51008 Pioneer Zephyr dead motor

The antennas on the Lionel pioneer Zephyr are the skirts that stay on the chassis when the body is removed.

Hi Roy,

Any idea as to what that non-attached wire is for?  It seems to have some sort of rubber end over it but I don't see an attachment point.

Thanks,

John

The electrical connection for the antenna? The rubber is to isolate it from ground.

I cannot see any unattached wire.

Hi Roy,

On the picture on the left, there is a black wire coming up that kind of looks like it might be attached to the motor.  It isn't.  The black wire just has what appears to be a rubber protector on it which is why I thought it might be an antenna.  I do see wires attached to the skirts so they are probably the antenna like you said.

I did check the power going to the front motor and it appears there is power.  However, while inspecting the motor more closely, I see some sort of brass metal part floating around inside the motor.  It looks like I need to have the motor replaced at a service facility since I can't figure out how to remove that motor.

Thanks,

John

Have two friends with these that the front motor failed, unfortunately it was a common failure. IIRC Lionel then ran out of the motors.

It's hard to believe that it isn't just a standard motor and not interchangeable between many engines. But then again, I'm probably just too practical.

@lionelflyer posted:

It's hard to believe that it isn't just a standard motor and not interchangeable between many engines. But then again, I'm probably just too practical.

Can you read any model number on the forward engine? I believe it to be a Mabuchi motor from related parts descriptions. True, Lionel lists the motor/flywheel/sensor assembly as unavailable but the flywheel and sensor are available as individual parts. I think that the problem would be matching the gearing of the original motor and installing the worm gear on it.

That is if the motor needs replacing. If it’s got a stray metal piece in it that might have caused a short, but it’s not easy to see where the piece might have come from. Is it not answering TMCC commands at all?

Frank Timko is really good at installing the old flywheel and worm gear on a new motor,

http://timkorepairdepot.com/

@RoyBoy posted:

Frank Timko is really good at installing the old flywheel and worm gear on a new motor,

http://timkorepairdepot.com/

Good thinking. The only other thing I’d say is that this set is pretty unique and I doubt anything of its kind it will be made again. It must be worth getting an expert to service it.

Thank you for the suggestion.  I've sent an e-mail to Timko Repair.  I don't think it should be too difficult to repair for an expert.

Timko was able to repair (replace) the motor at a very reasonable price.  However a new problem has come up.  The power unit is shorting out.  My ZW-L starts glowing red after a few seconds., even thought the engine is moving.  Rather than fry anything I've disconnected the power.  What appears to be a metal bracket at the center of the engine gets extremely hot.  I cut power before any smoking etc.  I've searched around for maybe a pinched wire but can't see anything. 

Is there a wiring diagram for this engine?  I can find the instruction manual on Lionel's website but no diagram.  I hate to have to send it out again.  The new equipment is very frustrating.  I can take a 70 old postwar engine out, put it on the track, and it runs fine.

I also disconnected a black wire with a round spade from somewhere and forgot where it was.  I thought it was attached to the removable hatch but the screw doesn't want to go in there any where.  Any suggestions, besides making it a shelf queen are appreciated.

Thanks,

LionelFlyer

If you find a wiring diagram, I would like one, too please.

The bad motor may have caused a electronic part to overheat and short, now that short is causing your transformer to overload.

Caps or power transistors are the most likely points of failure.

Most electronics are not repairable, just replaceable if you can find a replacement or upgrade.

@lionelflyer posted:

Timko was able to repair (replace) the motor at a very reasonable price.  However a new problem has come up.  The power unit is shorting out.  My ZW-L starts glowing red after a few seconds., even thought the engine is moving.  Rather than fry anything I've disconnected the power.  What appears to be a metal bracket at the center of the engine gets extremely hot.  I cut power before any smoking etc.  I've searched around for maybe a pinched wire but can't see anything.

Saying something "gets hot" doesn't convey much information, how about at least a picture?  I'm guessing you're likely talking about the DCDS motor driver, but guessing is all I can do with the information provided.

Looks to me like your wire question is answered in your first picture you posted.

I've attached a picture of the part that is getting hot.  It is the mounting bracket for the controls for program/run, smoke, etc.  I can't tell if the bracket is getting hot directly or if it is radiated heat off of another component.  I can only apply power for a few seconds before the ZW-L short indictor light starts glowing.  I'm not sure if the breaker would trip because I don't want to leave the power on that long.  In the few seconds, this bracket gets too hot to touch.

The wire I'm not sure of is shown.  I just don't remember where it went.  I guess getting very frustrated with the unit and leaving it for a couple of weeks didn't help my memory any. 

Thanks for any ideas.

L-F, Like I said, look at your first picture. It looks to me the wire in question is a ground and screws into the chassis holding the fuel tank. That could be your problem. If the washer under the screw is plastic, it probably is the antenna wire. If the bracket still gets hot after you replace the wire, you will need to replace the motor driver board.

The DCDS can be repaired as a rule if it's shorted driver FETs.

Thanks gunrunnerjohn.  Do you know someone who can do that work?  I assume this isn't something that isn't done by Lionel Service.  It is way out of my area.  I can do chemistry, electronics not so much.