3D Printing the JLC GG1 Sideframes

Thanks John.  I'm in for 2 engines.

Happy holidays!!

I have some thoughts.

1) While it would be great to have a replacement that is fully-functional and lets the locomotive run like new, I'd settle for being able to put it on the layout for brief runs and have it sit on a display shelf and look pretty.

2) The challenge is going to be the fidelity of the scan. If we can get that without having to damage a good sideframe like we had to with the metal casting process, we have options. The resolution on resin printers has gotten really good, I'd be interested in trying to print them a couple different ways to see what works.

I think the big issue will indeed be the fidelity of the scan, everything hinges on how well that's done.  As for printing them, I am quite confident that they can be printed with excellent quality even on an FDM printer.  I'm pretty new to the 3D printing arena, but I've been quite impressed with some of the print quality I've gotten out of my Creality K1C.  I'm sure sideframes printed with my FDM printer will easily pass the 2 foot test.

The quality of the scan is clearly going to the lion's share of the work from what I've seen.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

...I'm sure sideframes printed with my FDM printer will easily pass the 2 foot test...

Oh my...that comment triggered an old memory!

I once had a 1956 Ford that had a 50/50 paint job. It looked fine at 50 feet or going by at 50 mph. Any closer or slower and it was awful.

Seriously, if you guys can make this happen, it will be a great project for the OGR 3D Catalog.

john

If you have a good picture of the sideframe I can make a design of it to print.

@AlanRail posted:

If you have a good picture of the sideframe I can make a design of it to print.

Alan, the best way would probably be to have an actual sideframe to see close-up details.  I do have a virgin JLC GG1 with perfect sideframes, so I could take one off.  Obviously, I want it back in the same condition!

What did you think of my idea to print it in logical parts.  From what I know, it would be quite difficult to make a truly quality print of the whole thing in one shot.  I know that for my limited 3D printing experience, I have a much easier time printing stuff with details in relief flat with the detailed print facing up.

There is repetition in sideframes.

So designing one 1/2 of the part is usually all that is required.

Then I mirror that design into the repeated parts.

The connected part must be accurate so it can be bolted on.

True, but the left and right sides of the GG1 sideframes are not truly symmetrical, there are numerous detail differences on opposite sides.  Also, as you say, the actual printed size has to be exactly right as the pilot truck mount swivels on the end of the sideframe assembly.  That's another reason why I thought that printing the mounting plate in the center separately might be a good idea, I'm sure there'll be some fine tuning there.

is this the JLC model?

there is symmetry in both.

an idea is to design a 3D model then provide a .stl file that can be used by everyone here.

the .stl can be uploaded to various 3D printing facilities like Xometry or Sculpteo.

and for a little more money get a PET or Nylon or even a $$ metal model back.

WISHFUL THINKING: Of course what would be nicer is if MTH or LIONEL provided us with detailed drawings or their 3D models.

Alan, while they look similar, the two sides are NOT the same if you look a little closer.

All,

If there is anything I can do to facilitate this, please let me know.

I too, have a set of perfect side frames that are available for scanning.

Thanks everyone for your efforts here.

Dave

I have an older Lionel GG1 that was donated to my club. It looks like a 3332 or a similar number. Numbers and stripes are worn off. I am cleaning it up with some passenger cars to just be a static display piece. If  you need to borrow the parts, please let me know before I reassemble.

My Kline EP3 also has disintegrating side frames.

@DMASSO posted:

I have an older Lionel GG1 that was donated to my club. It looks like a 3332 or a similar number. Numbers and stripes are worn off. I am cleaning it up with some passenger cars to just be a static display piece. If  you need to borrow the parts, please let me know before I reassemble.

The older semi-scale GG1 models have totally different sideframes.   The sideframes in question are specific to the Lionel JLC scale GG1 models.

Ok, Got it.

John

Okay not exactly similar but parts of side frame do repeat.

There are repeating elements.

If you guys are able to do this I'm in for at lease one or two sets. I have a GG1 sitting here for a while now that needs side frames

Thanks, Alex

MY IDEA is to create a 3D computer model in .stl format for you all to use.

I could print these in resin on my printer, but if you want a better/stronger model have it printed by a 3rd party 3D printer that I suggested above.

There is a cost to do that with 3rd parties.

However, the cost would be lower the more copies you make. AND these other print-farms can print in stronger materials than me,  like nylon or PET and even metal.

What happened to Hennings producing these a while back?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

This discussion started in another thread and I thought it might make more sense for it to have it's own thread.

I'd love to see this happen.  I was thinking about the sideframes, and I had an idea.  It might make sense to create them in multiple parts.  The actual sideframe could be a part, it would be easy to print them facing up, shouldn't require any supports.  Then print the center section with provisions to screw the sideframes to the center section.

Looking at the complete sideframe, I think it's going to be a lot more difficult to print that all as one piece and get a quality print.  Obviously, getting a good quality scan is the major step in creating these.

In order to print these frames you need a commercial printed. I am still waiting on my friend to get some down time to print a few. His printer set back his company 125 grand.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

This discussion started in another thread and I thought it might make more sense for it to have it's own thread.

I'd love to see this happen.  I was thinking about the sideframes, and I had an idea.  It might make sense to create them in multiple parts.  The actual sideframe could be a part, it would be easy to print them facing up, shouldn't require any supports.  Then print the center section with provisions to screw the sideframes to the center section.

Looking at the complete sideframe, I think it's going to be a lot more difficult to print that all as one piece and get a quality print.  Obviously, getting a good quality scan is the major step in creating these.

I think of this Lionel misses the boat again, they should put up a thing on their website. We’re going Manufacture these side frames for the GG-1 They need to do a build to order, on any part that is now obsolete. There’s a lot of money to be made. It was just nice if they cared a little.

There is no money to be made on random parts with small runs.

@AlanRail posted:

MY IDEA is to create a 3D computer model in .stl format for you all to use.

I could print these in resin on my printer, but if you want a better/stronger model have it printed by a 3rd party 3D printer that I suggested above.

There is a cost to do that with 3rd parties.

However, the cost would be lower the more copies you make. AND these other print-farms can print in stronger materials than me,  like nylon or PET and even metal.

Most of us with FDM printers could print in PETg.  My printer will print nylon filament, but I haven't actually tried it yet.  I should be able to print with carbon fiber filament as well, but I think PETg would be my choice for these.

@AlanRail posted:

John

Okay not exactly similar but parts of side frame do repeat.

There are repeating elements.

Correct, a lot of the sideframe does look the same, but there are some key differences that would have to be accommodated.

@MartyE posted:

What happened to Hennings producing these a while back?

The guy doing the molding moved and started building a house, kinda' left us high and dry.

@ThatGuy posted:

In order to print these frames you need a commercial printed. I am still waiting on my friend to get some down time to print a few. His printer set back his company 125 grand.

Not really true, the ones that Henning's molded were done in plastic and worked just fine, I have a set on one of the silver JLC GG1's.  I've run it for hours with ten 18" passenger cars without any issues at all.

3D printing these with something like PETg should be plenty strong, this isn't a load bearing piece.

I have a clean engine as well and am very interested to see what sort of 3d scan I can get of the part once the scanner gets here. To @AlanRail's point, it's probably going to need to be cleaned up in post regardless, but hopefully it'll be a better starting point than just a high res picture and some measurements.

@ThatGuy posted:

I think of this Lionel misses the boat again, they should put up a thing on their website. We’re going Manufacture these side frames for the GG-1 They need to do a build to order, on any part that is now obsolete. There’s a lot of money to be made. It was just nice if they cared a little.

Lionel doesn’t give a hoot once the product is out of their warranty. We’ve proven this time & time again on older products with documented known catastrophic failures. It’s up to us cottage industries to come up with service solutions, and make them marketable for end users. I know John’s come up with a bunch,  Pete’s come up with a bunch, and I’ve come up with a bunch. Its all we can do with this hobby……

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Lionel doesn’t give a hoot once the product is out of their warranty. We’ve proven this time & time again on older products with documented known catastrophic failures. It’s up to us cottage industries to come up with service solutions, and make them marketable for end users. I know John’s come up with a bunch,  Pete’s come up with a bunch, and I’ve come up with a bunch. Its all we can do with this hobby……

Pat

I know Pat, I have fixed many obsolete boards for friends. Its just a shame thats all.

Have a great Christmas.

@ThatGuy posted:

Its just a shame thats all.

It's not a shame.  It's simply a fact -- and it has been for a long, long time.

Sometimes such occurrences happen occasionally, sometimes perhaps too often, but when they do they are largely tolerable to most of us because we are by-and-large tinkerers, and so we will simply accept it.  We'll just fix the problem ourselves instead of complaining to the manufacturer, or sending it back, or both.

It's a natural characteristic of hobbyists who work with their hands -- which we are very proud to be.

Mike

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think the big issue will indeed be the fidelity of the scan, everything hinges on how well that's done.  As for printing them, I am quite confident that they can be printed with excellent quality even on an FDM printer.  I'm pretty new to the 3D printing arena, but I've been quite impressed with some of the print quality I've gotten out of my Creality K1C.  I'm sure sideframes printed with my FDM printer will easily pass the 2 foot test.

The quality of the scan is clearly going to the lion's share of the work from what I've seen.

John,

If you want to try resin prints out, I would be more than happy to print some out for you. I have a ELEGOO Saturn 3 and have gotten some spectacular prints out of it.

I can't run the JLCs with max 0-42 curves on my layout, so I'll stick with my Williams scale GG1s but I am more than happy to help the cause

Bryce

@Oscale_Trains_Lover_ posted:

John,

If you want to try resin prints out, I would be more than happy to print some out for you. I have a ELEGOO Saturn 3 and have gotten some spectacular prints out of it.

I can't run the JLCs with max 0-42 curves on my layout, so I'll stick with my Williams scale GG1s but I am more than happy to help the cause

Bryce

I think the first major step is to get a good 3D model.  I don't know if that printer can print something the size of the sideframes, they're over 8" long.  If we can get a good 3D model, that's probably 90% of the battle.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

It's not a shame.  It's simply a fact -- and it has been for a long, long time.

Sometimes such occurrences happen occasionally, sometimes perhaps too often, but when they do they are largely tolerable to most of us because we are by-and-large tinkerers, and so we will simply accept it.  We'll just fix the problem ourselves instead of complaining to the manufacturer, or sending it back, or both.

It's a natural characteristic of hobbyists who work with their hands -- which we are very proud to be.

Mike

I think it’s both Mike. It’s a shame and the fact of life I think the public in general which we are a part of has just become used to the fact that companies make things that just don’t work and we have to fix them. I find it sad and I said that because I look at other hobbies and I say to myself, wow these companies want you to stay with them and go the extra mile. It is what it is it’s great that we can do it but at the end of the day should we actually be fixing 2000 and $3000 products within a year or two? Yes I am also guilty of buying them.

Have a good Christmas.

For whatever reason, we are stuck with this situation.  I doubt anything we say here is going to change the fact that Lionel isn't going to supply new sideframes for the JLC GG1 engines.