars from OK Engines.

Did the Seaboard Air Line roster a couple of vista dome cars? If so, what trains were they assign to?

Chessie Man,

If they did I've never seen a photo of them. From what I've read the reason for the Sun Lounge cars was due to clearances in tunnels, because a vista dome wouldn't fit. I'm sure if they did there would be a picture of it somewhere. The strange thing is I can't recall any tunnels between Virginia and Florida, so maybe it was other roadway clearances that were the issue. Come to think of it, I believe there is a tunnel (collapsed with a steamer inside) in Richmond.

The MTH SAL Full Length Vista Dome is a fantasy piece. It's a shame really, as my wife insisted I buy one! It looks nice but...

Never mind the dome inquiry. I found out that Atlantic Coast Line purchased them secondhand in the late 1960s and they saw service in the merged Seaboard Coast Line.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Delbridge:
Chessie Man,

If they did I've never seen a photo of them. From what I've read the reason for the Sun Lounge cars was due to clearances in tunnels, because a vista dome wouldn't fit. I'm sure if they did there would be a picture of it somewhere. The strange thing is I can't recall any tunnels between Virginia and Florida, so maybe it was other roadway clearances that were the issue. Come to think of it, I believe there is a tunnel (collapsed with a steamer inside) in Richmond.

The MTH SAL Full Length Vista Dome is a fantasy piece. It's a shame really, as my wife insisted I buy one! It looks nice but...

There may have been underpass issues south of Alexandria. I don't know. North of Alexandria there were issues with tunnels in D.C. and Baltimore. IIRC te RF&P ran into trouble with at least one class of their steamers that wouldn't fit through the D.C. tunnels.

IIRC there were two different railroad tunnels in Richmond. The first was part of the route connecting the RF&P to a predecessor of the ACL and was abandoned when the roads built a new line to the west. The second was part of the original mainline of the C&O which was abandoned when the C&O acquired the former Richmond & Allegheny line which ran along the James River. It is my understanding that the tunnel with the steamer inside it was the C&O tunnel.

quote:

It is my understanding that the tunnel with the steamer inside it was the C&O tunnel.

Thanks Bill, I think you're right on that.

One reason there may not have been amy "Vista Domes" is because of the lack of any "vistas" on the east coast shoreline compared to the scenes on the left side of the country. The Blue Ridge sure is purty though and would make any passenger train look good

It is the catenary in the tunnels that is/was the problem. The B&O had a couple of domes that ran out of DC going to the west. Here is a link to a picture of one:

http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-highd-sbr.jpg

And another:

http://rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-dome.jpg

As you can see, the domes are somewhat lower that their western brothers.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill N:

There may have been underpass issues south of Alexandria. I don't know. North of Alexandria there were issues with tunnels in D.C. and Baltimore. IIRC te RF&P ran into trouble with at least one class of their steamers that wouldn't fit through the D.C. tunnels.

That would have been the RF&P's General Class 4-8-4s. They were too heavy to cross the Potomac River on Long Bridge.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Delbridge:
Got a response from OK Engines (Ted Brebeck):

(snip) At this time we are only making O gauge cars in Budd style ( corrugated sides and corrugated roof ) and completely smoothside pullman. We do have plans to make Pullman Streamliners sometime next year but have no definite timeframe as of yet. (snip)

So...even though the Pullman cars are not available now, I'm still going to look into the Budd Streamlined SAL cars from OK Engines.

Since the above does not state one way or other, do their cars include interiors, painted or decaled exteriors for names and numbers etc., trucks, undercarriage details and couplers?
I am very interested obviously since I started the post to begin with, but you raised legitimate questions that need to be answered before I commit to this enterprise.
Since their prices appear to be significantly less than other custom suppliers, they need some leeway. Please keep us all advised. Thanks

From what I found on their web site there's no mention of interiors. Here's a link to what they say about the O scale cars:

OK ENGINES O SCALE PASSENGER CARS

The link does mention needle bearing axles and Talgo style trucks, along with some other detail pieces.

I plan on contacting them again tomorrow or Friday about getting a Budd 52-seat coach made. I used to have a link for O scale seats but lost it last computer replacement. OK also has an O scale catalog which may have seats listed, but I need to get the catalog to see what parts they do have.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill N:

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Delbridge:
Chessie Man,

If they did I've never seen a photo of them. From what I've read the reason for the Sun Lounge cars was due to clearances in tunnels, because a vista dome wouldn't fit. I'm sure if they did there would be a picture of it somewhere. The strange thing is I can't recall any tunnels between Virginia and Florida, so maybe it was other roadway clearances that were the issue. Come to think of it, I believe there is a tunnel (collapsed with a steamer inside) in Richmond.

The MTH SAL Full Length Vista Dome is a fantasy piece. It's a shame really, as my wife insisted I buy one! It looks nice but...

There may have been underpass issues south of Alexandria. I don't know. North of Alexandria there were issues with tunnels in D.C. and Baltimore. IIRC te RF&P ran into trouble with at least one class of their steamers that wouldn't fit through the D.C. tunnels.

IIRC there were two different railroad tunnels in Richmond. The first was part of the route connecting the RF&P to a predecessor of the ACL and was abandoned when the roads built a new line to the west. The second was part of the original mainline of the C&O which was abandoned when the C&O acquired the former Richmond & Allegheny line which ran along the James River. It is my understanding that the tunnel with the steamer inside it was the C&O tunnel.

Well the Autotrain has had it's terminal just south of Alexanria in Lorton VA since the services 1970's beginning. They started with both Vista domes and Full-length domes as well as enclosed CN auto carriers. There was a reason that the terminal was here and not further north and that had to do with clearance issues.

The C&O and B&O domes had very low tight profiles. They have angled windows versus the western style high clearance domes.

There were only two reasons why domes were not used in Washington D.C.:

1. Catenary. PRR would not run occupied dome cars under its live catenary. The catenary started in Potomac Yard in Alexandria and ran north. B&O had to clear out its dome cars before they entered the Washington Union Station terminal district.

2. The tunnel under Capitol Hill from southwest Washington D.C. to Union Station in northeast. There were tight clearances in that twin bore. It is interesting that Amtrak had the tunnel floor lowered to accommodate Super-liner cars on the Cardinal. The other track was undercut a few years ago to accommodate the VRE bi-level commuter cars.

The reason that the Auto Train terminal is located in Lorton Virginia instead of further north in Virginia was because it was the closest spot to D.C. that had enough available real estate to accommodate the auto-rail terminal and its close proximity to Interstate 95. There are no clearance restrictions for domes between SRO interlocking (south end of Long Bridge) and points south.

I've got another email in to the OK Engines folks about getting a 52-seat Budd coach done for my Seaboard passenger train. I included all the questions everyone had mentioned here and hope to hear from them today.

I was looking at photos of the Budd cars and noticed "Pullman" on the sides. I know Pullman had their grip loosened of their monopoly over passenger cars and other companies (Budd, ACF) could then make cars. I guess Budd used some of Pullman's drawings to build from and that's why "Pullman" was on the sides, because they used their technology?