3rd Rail Wishlist Request Future Engines

third rail posted:

At my club EVERYONE has a 4-8-4 because all the manufacturers made tons of them, but no one has or runs switch engines. It's one thing to run a long train with a big engine at the point. But it's just as satisfying to break up that train and make a new one for the next run. IMO switching a yard or industrial sidings can be more fun than watching a train chase its caboose . If manufacturers could bring to market a reasonably priced switch engine and continue to produce it over the years, there would be enough interest amongst us hobbyists that they would not have to resort to "built to order" sales. I would rather buy 4 switchers for the price of one $2000 built to order road engine that I have no use for. What I'm  saying is I think built to order stifles the hobby because if not enough preorders are received the company does not manufacture the product. 

I agree that there are not nearly enough "small" steam engines on the market.  3rd Rail has offered several over the years, but the reality of the marketplace (at least in the case of 3rd Rail / Sunset universe) is that R&D, parts sourcing, assembly, management, and several other functions cost about the same regardless of the size of the locomotive.  That $2000 Big Boy doesn't correlate to four 0-6-0's on a 1:1 basis.  It is more likely that the smaller engine runs in the $1400-$1500 range.  Buyers then react negatively to the price for the relative size of a switcher.  That is why you see so many 4-8-4 and articulated locomotives.  People buy them.

Here is one that 3rd Rail has a few left in stock of. 3rd Rail SP 0-6-0

The other reality of the marketplace is that we are not likely going to see any new cast steam locomotive tooling unless there is a huge resurgence in O scale.  The only way Lionel, MTH, and Williams can produce these at current costs is by amortizing the initial tooling cost over a lot of runs and many years.  With the decline in interest in O scale steam in general, producing new tooling is very risky for any company producing O scale product and could put a company out of business.  This is the main reason behind the Lionel hybrid concept.  Brass bodies over existing cast drive systems.  Brass doesn't require the tooling investment, but of course has a higher labor cost.  The result is less models can be produced to meet true market demand.  

Built to order only exists because inventory is a terrible business plan in this era.  Case in point is the JLC Silver GG1.  Many were manufactured, but demand turned out to be poor and what was a $800 locomotive went for $500 on discount to clear warehouse space.  Big boxes filling a warehouse cost money.  Those "blowout" models were likely either sold at cost or at a discount. 

I'm not trying to be negative at all about the suggestion for small steam.  I would love some steam switchers balance my roster. 

third rail posted:

No diecast engine is worth $700-800. I think manufacturers go for unique locomotives to cater to the pure collector market. If you sold 5000 $500 engines, you gross $2.5 mil. Do you think you can convince 1250 people to order a one of a kind locomotive to generate the same sales?

Again with this being a wishlist for 3rd Rail product, we can't get 75 orders to move a steam locomotive into design in most cases.  1250 orders is extremely rare anymore.  Consider that the Vision Line Big Boy was a huge success for Lionel and it only received a total of a little over 1000 units from what I understand. 

What an engine is worth is up to the buyer to decide.  Price is a function of what it costs to manufacture it plus a small profit to keep the manufacturer in business.

GG1 4877 posted:

That $2000 Big Boy doesn't correlate to four 0-6-0's on a 1:1 basis.  It is more likely that the smaller engine runs in the $1400-$1500 range.  Buyers then react negatively to the price for the relative size of a switcher.

Probably true. But I might be a buyer for a smaller locomotive in the $1400 price range but definitely not a big steam engine for $2000.

MELGAR

Hi there,

I'd buy 3 each of Norfolk and Western K1 engines and/or Class A engines.

I'd buy 2 each of Norfolk and Western Z1b engines and/or S1/S1a engines.

Several Z1b engines also went to Rio Grande, I do believe. It's just another legitimate name to put on them.

Sunset could easily do a better Class A than anything that is out there now. I'd think there would be an appetite for this iconic engine to be done well.

I guess that I would like a reasonably priced small  engine that many roads owned over an engine that only 1 road had. I have more use for a switcher on my point to point industrial layout than a big road engine.  But I think that if it comes down to oddball locomotives, my vote would go for the Santa fe hinged boiler articulated.  At least it would look decent going around O-72 curves!

What about more brass passenger cars?

I am also a big fan of small steam engines.  I own two of the recent 3rd Rail SP switchers.  They are fantastic engines.  My only complaint is the lack of a working coupler on the front of the locomotive.  Thankfully, I operate two rail equipment, so I only have to retrofit a Kadee coupler, not the larger tinplate coupler.  Considering even Lionel puts front couplers on their steam switchers, I was hoping for more, but beggars can't be choosers.

As far as wishlist locomotives (the point of this thread), anything Lackawanna (DL&W) or a re-run of SP Pacifics with skyline casings.  A diesel switcher, such as an Alco S-2 would be fantastic.

 

FYI...

http://mattforsyth.com/?p=31

Matt Forsyth

Forsyth Rail Services

 

 

Daniel Raible posted:

An Erie K-5-A Pacific would be great for pulling around a set of Golden Gate Depot passenger cars, but any Erie K-1 through K-5 variant would be much appreciated by Erie fans. 

I think there has only been one previous Erie Pacific offering by Max Gray models, but it must be pretty rare because I have yet to actually see one.

DM&IR Yellowstone 227

Ben

Other than a Rutland engine here or there.  3rdrail is pretty much making what I want already.  B&A H10 mikado, NYC F3, GP7/9.   Either are a go or near a go.  I'm sure will be in the poor house over these, and differently in the dog house over my reservations if the boss ever finds out.

I'm glad to see that there are so many steam engines yet to be built.  We just have to continue to be able to afford them.

  Sold my Vision Line Lionel ATSF 2-10-10-2 to a youngster; think about 42 yrs old.

Hope Hot Water isn't reading this, may have got the wheel arrangement wrong

Norm posted:

How about a fleet of U Boats?

 

Norm

Yeah, we need them for my "Rails to Reefs" program and put 'em where they'll actually be useful!!!

christopher N&W posted:

Hi there,

I'd buy 3 each of Norfolk and Western K1 engines and/or Class A engines.

Can't afford but one, but, this one is at the top of my list.

I'd buy 2 each of Norfolk and Western Z1b engines and/or S1/S1a engines.

A couple of S1a's would be nice.

Several Z1b engines also went to Rio Grande, I do believe. It's just another legitimate name to put on them.

Sunset could easily do a better Class A than anything that is out there now. I'd think there would be an appetite for this iconic engine to be done well.

I'd like to see an original version.

 

rex desilets posted:

CSX Troy posted:

I would still LOVE to see Scott make an accurate N&W hopper - either HL / H9 2 bays or H2 / H2a 3 bay in plastic to go along with the Y6's from a few years ago:  

       

If you're really lucky you may find one of these painted and decaled...why, you ask? Because only Champ made decals for them (H2a).

Not true. Here is a link to Great Decals. He makes an excellent set of N&W hopper decals in all scales.

Big Jim posted:

rex desilets posted:

CSX Troy posted:

I would still LOVE to see Scott make an accurate N&W hopper - either HL / H9 2 bays or H2 / H2a 3 bay in plastic to go along with the Y6's from a few years ago:  

       

If you're really lucky you may find one of these painted and decaled...why, you ask? Because only Champ made decals for them (H2a).

Not true. Here is a link to Great Decals. He makes an excellent set of N&W hopper decals in all scales.

Well, the site says they are new, so I may be forgiven for not knowing.

However...the decals are for the 2-bay cars. I have a few sets of those from other mfgrs; what am I gonna do for dimensional & weight data???

I would like to see the SD18

rex desilets posted:

Big Jim posted:

rex desilets posted:

CSX Troy posted:

I would still LOVE to see Scott make an accurate N&W hopper - either HL / H9 2 bays or H2 / H2a 3 bay in plastic to go along with the Y6's from a few years ago:  

       

If you're really lucky you may find one of these painted and decaled...why, you ask? Because only Champ made decals for them (H2a).

Not true. Here is a link to Great Decals. He makes an excellent set of N&W hopper decals in all scales.

Well, the site says they are new, so I may be forgiven for not knowing.

However...the decals are for the 2-bay cars. I have a few sets of those from other mfgrs; what am I gonna do for dimensional & weight data???

Rex,

IIRC, the Yoder cars are at least 10 years old and from what I have seen, the earliest runs were nothing more than factory painted brass bodies that were not lettered at all, nor did they come with trucks.    They run about $150 - $175 each and still need trucks and decals.   Even if you can get decals for any of the Yoder versions that may need them,  to be honest the only examples I have seen that actually look good were done with dry transfers and those are no longer available.    In fact, most N&W guys I know of in O scale  hoard those dry transfers for some odd reason, even though they have plenty of finished cars to last their lifetime.   I believe later runs of the H2a's did come factory lettered with Yoder trucks but those are usually about $325 - $375.   The Yoder cars are an excellent, high quality model, but investing 20 - 30 grand in a model of an N&W coal train is just not feasible for me.

Also, even if you were good with the upfront cost, I have reservations about the weight of having  50 or more of these in a train along with the die-cast Atlas cars mixed in as well.   I have a couple examples of most versions for testing, but If I get to pick, I would prefer to have them all in a high quality plastic version.  

Big Jim posted:

christopher N&W posted:

Hi there,

I'd buy 3 each of Norfolk and Western K1 engines and/or Class A engines.

Can't afford but one, but, this one is at the top of my list.

I'd buy 2 each of Norfolk and Western Z1b engines and/or S1/S1a engines.

A couple of S1a's would be nice.

Several Z1b engines also went to Rio Grande, I do believe. It's just another legitimate name to put on them.

Sunset could easily do a better Class A than anything that is out there now. I'd think there would be an appetite for this iconic engine to be done well.

I'd like to see an original version.

 

 

Me too! I would LOVE  a Class A - probably would take more than 1.  I would also take any example of the K class. 

rtg posted:

I would like to see the SD18

Yeah, I'd like one of these too. I thought I could kitbash one starting with an SD9 body and a GP20 nose, but never could figure out how to put Alco tri-mount trucks under it.

Ken

Maybe start with an atlas RSD 4/5 chassis, an MTH SD9 body and a Lionel  GP 20 nose. If the body fits the chassis, there you're half the way there.

rex desilets posted:

what am I gonna do for dimensional & weight data???

You might send Bill a note and ask about making decals for three bays, or, maybe there are data from other sets that might work,  or, you can drop back ten and piece 'em together from where you can find them. I will say that these decals are very sharp and mingling brands of lesser quality might not look very good. Or, you can go strictly two-bay! 

Penn Division posted:

 

FYI...

http://mattforsyth.com/?p=31

Matt Forsyth

Forsyth Rail Services

 

 

 

 

Wow, very nice!  Hopefully someday either I can find one of those older Max Grey's to fix up, or a newer version is released.  Personally it wouldn't matter much which of the K-series locos were released (beggars can't be choosers), but anything which would help to approximate this Erie Limited scene would be most welcome!

CSX Troy posted:

Big Jim posted:

christopher N&W posted:

Hi there,

I'd buy 3 each of Norfolk and Western K1 engines and/or Class A engines.

Can't afford but one, but, this one is at the top of my list.

I'd buy 2 each of Norfolk and Western Z1b engines and/or S1/S1a engines.

A couple of S1a's would be nice.

Several Z1b engines also went to Rio Grande, I do believe. It's just another legitimate name to put on them.

Sunset could easily do a better Class A than anything that is out there now. I'd think there would be an appetite for this iconic engine to be done well.

I'd like to see an original version.

 

 

Me too! I would LOVE  a Class A - probably would take more than 1.  I would also take any example of the K class. 

We would also be interested in any of these. Would especially like the K1 and S1/S1A. Multiples likely depending on the cost.

PRR I-1 2-10-0

Hi All! Just had to resurrect this thread as there was SO MANY responses for so many engines that have yet to be made!

So let's have at it again, what would you like 3rd Rail to make? Personally, I like everyone's suggestions and value them as much as my own, I'd love us all to see various examples of engines that have never been made before. Perhaps, even a revamp of ones that have but with 2020 tech?  Nothing wrong with updating something done over 20 years ago... But still so many items that have never been done need to be made!

So, let'hear what you want Sunset to make! My vote is the RF&P 4-8-4 ! 

The Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac Railroad bought five 4-8-4 type locomotives from the Baldwin Locomotive Works in 1937, and assigned them road numbers 551 through 555. Not wanting to use the generally accepted "Northern" name the RF&P named each of the new locomotives for a Virginia Civil War general. These five "Generals" had 77" drivers, 27 x 30 cylinders, a 275 psi boiler pressure, a tractive effort of 66,500 lbs and each weighed 446,040 pounds.

In 1938, six more 4-8-4s were acquired from Baldwin (road numbers 601 through 606). Each was named for a Virginia governor. These locomotives had 77" drivers, 27 x 30 cylinders, a 260 psi boiler pressure, a tractive effort of 62,800 lbs and weighed 408,400 pounds. In 1942, another six (road numbers 607 through 612), identical to the 1938 "Governors", were added to the roster and each of them was also given a name of a Virginia governor.

10 more 4-8-4s were delivered by Baldwin in 1944 or 1945 and were assigned road numbers 613 through 622. They were identical to the "Governors" but were each given a name of a Virginia statesman.

After receiving the first five, the RF&P called its 4-8-4s "Generals". As it added the "Governors" the older 4-8-4s were still called "Generals" while the newer 12 were called "Governors". After it received the last 10 which were named for Virginia statesmen it had three different names for the 4-8-4 wheel arrangement.

VintageClassics posted:

Hi All! Just had to resurrect this thread as there was SO MANY responses for so many engines that have yet to be made!

So let's have at it again, what would you like 3rd Rail to make? Personally, I like everyone's suggestions and value them as much as my own, I'd love us all to see various examples of engines that have never been made before. Perhaps, even a revamp of ones that have but with 2020 tech?  Nothing wrong with updating something done over 20 years ago... But still so many items that have never been done need to be made!

So, let'hear what you want Sunset to make! My vote is the RF&P 4-8-4 ! 

The Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac Railroad bought five 4-8-4 type locomotives from the Baldwin Locomotive Works in 1937, and assigned them road numbers 551 through 555. Not wanting to use the generally accepted "Northern" name the RF&P named each of the new locomotives for a Virginia Civil War general. These five "Generals" had 77" drivers, 27 x 30 cylinders, a 275 psi boiler pressure, a tractive effort of 66,500 lbs and each weighed 446,040 pounds.

In 1938, six more 4-8-4s were acquired from Baldwin (road numbers 601 through 606). Each was named for a Virginia governor. These locomotives had 77" drivers, 27 x 30 cylinders, a 260 psi boiler pressure, a tractive effort of 62,800 lbs and weighed 408,400 pounds. In 1942, another six (road numbers 607 through 612), identical to the 1938 "Governors", were added to the roster and each of them was also given a name of a Virginia governor.

10 more 4-8-4s were delivered by Baldwin in 1944 or 1945 and were assigned road numbers 613 through 622. They were identical to the "Governors" but were each given a name of a Virginia statesman.

After receiving the first five, the RF&P called its 4-8-4s "Generals". As it added the "Governors" the older 4-8-4s were still called "Generals" while the newer 12 were called "Governors". After it received the last 10 which were named for Virginia statesmen it had three different names for the 4-8-4 wheel arrangement.

 

I second this!

Trainbros89 posted:

VintageClassics posted:

Hi All! Just had to resurrect this thread as there was SO MANY responses for so many engines that have yet to be made!

So let's have at it again, what would you like 3rd Rail to make? Personally, I like everyone's suggestions and value them as much as my own, I'd love us all to see various examples of engines that have never been made before. Perhaps, even a revamp of ones that have but with 2020 tech?  Nothing wrong with updating something done over 20 years ago... But still so many items that have never been done need to be made!

So, let'hear what you want Sunset to make! My vote is the RF&P 4-8-4 ! 

The Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac Railroad bought five 4-8-4 type locomotives from the Baldwin Locomotive Works in 1937, and assigned them road numbers 551 through 555. Not wanting to use the generally accepted "Northern" name the RF&P named each of the new locomotives for a Virginia Civil War general. These five "Generals" had 77" drivers, 27 x 30 cylinders, a 275 psi boiler pressure, a tractive effort of 66,500 lbs and each weighed 446,040 pounds.

In 1938, six more 4-8-4s were acquired from Baldwin (road numbers 601 through 606). Each was named for a Virginia governor. These locomotives had 77" drivers, 27 x 30 cylinders, a 260 psi boiler pressure, a tractive effort of 62,800 lbs and weighed 408,400 pounds. In 1942, another six (road numbers 607 through 612), identical to the 1938 "Governors", were added to the roster and each of them was also given a name of a Virginia governor.

10 more 4-8-4s were delivered by Baldwin in 1944 or 1945 and were assigned road numbers 613 through 622. They were identical to the "Governors" but were each given a name of a Virginia statesman.

After receiving the first five, the RF&P called its 4-8-4s "Generals". As it added the "Governors" the older 4-8-4s were still called "Generals" while the newer 12 were called "Governors". After it received the last 10 which were named for Virginia statesmen it had three different names for the 4-8-4 wheel arrangement.

 

I second this!

Preach it Brother!  

Let's hear them requests Folks! 

Interesting to reread this....with above posting about die cast cost vs. quantity saleable, no wonder l find little new in the Big Two catalogs.  3rd Rail/Sunset appears to be the last hope for new and different prototypes, except for the Lionel hybrid, and l fear that will be limited locos from only most popular roads.  Still think there ought to be enough York attendees to have seen #90 on the Strasburg (across from the Pa. RR museum, no less), that it would sell.  The N&W 4-8-0 on the Strasburg sold. Has an HO model of #90 been made, that would sell in their gift shop, and be my mantelpiece?

colorado hirailer posted:

Interesting to reread this....with above posting about die cast cost vs. quantity saleable, no wonder l find little new in the Big Two catalogs.  3rd Rail/Sunset appears to be the last hope for new and different prototypes, except for the Lionel hybrid, and l fear that will be limited locos from only most popular roads.  Still think there ought to be enough York attendees to have seen #90 on the Strasburg (across from the Pa. RR museum, no less), that it would sell.  The N&W 4-8-0 on the Strasburg sold. Has an HO model of #90 been made, that would sell in their gift shop, and be my mantelpiece?

I Agree Colorado Hirailer... Sunset is our last, BEST, hope for rare prototypes... 

You make a very good point how  the N&W Strasburg sold, and it's not mainstream popular, yet it knocked it out of the park!

If you notice, the New haven stuff ALWAYS sells too, time and time again... and it's not a popular road. Another road that sells INCREDIBLE is Lehigh Valley, of all. Remember the John Wilkes Booth Streamlined 4-6-2s, and Black Diamond? They ALWAYS sell... It just proves everything you are saying, and how well it sells, if it's made... David

well OK here is my  2 cents. to go with the T&P 2 10 4  . Texas and Pacific 4 8 2 mountainsThere was 2 classes of these with and without FWTR  900-909 , These were used on there passenger trains for there Texas eagle trains. They were Eagle blue and Eagle gray  with silver and yellow stripping , silver lettering outlined in black edging  on the letters and numbers.

Bob

A few ideas on locos that might meet the bar and provide some opportunity for market differentiation

ET44AC 

Dash-9

SD70/75 including a standard cab

SW1500

Bob Harris posted:

well OK here is my  2 cents. to go with the T&P 2 10 4  . Texas and Pacific 4 8 2 mountainsThere was 2 classes of these with and without FWTR  900-909 , These were used on there passenger trains for there Texas eagle trains. They were Eagle blue and Eagle gray  with silver and yellow stripping , silver lettering outlined in black edging  on the letters and numbers.

Bob

Hi Bob! Great idea!! Those locos would be gorgeous, and an excellent compliment to the 3rd Rail T&P 2-10-4 

Modernized 1929 Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific R67 4-8-4; one could be done with a red boiler, as was done for the 1933 World's Fair. And/Or the WWII R67. Both are very handsome machines and  ran to many locations populated by other railroads. For example, Rock Island 4-8-4's bedded down in the Rio Grande's Burnham Roundhouse in Denver. The Rock Island interchanged with the Espee in Tucumcari, NM, etc.

Mike DeBerg posted:

A few ideas on locos that might meet the bar and provide some opportunity for market differentiation

ET44AC 

Dash-9

SD70/75 including a standard cab

SW1500

 

The first and the last above I have tried many time with Scott.  Ends up being in the same boat as the SD/GP40-2, less than half the required interest.  Why anyone wants another GP7/9 from probably the only manufacturer that has not done them when they are available all over the place?  I have no clue.  Same as the Kraus Maffei.  But people reserve them so they get done.

And what is getting the most interest here in steam?  NW class A, another huge locomotive.  So it probably has a decent chance.

VintageClassics posted:

Bob Harris posted:

well OK here is my  2 cents. to go with the T&P 2 10 4  . Texas and Pacific 4 8 2 mountainsThere was 2 classes of these with and without FWTR  900-909 , These were used on there passenger trains for there Texas eagle trains. They were Eagle blue and Eagle gray  with silver and yellow stripping , silver lettering outlined in black edging  on the letters and numbers.

Bob

Hi Bob! Great idea!! Those locos would be gorgeous, and an excellent compliment to the 3rd Rail T&P 2-10-4 

Well these are nice the black version is the most accurate. The blue is way off the color chart for what they used. It is just like the E 6 color which the RR called Eagle Blue and Eagle Gray these were painted this way to run with the New Texas Eagle consist because the streamline cars and the E 6 had not arrived net from the builder in 1948 . When they arrived the steamers were kept painted this way and used for stand by power when needed.

I am with you. I would love to have these In O scale model from but doubt if it will ever happen. It took me 5 years to convince Scott to do the 2 10 4 , and the CGW model helped to get the Texas.

But who knows. All it takes is the reservations, so who else would want these, I will take 2 blue and 1 black.

Bob H

I have well over 150 steam, early diesel era & electric locomotives (exclusive of my pre & post war collection). I have not purchased a new one in several years. However, I am particularly fond of big steam & will buy a Western Marland Potomac if announced.

Locos that I would endure my wife's anger to buy:
L&N "Big Emma" 2-8-4
Reading K-1 2-10-2
USRA heavy 2-8-2

third rail posted:

I guess that I would like a reasonably priced small  engine that many roads owned over an engine that only 1 road had. I have more use for a switcher on my point to point industrial layout than a big road engine.  But I think that if it comes down to oddball locomotives, my vote would go for the Santa fe hinged boiler articulated.  At least it would look decent going around O-72 curves!

If you have a point to point layout, why are you concerned with getting around O72 curves????? 

Some of us actually read these posts! LOL

Simon

I'm always surprised that there isn't more love for the Reading.

The Philadelphia and Reading Railroad (P&R) was one of the first railroads in the United States.  No doubt, it was also one of the nation's most important carriers of coal (anthracite, the best!), as well. 

Couple this with the fact that the Reading Lines were located in one of the country's model railroading hubs (eastern PA) and the fact that The Blue Mountain and Reading Railroad still operates on some of the Reading's original track. 

Yet, there have been very few scale Reading models made, just Pacifics and T-1's

Jim

jd-train posted:

I'm always surprised that there isn't more love for the Reading.

The Philadelphia and Reading Railroad (P&R) was one of the first railroads in the United States.  No doubt, it was also one of the nation's most important carriers of coal (anthracite, the best!), as well. 

Couple this with the fact that the Reading Lines were located in one of the country's model railroading hubs (eastern PA) and the fact that The Blue Mountain and Reading Railroad still operates on some of the Reading's original track. 

Yet, there have been very few scale Reading models made, just Pacifics and T-1's

Jim

Hi Jim,

I believe that the Reading is INDEED popular... One note to mention is that Reading #2100 and #2102 are both close to being fully restored, and restored engines always sell, just like the Strasburg engine...

Reading does very well, time and time again with Broadway Limited always doing the T-1, and Not to mention the Not to Shabby Lionel legacy T-1 is pretty darn nice. But that being said, nothing like a brass...  

But to lend support that the Anthracite railroads sell well, look at the Weaver Streamlined Lehigh Valley 4-6-2s, and their 4-8-4 Lackawanna, those engines time and time again sell for a hefty resale value, and they start huge bidding wars on ebay! As much as a 3rd Rail Articulated! It's true...

I too would love to see some Reading... And with that said, how about a Reading K-1 2-10-2?