Amtrak derailment North Carolina

As long as there is a human factor involved, there is no possible way to prevent all accidents, injuries, or deaths whether its car, truck, plane, train, work related... Bad things are gonna happen, just hope it doesn't happen to you.

The person that took the raw video of the crash on the above site link was suffering from VVS

The NC cop on the scene wasn't very well trained or bright. Their job is public safety, not traffic control. He had a radio to call in to alert the RR.

Environmental impact report holding up improving safety at an existing crossing.  If true, I am embarrassed for my state.  I must admit that CA environmentalists often go to extremes to block any project.  

 

I went to high school in Oxnard and I am very fond of the city.  

 

I strongly suspect that more of the hold up is over money and spending priorities.  It is difficult to find money for things that might happen.  It is still an embarrassing situation.

 

Joe

 

 

Calling it a derailment seems incorrect. Are locos lighter weight than they used to be?

I would have thought it would have whacked the truck and stayed on the track.

Yes, the passenger units are lighter than they used to be, but that truck trailer was extremely heavy with a very long load. Watch closely at the in-car-video, and you will see the Amtrak diesel unit raise up many feet upon striking that load. 

The trailer was extremely low, which can cause the engine to ride up on as the video shows. As Hot Water stated, the passenger engines are lighter than freight engines.

 

Being on a long sweeping curve, the engineer did not have much reaction time. Hopefully everyone will be OK.

 

Gene

Wow I am amazed the news actually asked the right question...about calling the RR.

Latest story I read this morning quoted a law enforcement officer connected with the scene that the truck driver was in fact being given an official escort and help, and the troopers were supposed to contact the railroad but did not.

 

He was not able to answer why the escorting troopers failed to contact the railroad

 

 

WELL...there are signs after all.

 

Like Gene said, 10"x8" and blue, I had to literally stop to see it let alone read it.  I'd have to be stopped right next to the sign, or get out of my car, to read what's on there.

 

Things is, the average Joe ain't gonna know it's there unless he's bored while waiting for a train to cross and starts looking out his car window.  At normal road speed the sign will never register.

 

Now if you're a truck driver (or LEO), ya ought to know to look for these things.

 

But again, to the average Joe, there's too many signs at every intersection to pay attention to anything but what color the light is.  Fact is, they all blend in.

 

"Sign, sign, everywhere a sign"

I'm surprised someone in the major news media hasn't picked up on this! It is something that the news media can educate the public about.

Our local news did report tonight that the accident could have been prevented had someone called the number on the crossing gates. Now, it is time for all the major news networks to do an in-depth report about crossing gates having the placards with the contact number and crossing number! I am sure that a very very small percentage of America knows that the placards are there.

NBC Nightly News had it as a lead story Monday....but no 'educational' component to the story....just a brief overview.....

Let me make myself more clear. I was speaking in regard the the previous post by Bob and the signs.

How about someone like the troopers calling the number on the signal stand to advise CSX bad Amtrak they had a problem crossing the tracks. Would seem to me that should have been the first thing done given these are very active tracks.

What's lost in all of this is, this whole move of a very heavy and oversized load was scheduled well in advance, and SHOULD have required advance notification to every single railroad that would have been involved in the crossing of their trackage. The railroad would then have had an employees in radio/cell phone contact with the dispatchers office when the track was crossed and then cleared. None of that was done 24 hours in advance.

That's what raised my eyebrow when I saw the news reports. Oversize load signs, multi-axle trailer visible. A couple of reports say the trailer was rated for around 250,000 lbs, and the manufacturer of the load builds modular electrical systems. 

No...I got it.......

But in our PC driven world this incident was NO ONES FAULT. If the mass media had produced a story that showed how there is info available TO ALL to prevent this from happening.....they would get slammed as criticizing the NCHP. It can't be that they were 'educating' the public.....We have to tip toe around all stories today for fear we might get someone....anyone...upset because we imply blame or fault.

It even happens here in this thread and the Oxnard thread.

This just boils down to using good common sense. Something that is missing more and more each day.

 

Hot Water is dead on with the assessment that RR contact numbers should be in every permitted load. The hard part is getting the permitted load to follow thru with the instructions. 

 

AMCDave is dead on as well. Tired of tiptoeing around everything we do, in case we hurt someone feelings anymore. Hard to tell a good joke anymore without the chance of offending someone. 

 

Better quit, before I go beyond my medications capabilities.

 

Gene

A side note...I bet CSX wishes they hadn't abandoned the Norlina to Petersburg section of the SAL at times like this.  Heck they have a traffic jam on the A-Line on a good day.  To remove the SAL and most of the second main on the SAL has turned out to be not the best combination.

 

If you look on Google Maps for Halifax NC...looks like in the past CSX graded a straighter alignment through there....but backed down.  

Mike

 

It would have taken too long to reroute trains over to the S Line. The A line was opened back up around 0230 from what I heard this morning. With trains all ready past Pembroke and Collier Yard. No way to get there. 

 

And after almost 30 years, CSX has learned to work around these disruptions of traffic. 

 

I supervised of the team that removed those tracks back in the late 80's.

 

What you see on the maps, was an old double main. Used to be double mains from Rocky Mount to Collier Yard. I help remove those as well.

 

Back in the late 70's there was a proposed plan to straight out the curves in the Halifax area. The land was purchased and plotted out. It never went thru because of the ROI was not sufficient.

 

Gene

 

 

Last night the Cedar Rapids, IA news station reported on the derailment.  They informed us that the driver of the truck got out in time and was not hurt.  They didn't bother to say anything about the engineer riding in the locomotive flipped on it's side.  

 

Looking at the crash seen below I can see it was a tough left turn for the over-length load.  What I don't get is there was plenty of room to pull forward once the crossing bells began and the locomotive horn blasted.  Come on people.....think!  He could have killed dozens.  

 

Did you read this whole thread? Maybe you missed the part that the trailer got hung-up on the railroad crossing, and the truck couldn't go forward nor backward, i.e. it was STUCK!

I think that "stuck on the tracks" was figurative, not physical.

 

See this article with eye witness reports:

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.c...article13188956.html

Hot Water

 

According to my sources, He was having trouble making a left hand turn to go north on Highway 301. He had to wait on some traffic and backed up to get another chance on the turn when the gates activated. Panic probably set in and he jumped. He was over 165' long.

 

 

Gene

 

Stiems

 

The whole thing in a nut shell.

 

Good article.

 

gene

 

Mike,

 

Traffic growth is a little less now than it was back when we took the tracks up. They actually have more flexibility with traffic than they did before hand. If they would have installed crossover every 8 -10 miles that would have helped some, but at a lot higher costs. 

 

The curve speed is the same now as it was. They can not raise the speed, unless they go to a higher class of track for inspections and maintenance. Class 4 is what it is at now. 

That is why the first realignment never took place, not enough benefit to justify it.

 

I hated taking up the tracks, we all thought they had screws loose for doing so. They saw the big picture, with savings to continue to be profitable. Years later, I am glad someone had the forethought to do it. 

To add to this......

 

Our local news (Raleigh NC) reported the following last night:

 

- As stated above, this was a planned move with state police escort. Entire route was supposed to be planned out and proper notifications made in advance

 

- This was an oversize heavy load (modular building with electrical switching equipment), a chore to maneuver under the best of circumstances

 

- He had been trying to make the turn for some time, and had backed up onto the tracks after a failed attempt.  He was not "stuck".  Traffic and the sharpness of the turn combined with the size of his load put him there

 

- The police were directing traffic, and were quoted as saying they did not know a train was coming.  There was a curve leading into the crossing, so advanced notice was short.  The rated speed was 70 mph, but no one knows yet what the train was doing.

 

The piece of this that blows my mind was that this situation (oversized load on tractor trailer having difficulty making the turn) was reported to have happened several times before, even with police escort.  This issue was KNOWN!..... and still nobody knew to do anything in advance.   Agree that a simple call to AMTRAK could have prevented this senseless accident.  Bet there's going to be a lot of fingerpointing though, between the police and the trucking company, as to who should have done the notifying.

 

Tom

A simple call to Amtrak would have taken too long if done anything at all. They do not control the trains there. all they do is run on the tracks. You have to notify the tracks owners, in this case CSX.

 

Had they called the  1-800-232-0144 number and provided the right info. The train could have been notified in less than two minutes and could have been stopped in about 3 minutes or come up to the crossing prepared to stop.  911 would have taken longer as to transferring the info again, and possible not getting the right info to start with. 

 

The proper info are on all crossings, as to the number to call and info needed to identify the right crossing. 

What Hot said,

"What's lost in all of this is, this whole move of a very heavy and oversized load was scheduled well in advance, and SHOULD have required advance notification to every single railroad that would have been involved in the crossing of their trackage. The railroad would then have had an employees in radio/cell phone contact with the dispatchers office when the track was crossed and then cleared. None of that was done 24 hours in advance."

 

Is the answer for this particular mess.

 

Ed

How did ACL used to run 100MPH trains on this line....did the Gov restrict train speeds after the 70's?

Yes.

Mike,

 

Hot Water again is correct about the Gov.stepping in.

 

I have some old timetables that still show the 100MPH speeds. Back then, they had a lot more manpower for MofW and that makes a lot of difference. 

 

I have an old Dispatcher sheet that showed all the train stops and times from Richmond to Rocky Mount. The run time back then with all the stops (about 12) were faster than Amtrak running from Rocky Mount to Petersburg today. 

Plus, federal law prohibits any speed over 79 MPH, without automatic train control, cab signals, and/or automatic train stop. 

Decent article about this in today's paper:

 

http://www.newsobserver.com/ne...article13183625.html

More PC tip toeing........

'Accident MAY have been prevented if someone had called CSX'

Then go on to say truck was on the tracks for about 20 minutes BEFORE the accident???

WHY can't a NEWS story do a real world investigation report on the FAILURES of all involved???

I guess it could hurt someones feelings.........

 

This fiasco, sort of, reminds me of the grade crossing accident in Texas involving wounded war vets. Is this a "good old boy's" attitude of git er done ?? As for running a 100 MPH, it was done regularly with steam in the good old days.

Bottom line, the shipper and freight company new that the product was over sized and they failed to take the proper precautions. Know where your going and where you have might have a problem and plan for it. Backing up with a load like that and trying to make what looks like an impossible turn should have set off alarms by the troopers, the road crew managing the move and the driver. The knew they had trouble, they failed to act and caused the accident.

 

Amtrak / CSX if notified in advance of a move like this might have made arrangements to provide a better window for the move.

 

 

 

Blaming Amtrak for their stupidity is foolish. 

Problem is America is doesn't respond without a PC answer cause we hurt peoples feelings. Its like giving everyone a trophy for kids playing sports these days. Everyone gets trophy - are you kidding. I remember the days when you came in 1st, 2nd, 3rd get rewarded - everyone else .....oh well.

 

Bottom line, blame the shipper, the troopers, the safety and spotters - 20 minutes trying to go over a crossing - Poor judgement - Let's blame CSX and Amtrak for their mistake