MTH is still in business.

Hi Pat,

I have been looking through your custom runs from MTH and making list but as a Western Maryland fan did Lionel purchase the MTH the consolidation and challenger steam molds?

Terrance

I'm glad I bought my 64' Woodside passenger cars at MTH prices, I just saw the Lionel prices!

Hey Pat, great summary, but you left out what MTH is NOT doing - Charging hobbyists almost 100% price increases on their special runs of engines, rolling stock. and accessories.  We appreciate the mild, in-line with inflation, non-exorbitant price increases. Thanks! LOL!

Hey Pat,

A great write-up, thank you for posting it.  You have some pretty cool, customizations from MTH as well.

Have a great day

Todd

Let me add to what Pat is saying, they are not going away. Mike signed a long term lease for this warehouse which is of no value for someone who lives in Florida.

Scott Smith

I appreciate Pat stepping up and clarifying what took place.  There has been a lot of nonsense posted since yesterday.

Great post.  Thanks, Pat.  I love getting MTH's "Special Announcements".  They feel like catalog pages sent one at a time. 

@MichRR714 posted:

I appreciate Pat stepping up and clarifying what took place.  There has been a lot of nonsense posted since yesterday.

Nonsense indeed!

Thank you Pat and Scott for your input.

Thanks for the update, Pat!  Great to hear! 

Thank you Pat, your comments are great reading, keep us informed, also, you’re a great ambassador of our hobby and your special runs are fantastic. Happy Railroading Everyone

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm glad I bought my 64' Woodside passenger cars at MTH prices, I just saw the Lionel prices!

Yeah, well, all that extra ink to print "Lionel" on the box instead of "MTH" costs a ton

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm glad I bought my 64' Woodside passenger cars at MTH prices, I just saw the Lionel prices!

Yesserie. But the decoration on the Lionel PRR cars will look superior to the mth ones done so far...if Lionel gets the colors correct!

@MichRR714 posted:

I appreciate Pat stepping up and clarifying what took place.  There has been a lot of nonsense posted since yesterday.

Nonsense on the forum Charlie????....Never.    Its amazing what just a "couple" of Lionel fans can stir up.

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Yesserie. But the decoration on the Lionel PRR cars will look superior to the mth ones done so far...if Lionel gets the colors correct!

I'm quite happy with the MTH versions, and I wouldn't count on the colors being correct.

" I'm quite happy with the MTH versions, and I wouldn't count on the colors being correct. "

The PRR colors for example.

@RickO posted:

Nonsense on the forum Charlie????....Never.    Its amazing what just a "couple" of Lionel fans can stir up.

There is one forum poster who I'm starting to think is on the Lionel payroll ?

Thanks, Pat, for a useful and succinct post that sums up things pretty darn well.

Pat, Thank you for posting this great information!!!

@Arthur posted:

There is one forum poster who I'm starting to think is on the Lionel payroll ?

@Arthur Now that would explain a lot!!

@Arthur posted:

There is one forum poster who I'm starting to think is on the Lionel payroll ?

One is on the payroll and maybe the other.....an apprentice?  Lol!

Timing is sumptin' else...In the midst of a ramp up of national inflation Lionel is going to be marketing certain MTH products at a "Lion share" price point.

Imagine, we now have the privilege of buying MTH designed products, made in MTH factories with MTH molds at grossly increased prices.  The perfect storm.

Me thinks that one needs to stock up on secondary market offerings asap before the present used car inflation model hits model trains.

Hopefully this opportunistic money grab wakes up some folks to the need of personal money management.

What has been posted in the past and also what has just been posted by PATSTRAINS, raises a lot more questions relating to MTH going out of business.

Makes one wonder what was behind it all . 

Could it have been to hype up to unload all the dead inventory in the large warehouse, down sizing, sell off some tooling, increase sales to aquire the rare collectable MTH trains that will no longer be available ??

I've learned long ago, like all companies, they are in it to make money.

Ironically, the fact that a thread like this would even need to be started speaks volumes of the current state of MTH. Can you imagine all the puzzled looks and questions if someone posted: “Hey everyone! I just talked to Charles Ro and guess what? Lionel is STILL in business!”

As Shakespeare said: “The Lady doth protest to much”

@MichRR714 posted:

I appreciate Pat stepping up and clarifying what took place.  There has been a lot of nonsense posted since yesterday.

Yes, there has. Then again, some of the nonsense can make for fun reading. Sort of like the National Inquirer; you know the stories are fake, but they are fun to read anyway!

So who has the molds for the GP-35, RS-1 and RS-3?

Thank you Pat for keeping us up to date on the information regarding MTH Electric Trains.

I would be quite happy to see Bantam engines available again for entry level sets or separate sale for those of us lacking deep pockets (IF Lionel sells at a reasonable price).

Thanks for the update, Pat!

@Tom Tee posted:

Me thinks that one needs to stock up on secondary market offerings asap before the present used car inflation model hits model trains.

Tom,

It already has.  I was so lucky to buy many long-sought-after items, C-8 through pristine NOS, in 2016, 2017 and 2018.

Almost all of it has doubled in price, based upon a review of the same product numbers sold within the last year.

Particularly amusing is a Proto 1 C&O 2-6-6-6 Premier Allegheny (20-3017-1) that I had wanted forever, essentially NOS, never run, picked up for $290.00 in January of 2018.  Asking prices are more than double that now, and actual selling prices are coming up on double quickly.

Mike

I'm only posting this here because Pat was good enough to insert some reliable info into all the speculation.

Does anyone have a reliable idea which Premier models Lionel has acquired? A contact of mine has mentioned the Triplex steamer, which seems to me an obvious choice, but MTH once did the DDA40X diesel in various fantasy schemes, including Santa Fe, which are nowhere to be found any more. Lionel has never made either of these models, nor the same range of cab forwards MTH has. This includes the AC-4 Lionel cataloged many years ago (2008/9 I think) but never made, I assume because of tooling costs.

A number of Premier engines are really iconic stuff that I would like to see reissued as Legacy models, although I expect prices will be (very) high.

So much misinformation and conjecture by certain people. Here is the official announcement from MTH and it’s consistent with what Pat has posted. Note that 80% of the company and product lines remain with the new mth, hardly as is depicted by the usual chorus and still a nice counter weight to Lionel, particularly for those that expect reasonable prices for their trains and don’t want to pay shakedown prices. MTH isn’t going anywhere, even for the “game change” cool-aid drinkers, LOL!

"Note that 80% of the company and product lines remain with the new mth, "

The goal was to sell 100% of the company.  That only 20% was sold could be viewed as a negative.  Hopefully we all stay healthy and mentally intact.  Come back in 12 or 24 months and we'll see whose speculations are correct, the Kool-Aid drinkers or the cockeyed optimists . For your sake and that of the MTH enthusiasts, I hope you are correct, but the facts on the ground don't look all that terrific for the continued long term existence of anything remotely recognizable as the MTH of the previous 25 years.  Remember that Cassandra and Jeremiah turned out to be correct.

All the tooling was and is for sale. The tooling that is left is the tooling that neither Atlas nor Lionel wanted.

@Landsteiner posted:

"Note that 80% of the company and product lines remain with the new mth, "

The goal was to sell 100% of the company.  That only 20% was sold could be viewed as a negative.  Hopefully we all stay healthy and mentally intact.  Come back in 12 or 24 months and we'll see whose speculations are correct, the Kool-Aid drinkers or the cockeyed optimists . For your sake and that of the MTH enthusiasts, I hope you are correct, but the facts on the ground don't look all that terrific for the continued long term existence of anything remotely recognizable as the MTH of the previous 25 years.  Remember that Cassandra and Jeremiah turned out to be correct.

Yeah, and the geniuses here that said it was impossible for mth to sell or transfer ownership of its foreign tooling were completely wrong. As for what the “goal” was,  we can all read what mth said and judge the lack of a complete sale accordingly. You take it as a negative for the continued success of the remaining company, many others don’t particularly in light of the current pricing structures, but I certainly agree with you that looking at the market in 12 to 24 months will definitely give us a better read on reality. Competition is a wonderful thing and how markets change is often not what most often predict.  We shall see.

Lionel's biggest win is the starter set market.  They really do not have any competition there.  MTH IMO is doing well with the special runs in smaller quantities.  Personally I think they're here for the near future.  I suspect there is more going on with MTH than we know and some would like to believe.  They still have some great tooling and as long as they have the resources to keep going most likely will.

I'm not sure why a few folks here seem to read into things more than others.  I'm sure at one point MTH's goal was to sell it all but things change and the last year of special runs showed them there is a market.  While they may not be putting out 200 page catalogs anymore, maybe they are happy where they are now.  We should be too because they are still around.

It's sad that the brand wars have been reignited by a few.  OGR was better when we didn't have this nonsense.

I wonder why some Lionel fanboys wander into a thread with the title "MTH is still in business"?  Oh that's right: if at first you don't succeed, troll, troll again!

I packed up my trains in ~2010, sold quit a bit, but decided to hand on to some local to me roads.

After reading a bit for a couple weeks, I see a lot has changed. I've only found one item I've missed out on that I'd probably like to have had (the WIU).

I suspect no matter how things shake out, life will go on.

Im just happy to find out all my PS2 engines are fully functional and as smooth as ever after unboxing from over 10 years in storage (all be it in climate controlled environment).

I'd like to see MTH keep on keepin on.

"I wonder why some Lionel fanboys wander into a thread"

Good point.  I think we need some system of stopping MTH fanboys from posting on Lionel threads and Lionel fanboys posting on MTH threads.  I would like to nominate you as chair of the Central Committee for the Defense of the Faiths to make such classifications.  OGR can fill the rest of the Central Committee by popular vote, with you having veto power, of course.

Or perhaps we could have an honor system?  You must affirm under oath that you have spent at least $300 on new MTH products to comment on MTH threads, and similarly for for Lionel threads.

That should make for less tribal and more open discussion without rude interruptions by people who post unpopular opinions for the tribe in question.

(The above is meant as a joke).

it’s like a mini Ogauge Rorschach test, LOL! One side sees the sale of a small subset of tooling as having only negative implications, not a change of plans when the entire business wasn’t sold for the asking price  or that a company may have wanted to shed some less performing assets to better emerge in a reorganization, as happens all the time in business. Likewise, the other side refuses to acknowledge that the sale of any tooling, even a small amount, does have significant implications for those that want Lionel electronics in those engines. The whole thing is pretty funny!