AC voltage relays

Insulated Track Signal Driver, Rev. 2

If the track voltage is really going to 6 volts, I recommend wiring it with the external power option.  Obviously, the signal lights are just a typical application, you can wire anything up to a 10 amp load to the relay contacts.

Steve,

Check out this link:

     Scott's Odds & Ends MTR-12T Relay (4/12/22) | NJCJOE

There are a number of related comments.  One of them may cover exactly what you're looking for.

Mike

John's board works great, I'm running 2 auto crossing gates and an automatic gate man using aux power off of one board!

I have been using relays from Azatrax. Have had no issues, and I am using isolated outside rails as well. AC or DC work with these relays. I am using AC.

http://www.azatrax.com/track-power-relay.html

That should work fine, my board added a capacitor to eliminate chatter when you first roll onto the insulated rail section.  My board also will work with AC or DC, it doesn't care.

This may be a stupid question, but I will pose it and thereby confess my ignorance:

If one is using an outside insulated rail block to trigger an accessory like the Lionel Double Signal Bridge using an indepent power source (not track power), which I have done and understand, what benefit does one get from having a relay?

Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

If one is using an outside insulated rail block to trigger an accessory like the Lionel Double Signal Bridge using an independent power source (not track power), which I have done and understand, what benefit does one get from having a relay?

Arnold

Arnold,

Not too much from the relay itself, but some of these relay assemblies have electronics fitted to them that reduces the "chatter", i.e. intermittent operation, that can come as a string of wheels complete the circuit while rolling over the insulated rail, especially if the wheels and/or track aren't clean.

From the relay itself you can switch one than one circuit, e.g., turning on a modern electronic crossing flasher while simultaneously activating a old-fashioned gateman.  The flasher might be powered by 5 VDC and the gateman by 18 VAC.  In this case each could have a separate relay contact to switch it on and off.

Lastly, you might want to have a lamp at your control panel light when the track is occupied, in addition to the flasher and gateman operating.  A third relay contact could be used for this purpose, all activated simultaneously.

Mike

From my perspective, it is just easier for me to make the signals do what I want them to do ie, one relay output can make the signal green and the other can make the signal turn red. Just one example. In addition, I have areas on my layout where I have a Banjo signal. This signal gets annoying to me after a while so with a relay, I can use a switch to cut power to the relay which in turn turns the signal off. Now, I could just as easily switch off power to actual signal itself, but by using a relay, I have a shorter wire run from the on/off switch to the relay than I would from the on/off switch all the way to the signal. You can definitely do most things without a relay. It's more for convenience in my opinion.

In my case I need a SPDT switch/contact/relay. I need the NO and NC feature because I am operating a #153 block signal.

Steve

I use two 12vac transformers for train control on my two, 2 trains on one track systems.  These transformers were easy to find 30 or so years ago, even with contacts to take a 6 to 10 amp load like mine.  I operate the relays on a 14 volt transformer used mostly only for the 31 Marx 1590 switches, intermittently when switched and there is no constant load as the switches and controllers do not have indicator lights..

The isolated section of track go to the common contact on the relay coil and the other contact is the 14vac power.  When the train wheels hit the isolated section, a common from the other common rail, is then turned on to the common relay contact and the relay is activated to control the track.

Charlie

I have used this diagram and it works well….

Thanks Mike and LT1Poncho.

Using the insulated outside rail block alone (no relay), I get flawless operation of my Lionel Postwar Crossing Gates, but intermittent operation of my modern Lionel Double Signal Bridge. Specifically, the red light comes on like it should, but the green light flickers a little instead of shutting off completely when the red light comes on.

I believe the intermittent operation problem with the signal bridge would be solved if I installed the proper relay.

Thanks again for your helpful advice. Arnold

Arnold, you are exactly correct. I had the same issue with the double signal bridge. That was the first relay I installed. Corrected the issue and I have used them ever since for similar signals and accessories.

LT1Poncho, I have never seen anything about relays in the numerous books I have about building layouts and the myriad number of model train magazines I have since 1989. The books I have include Greenberg's Model Railroading with Lionel Trains Volume II: An Advanced Layout by John Kouba, which I found extremely helpful.

If you remember, what specific relay did you buy, and where did you buy it, for your Lionel Double Signal Bridge.

Others can chime in and recommend a particular relay for this accessory, and where it can be purchased.

Arnold

Arnold, see if you can find the 3 wiring books by Peter riddle. It might be a greenburg publication.  He does vol. 1- 2 and 3. All excellent. He shows you how to wire up numerous scenarios using relays, diodes, resistors etc..

There was an article in the March 2008 CTT, on how to wire a Lionel Signal Bridge using relays.  I built several of these, unfortunately the parts were from Radio Shack and don't think they are in business anymore.  There were three components:

The Relay was RS 275-248, which had a 12-volt DC coil, and 10-amp contacts. Since it was DC, a rectifier was needed to work with the AC track power.   

The bridge rectifier was RS 276-1152, which was rated at 100 volts SC and 1.5 amps.

There was also a capacitor, RS 272-1032, which had a rating consistent with the relay coil. It stores energy that allow for smoother operation.

If anyone has suggestions for replacements for these components, that would be appreciated. 

The first picture shows the relay and capacitor

That round disk is the rectifier.

I have my wiring diagram somewhere but could not find it quickly. I have used it with crossing gates and track signals.

The first one took me a few hours to solder the parts together, so if you only need a few of them, then GunrunnerJohn's boards would be the way to go.

30110 Insulated Track Signal Driver, Rev. 2 - HENNING'S TRAINS (shoplightspeed.com)

something like this might work for these applications. it's supposed to accept low current 5~48volts AC or DC

https://a.co/d/cFSspZM

@Former Member posted:

I built several of these, unfortunately the parts were from Radio Shack and don't think they are in business anymore.  There were three components:

The Relay was RS 275-248, which had a 12-volt DC coil, and 10-amp contacts. Since it was DC, a rectifier was needed to work with the AC track power.   

The bridge rectifier was RS 276-1152, which was rated at 100 volts SC and 1.5 amps.

There was also a capacitor, RS 272-1032, which had a rating consistent with the relay coil. It stores energy that allow for smoother operation.

If anyone has suggestions for replacements for these components, that would be appreciated.

@Former Member,

Radio Shack is still in business although almost no one on this forum, or anywhere else for that matter, seems to realize this.  It's just that almost all of the stores have closed.

Go to www.radioshack.com.

Now it's quite true that there are likely to be suitable replacements from other sources, and probably at slightly lower cost, but if you'd rather not spend the time to locate them just "Go back to the Shack".

Mike

My go to place for small electrical parts it eBay.

"Operating O and O27 Trains" by Greenberg's has a section on relays for model railroad.  It is an up date of the Lionel post war book on model trains.

The Greenberg's books by Peter Riddle, on wiring model railroads are good and I have vol. 1, (easily found reasonable) but vol 2 and 3 are about $30.

Charlie

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

@Former Member,

Radio Shack is still in business although almost no one on this forum, or anywhere else for that matter, seems to realize this.  It's just that almost all of the stores have closed.

Go to www.radioshack.com.

Now it's quite true that there are likely to be suitable replacements from other sources, and probably at slightly lower cost, but if you'd rather not spend the time to locate them just "Go back to the Shack".

Mike

Hi Mike!  Thanks for the reminder about Radio Shack, I knew that they had a website and did see some relays, etc.  Best.  Dave