Atlas $94.95 for a tank car

Saw that one. That's pretty steep when you consider MTH cars are selling for about $55 and have detail that's relatively close. I won't be getting any and I've paid quite a bit for a few pieces of brass rolling stock.

Pricing for O gauge rolling stock and locomotives continue to rise. What is very interesting is that RMT is selling their traditional size boxcars for $19.95. I am sure that RMT is making a profit on their sales, it speaks volumes on the manufactures pricing structure.

Wow!  That is a beauty.  And big!!  No doubt this will start another round of why-can't-they-make-good-rolling-stock-for-[fill in the price, $5, $10, $20 here] anymore?  Personally, I think it is reasonably priced.  Lots of detail, really good quality trucks, frame, separately applied parts, and there is a lot of model there, given its size.

 

I like to run scale stuff but this would just be too big for me: I prefer scale models of smaller rolling stock such as 8K and 11K tank cars, etc.

For that price I expect it to also contain the appropriate lading.

hello guys and gals..........

 

Seems a lot of money for a plastic freight car .

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

It would probably be about $120-$150 if it were metal.

 

Rusty

Quite frankly, I've ALWAYS been very skeptical of the information that is disclosed by importers regarding overseas manufacturing costs.  True... I'm sure labor prices are on the rise.  However, we probably don't want to REALLY know the true profit margins on these jewels... and I'm talking about the profit margins realized by the importer -- not the dealers here in the US.

 

The Atlas-O pricing of $95 for the tank car is ridiculous... and no doubt is protecting a very hefty profit margin that fellows like Lee don't mind subsidizing.   

 

As an alternative for folks looking to get a bit more bang for the dollar, I'd suggest taking a look at Lionel's Ethanol series of tankers featured in the 2013 Signature Catalog.  They spec out at 30K in volume, approximately 15" (60 scale-feet) in length, and Charlie Ro has the 3-packs listed for $172, down from the $240 MSRP.  Cranking out the math, that's $57/each (street price) or $80/each (MSRP).

 

Although Atlas-O's master series is well-known for fabulous detail, Lionel has been producing some fabulously detailed scale cars in recent years that fit the bill quite nicely.  So it's not as if we don't have alternatives out there.  Competition... gotta love it when you're a consumer of goods. 

 

David

These cars are a little pricey, but Atlas and Weaver seens to be the only one's making some new prototype cars, these tanks and the Trainmen 62' bulkhead flats.  MTH and Lionel seem to only change the names on there cars.

 

There are plenty more prototype cars that these guys could make but not want to spend the money for the moldes.

I'm a traditional 027 operator, so true scale items do not interest me. On the other hand, this is not the first time in recent months there has been a thread with critical comments concerning the pricing of Atlas O rolling stock. So I think a reality check is in order.

 

The list price of a separate sale starter set Lionel car with plastic trucks and molded body detail is $43.00. The box cars have a snap together frame with no added detail, other than 2 door guides and a brake wheel. Upgrade to sprung metal trucks, the same type of car goes up to $55.00. The made in the USA cars goes up to $65.00. These are basic easily assembled cars with minimal additional details made from tooling and dies that have long been paid for, so there is no recent development costs to recooperate, save for the made in the USA cars, which are from new tooling and dies.

 

Typical Lionel postwar reissues go for $55-$65.00 with no added costs for research on accuracy of paint schemes. They're dupicating the paint schemes and lettering done decades ago.

 

Most full scale Lionel cars have list prices starting at $70.00. The auto carriers are $110.00 each, not including automobiles inside the car. A set of three 30,000 tank cars is $240.00. The ACY aluminum hoppers list for $85.00 each (2012 catalog price) and the scale flats with dual trailers list for $98.00 (2012 catalog list price).

 

To continue in fairness, the LIST price of the RMT single cars, such as the reefer, box car and tank car is $80.00 for a single traditionally sized train car. Yes, there is some added detail, and the paint schemes are certainly superior qualilty. But $80.00 is one heck of a lot of money for a train car that only a few years ago was much less when being made under the Lionel banner. $19.95 is the RMT factory direct sale price, and I seriously doubt they'd be selling out production runs at that $80.00 list price. And because RMT is now basically factory direct (as they undercut their former dealer network), I'm guessing they will need to continue some sort of direct sale pricing, thus making their list price sort of meaningless, save for giving the consumer the idea they are getting a real deal.

 

Even the Atlas Industrial Rail cars have a list price of $40.00, again for a car that has mostly molded in details, save for the tank car.

 

For Premiere Line MTH cars, yes, some are $50-$55.00 But some are more: A 50 foot high cube box car lists for $65.00 as do the 3 bay cernter flow hoppers. A flat car with trailer is $70.00 as are the husky stack cars. The majority of the Railking cars are $50-55.00 list, and these are cars with minimasl additional detail from tooling and dies that have been around for some time.

 

The Weaver cars mostly have list prices in the $60-$70.00 price range, although it is an American made car, so a value for that reason alone, since they tend to stand with the others on a detail and accuracy level.

 

Bear in mind too, that Lionel has made some mistakes with their high end cars. The color of the recent PRR box car was talked about at length on this forum. And there has long been grumbling about MTH's inaccuracy with paint schemes, nevermind their obvious fantasy paint schemes, which MTH defends by saying that this is what consumers actually buy. I would tend to trust Atlas more so for accuracy in detail, proportion and paint schemes.

 

I think this is basically an expensive hobby, no matter what your preference of detail and scale proportion. In my mind, $43.00 is a lot of money for a foreign-made starter set car. But with discount pricing, I won't be paying list for anything I might want. And so it is with consumers who prefer high end scale proportioned trains.

 

It's hard to have it both ways: Scale consumers want newly developed and tooled, accurately proportioned products with true-to-life paint schemes with list prices on par with traditionally sized train cars - which sell in far greater numbers meaning the companies can more easily recover their production costs. The newer scale cars have much smaller production runs, and have the added burden on the unrecoverded development costs. Don't take my words for this: All the various train company owners and CEO's have all said the same thing.

 

Granted, every company has their own pricing structure and, thus discounting differs from company to company as it does with retailers. While $100 for a single tank car is a lot of money for many, it is a newly developed and tooled car and I would trust Atlas will do their best to make it an accurate model.

 

In my mind, given every one else's list prices, the price for this Atlas car does not seem to out of line. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't expect a blow out either, as Atlas probably will closely monitor production numbers to minimize that from happening - which may also contribute to the pricing.

 

 

 

 

Either buy it or not, this same thing came up when AtlasO released the trinity hopper. The car is not for everybody and I will pick up a few just not the amount I would like.

This new price is a combination of production volumes, and production speed with  accuracy.

 

How many would anyone actually purchase and be able to use on their O Scale railroad even if the cars were only $20 each? 

 

There are only a small number of huge model railroad operators that will be able to make trains with 20 to 40 of these long tank cars.

 

The largest number on these tank cars in a unit train that would on my tracks is only 12. I have to leave some open space on the tracks.

 

Andrew

Originally posted by joep:

These cars are a little pricey, but Atlas and Weaver seens to be the only one's making some new prototype cars, these tanks and the Trainmen 62' bulkhead flats.  MTH and Lionel seem to only change the names on there cars.

Uh Joep, I think you are making poor assumptions in judgement toward Lionel. Lionel for several years now has invested in a new freight car each year. This last catalog are scale 30K modern tank cars, last year was the Scale Autoracks, Year before that was the round roof boxcar, etc.

Joe, it isn't that the train companies don't want to spend the money. It's much more truthfully a case of whether the consumers are willing to pay the necessary higher prices for accurately newly developed products with higher manufacturing costs... as evidenced by this very topic. The former CEO of Atlas O stated that it took several sell-out production runs on a newly tooled train car to simply break even with the investment costs.

 

In the thread about Crew Talk, several agreed that companies shouldn't make business decisions based upon emotion. And I do not believe they are.

 

And in the Lionmaster thread from several weeks ago, folks from Lionel explained quite clearly that Lionel had to drop the Lionmaster line as they could not make the products at the detail level consumers wanted at a price level consumers would be wiling to pay. I think this reality accounts for far more product decisions than consumers are willing to believe.

I can see the rise in price if we are talking about China here.  I just saw a special on tv about their military being on the rise and their new military firepower.  They were saying how it will be in direct competition with U.S. military within a few years.  New aircraft carriers and jet fighters.  Looks very impressive.  Costs a lot of money to build a military.

 

Rick

O scale stuff is going up....but so are all hobbies.  When I switched from HO to O 3 rail I 'missed' the prices of the HO freight cars and locomotives. But I got a e-mail today from a major internet retailer and the new Kaito P42 Amtrak locos are $315 with their discount!!! My last two O locos from train shows were well under $200 so I don't miss those HO prices any longer.

 

On RMT....it is a bit of a different mode sales wise. Direct sales prices can be a little lower as the item doesn't pass through 2-3 hands before the customer. BUT....I do agree that RMT's prices are more realsitic for items made from tooling more than 20 years old. And I have a real good idea what the stuff we have manufactured in Asia costs (plastic model kits) so it can be done. New tooling does add greatly to the final price and going from manufacture, importer/owner, distributor and sometimes wholesaler before hobby shop and customer can really bump up the price.

 

It boils down to what you can afford. I build a lot of my trains, cars and buildings, and hunt many items down at shows for greatly reduced prices. Make the hobby what you want it to be. There are those that will order a fleet of these tank cas and not blink. I might if I had the funds.

Curve,

don't try to confuse us with the facts.

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

 

“The Atlas-O pricing of $95 for the tank car is ridiculous... and no doubt is protecting a very hefty profit margin that fellows like Lee don't mind subsidizing”

 

Just to be specific here, what profit margin is too low, not really self-sustaining, what is about right for these kinds of low volume products and what is a high profit margin, meaning how much profit margin is “ridiculous”?

 

Just curious as this type of comment is rarely (never) quantified by us here on the forum.

 

It will be interesting to see the answeers from people who work in manufacturing that have some idea of what it costs to bring a product to market and the answers from people that just really have no clue how much it costs to bring products to market.

 

Charlie

 

Even if the new Atlas-O tankers came with FreightSounds like Lionel's VisionLine version of their Ethanol tankers (which are literally nowhere to be found these days), the Atlas-O tankers MSRP is still more than Lionel's version (which MSRP'd at $270 for a 3-pk in 2010).

 

But the Atlas-O tankers DON'T have sound.  So why would you pay MORE for cars WITHOUT sound, than you would have paid for Lionel cars WITH sound just a couple of years ago?   

 

I'm not a Lionel brand loyalist by any stretch of the imagination, and I certainly don't bleed blue & orange... but I just think the Lionel offering featured in their 2013 catalog will complement the earlier 2010 Vision Line (and non-VisionLine) 30K tankers quite nicely at just a modest price increase over their 2010 tankers at the non-VisionLine price point... compared to the new Atlas-O price-point.

 

I just wish one of the Lionel 3-packs listed in the 2013 catalog would have been another VisionLine offering with FreightSounds.  That would have been a real bonus!!! 

 

David

 

hello guys and gals...........

 

the most expensive car I ever paid for is the railking aquarium car which has a motor in it and costs me 69 dollars new in the box.  95 dollars for a non-motorized plastic car,forget it.

 

then woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

My most expensive factory-fresh car was a $64.95 Lionel Susquehanna bay window caboose.  I believe $65 is my threshold (Original Standard Gauge cars aside).  As Tiffany says, $95 for a plastic car - I can't envision paying that.  Maybe 10 or 15 years hence.

Not worth $50 let  alone $95/ Anyone who buys one should check their MEDS!

 

Gunny

the RMT $19.95 sale was to clean out the warehouse of existing stock. but to sell a plastic tank freight car for $100 is never going to be on my layout either.

At that price, how long will will they have to be sitting on store shelves collecting dust before the price comes down to a more reasonable level?

I don't think you can compare  Atlas and RMT it's kind of apples to oranges. I was talking to Jim Weaver once about Atlas pricing and he said to me, everytime you touch the car it raises the price. If you think about how many add on pieces there are on an Atlas Master series car the price makes sense. I will admit 90.00 is getting on the high side for most people though.

Come on, now.  No one expects to buy $20 cars.  I do not think it is reasonably priced.  There may "nice trucks" and "applied parts," but it is not $94.95 worth of tank car.  Let's fill it in with a fair price. 

Actually note that Bill T posted $19.95 earlier, but those cars and these aren't compareable as to quality.  I have no doubt the Atlas will sell at the typical discount range you would expect - $80- $85.

 

I think this is what modern, detailed, new-tooling costs, and I applaud Atlas for taking the business risk rather than just recycling old tooling with new paint.  I won't buy this particular car as it is too big, but I am reconciled to paying $100 for detailed scale cars in only a year or two or three: no doubt it will come.  At 2.5% inflation from this price, its only about two years away.

 

The market will speak and the dust will settle.

I am about filled up with locos and cars.

If folks are reaching the same point I have reached, some companies wills be hurting.

For $95 I can buy 1/4 of a reserved seat in Yankee Staium.

I don't go there, either.

Scrappy

A few years ago (5 or so) Atlas had a blow out on a number of their cars and I was fortunate to get several for I think $25 a piece.  I think that is quite the bargain.

 

Regarding the whole is it worth it?  I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I am also pretty confident Atlas will sell out of these, like they do pretty much everything.  

 

I don't see alot of Atlas blow outs.  

 

John

In comparison, the 17.600 gallon tank cars list for $75 in 3-rail.  You need to recognize that the market for the 25,000 gallon cars will be smaller and that costs per car have gone up so you should expect that the price will be higher. 

 

Do you remember last year Atlas' announcement for the PRR TM-1 38,040 gallon "Rail Whale" tank car?  I think it listed for $115-120 as I can't find the announcement.  The PRR only built one.  So here you have an expectation of only a few sales.  Much fewer than Atlas expected so they cancelled the car a few months later.

 

Jan

three 40' boxcars at $65/car = $195 for 120' of train.

two 62' tank cars at $95/ car = $190 for 124' of train.

sounds fairly equal to me.

 

this is clearly a scale car and should not be compared to anything else.  i also get a smile when i hear people put down a 'plastic' car.  Robert Hundman published Mainline Modeler for decades and authored many articles on scratch building and modifying stock production.  his material of choice?  ...styrene plastic.  and you'd be hard pressed to find more beautifully detailed models in any medium.

It's a top of the line O scale car. Not an 027 tanker for sure.    No comparison except to brass counterparts. 

This weekend I had to look for a receipt for an MTH heavy weight baggage car with a deteriorating metal truck problem. While searching for the receipt I took the time to  organize all of  my receipts by vender. I had quite a stack of receipts for Atlas items, mostly from AM Hobbies. This does not count purchases of Atlas cars at York, local train shows, and hobby shops. I have spent a lot of $$ on Atlas O over the past several years.

 

Now if these new tank cars were Steam Era Classics, such as a two or three dome tank car in O scale I have to admit Atlas would have hooked me. As it is these tank cars are too modern for me. And yes, the price is approaching double the amount we were paying for the Atlas O 8,000 gallon tank cars a few years ago.

I give Atlas credit for bringing a new product to the market. However the days buying multiple car numbers and or road names are over for a lot of folks including me.

Thanks,

Richard

Its quality over quantity for Atlas, cars like the Trinity and now this tank car represent detail and build quality very close to imported brass cars at 1/5 the price. In the 2 rail O scale market most of us are not collecting so we are not looking to buy one of everything that is being produced. These cars are only a small part of Atlas O line, the Tman line gives value for the money and still is built to accurate 1/4 scale unlike the 3 rail mfgs who still adhear to the mantra if its not O-27 it must be O scale.JMHO

 That is a very good way to look at it.  A high quality 15" passenger car costs in this range, so, in that perspective, this also seems like a good reasonable price.

wow.. a tank car for a passenger car price... boy not me.

The most I have ever paid for a scale box car new is 50 dollars, and it was a specialty run at that.

'To each is own', but I rather save and buy the next Atlas CZ car. Now that is a bang for the buck.

 

There is a point when it's time to "put the bat down" and stop buying.  I have done that and got into building wooden craftsman kits from Bar Mills and others.  Much more satisfaction than just buying more and more rolling stock>.......

Don't get me wrong Atlas makes a great detailed 3 rail freight car. I could afford a new one but with tons of great used stuff out there. I always tend to buy used "previously enjoyed" as I like to say for 25-50% of the original price and most are like new & some have never been out of the box. There are even better deals on Weaver freight cars in my opinion. I always wondered what the dealer mark up on a new Atlas or Weaver $50 dollar freight car is?

with tinplate, sometimes you have to think outside the box.

 

Do you remember last year Atlas' announcement for the PRR TM-1 38,040 gallon "Rail Whale" tank car?  I think it listed for $115-120 as I can't find the announcement.  The PRR only built one.  So here you have an expectation of only a few sales.  Much fewer than Atlas expected so they cancelled the car a few months later.

 

Jan

Uh Correction! the Atlas O announcement was not a full scale redition of the PRR TM-1, Just a repainted Whale Bellied tank car that tooling already existed. the PRR prototype had 6 wheeled trucks for the TWO prototypes that they had. Atlas O was Not Offering a Six wheeled truck Whale bellied tank car and I believe that was the real turn off.