Atlas Factory Shut Down

The link you give above is from Atlas themselves, not a social media site, so unfortunately this appears to be a fact.

Landsteiner posted:

The link you give above is from Atlas themselves, ….

I guess I wasn't clear. Yes, I posted the link from Atlas. But, I've read that there are posts on social media from other sources indicating the specific factory that closed.

Jim

I am pretty sure that this is an every year occurrence for Atlas-----summer shut down/vacation.

Norm

Norm posted:

I am pretty sure that this is an every year occurrence for Atlas-----summer shut down/vacation.

Norm

No. That's the Chinese New Year which is usually in January.  This is a permanent factory closure.

I can just see it now, a couple of hundred employees each running out the back door with a couple of pieces of production tooling. 

Remember the Sanda Kahn fiasco?

Well Looking on the bright side.... they DID get the Long Awaited [for some] C40-8's!

Absolutely great news and a new opportunity for the factory to return to Hillside NJ.

Trying to find out if this concerns O or HO. Either way …. stinks.

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Absolutely great news and a new opportunity for the factory to return to Hillside NJ.

"Atlas is currently working with our network of suppliers to transfer the projects to others for completion."

In other words, not moving back to Hillside.

What I wonder is:  Was this factory dedicated solely to Atlas or are other companies also affected?

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

What I wonder is:  Was this factory dedicated solely to Atlas or are other companies also affected?

Rusty

Talking heads on the internet are mentioning other companies being affected …. HO companies like Athearn and Intermountain. Who friggn' knows, though.

Eagerly awaiting some more details from Atlas.

EBT Jim posted:

Trying to find out if this concerns O or HO. Either way …. stinks.

Unfortunately it seems to be the norm there in China Manufacturing. Approximately every 5-7 years one shuts down and another opens up somewhere else. The trick is to get access to your tooling and move it completely to another manufacturing factility.  You [American importer] also hope that no one else has taken it and secretly made your items to be sold by someone else because after all, the government of China owns 53 percent of " your stuff" in their country!

This is certainly getting to be the norm for Atlas. I like their products and own my fair share, but this is getting real old. Regardless of who closed or walked out, etc, etc. it’s still on Atlas’s shoulders. Wonder how much more of this before the customer base will be affected. I know I am tired of it. 

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Absolutely great news and a new opportunity for the factory to return to Hillside NJ.

AS Much as I like the garden state, forget NJ to start up any mfg. here! This tax and spend administration does NOT make it viable for businesses. you might as well set up shop in PA or DE and save some dough!

Really?  Paid Family leave! You are lucky yo get a health care plan and matching in your 401k [if you even have one or are eligible for one] within a year!

Jim Waterman posted:

I can just see it now, a couple of hundred employees each running out the back door with a couple of pieces of production tooling. 

 

Something much like this happened in the plastic kit industry. One manufacture went under/closed. Tooling was to be transferred to another shop. Some vital tooling met with an accident and was beyond use.  This with some other events ended up with the company being sold. FYI

Jim Waterman posted:

I can just see it now, a couple of hundred employees each running out the back door with a couple of pieces of production tooling. 

 

I heard that happened when Lionel was moving to Mexico years ago?

Labor costs are even lower in Mexico but the overall infrastructure of related suppliers isn't there. As I simplically understand these things. But discounting that one imagines the proximity would make product cycles way shorter.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

  You [American importer] also hope that no one else has taken it and secretly made your items to be sold by someone else because after all, the government of China owns 53 percent of " your stuff" in their country!

 

And there is the biggest ignored issue with manufacturing in China. I've worked with manufactures in China and they did good work. BUT this deal where China is the majority partner, like it or not, in your business is a bomb waiting to explode.  If you study up on the Chinese '100 year plan' it will reveal their end game.....if we keep playing along. 

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

EBT Jim posted:

Unfortunately it seems to be the norm there in China Manufacturing. Approximately every 5-7 years one shuts down and another opens up somewhere else. 

 

That's not the case for Mike Wolf. How does he manage too keep the same factory?

"That's not the case for Mike Wolf. How does he manage too keep the same factory?"

I'm pretty sure that isn't entirely correct.  There was Samhongsa in Korea, who did all their diecast locos, and disappeared some years back.  More recently I seem to recall that at least one of the factories MTH was using closed down and there was some delay in finding another facility to use the tooling.

Our importers apparently have very little direct control of the factories in China, at least for these cottage industries, which are small potatoes compared with the likes of Apple, as an extreme example.

In the long run, it is unfortunately more than just about our trains! 😐

Tinplate Art posted:

In the long run, it is unfortunately more than just about our trains! 😐

Correct.....our train issues just show themselves more easily than when a BIG consumer company gets hit....they have the cash and influence to make the issue seamless.......our micro hobby companies get caught. 

To be fair, Atlas never produced O gauge locomotives and rolling stock out of Hillside, NJ. The company did make track there for a long time and also produced N scale freight cars at its New Jersey plant for roughly 15 years before moving all production to China.

In fact, all other products sold under the Atlas name came from plants elsewhere over the years.

In the 1970s, Atlas worked extensively with Roco in Austria for O, HO and N scale locomotives and some O gauge rolling stock and imported some Rivarossi locomotives in N scale from Italy.

In the 1980s, Atlas began working with Kato in Japan for a line of N scale locomotives.

After all manufacturing switched to China, everything went fairly smoothly until Atlas and dozens of other train manufacturers were booted out of the Sanda Kan factory after Kader (Bachmann’s parent company) purchased the facility. Since then, many of those companies have had production problems, including delays and quality issues. The region of China where almost all of our trains are made reportedly has a labor shortage, which is contributing to those problems.

- Did not Lionel and Atlas share a diesel and rolling stock builder at one time, say, 10 years ago? I perceived that their product in certain categories were apparently identical, for a while. 

- On the MTH question, did not/does not MTH actually own some production facilities? In Korea, maybe?

I'm out of touch with this end of things, obviously.

As much as I'd like to see American production, I understand it's not feasible. What might be a good option for Atlas is to move in to the Rapido factory. Jason had mentioned wanting another train manufacturer in the with him. 

As a side note, I guess my wallet gets another break from having to pay for my F3s and SD40...

So sad-too bad. Be nice to your old Lionels, that is all you might have some day.

D500 posted:

- Did not Lionel and Atlas share a diesel and rolling stock builder at one time, say, 10 years ago? I perceived that their product in certain categories were apparently identical, for a while. 

- On the MTH question, did not/does not MTH actually own some production facilities? In Korea, maybe?

I'm out of touch with this end of things, obviously.

Lionel and Atlas both had product made at Sanda Kan until 2010. Same place as K-Line, USA Trains, Athearn and many others globally.

The economics of this situation is not lost on me but there are locations in this great country where wage rates are low.  Why can't the design and production be brought back?  Just think of the cost savings in travel to the Orient and back to check on design and production and, of course, the cost of shipping back to the the USA.  Seems workable to me.  It is up to Atlas, Sunset and others to work out the details and to determine actual feasibility.  But a closed factory seems like reason enough to explore the possibility.

Ed

Will Ebbert posted:

As much as I'd like to see American production, I understand it's not feasible. What might be a good option for Atlas is to move in to the Rapido factory. Jason had mentioned wanting another train manufacturer in the with him. 

As a side note, I guess my wallet gets another break from having to pay for my F3s and SD40...

Here are a couple of video links from Rapido about its factory in China in 2016 and its plans in late 2017 to move to a different region in China and information on production problems in China:

https://youtu.be/tlbMfyaOykE

https://youtu.be/4uTSdY4dGGY

Ed Kelly posted:

The economics of this situation is not lost on me but there are locations in this great country where wage rates are low.  Why can't the design and production be brought back?  Just think of the cost savings in travel to the Orient and back to check on design and production and, of course, the cost of shipping back to the the USA.  Seems workable to me.  It is up to Atlas, Sunset and others to work out the details and to determine actual feasibility.  But a closed factory seems like reason enough to explore the possibility.

Ed

It's happening in the plastic kit industry. A  new company has started and is 100% made in USA.  The design, tooling, manufacture, packaging ALL done in southern California!!!! Now the price is about 16% more than the China produced kits.......but cost of a totally new start-up needs to be taken into account. 

And yes....development time went from 2-3 years for a kit from China to just shy of 12 months for USA kit.  I know a powered loco with multiple PC boards, assembled and painted is a apple to orange compare....but it does shine light it can be done stateside.

I can't get to weepy about the American companies getting burned by the Chinese. They asked for it so now they pay. These companies, such as they are-sit in the US with a couple of computers and telephones and communicate back & forth with China. They are lazy, take the easy way, make a few bucks and go on to something else. Guess what ??  Suck it up !!  Deal with it !!  Quit crying.

Another delay in getting the Grand Trunk & Western F3’s☹️

D500 posted:

- On the MTH question, did not/does not MTH actually own some production facilities? In Korea, maybe?

I'm out of touch with this end of things, obviously.

According to the video tour posted on train World TV, MTH's facility is dedicated to just MTH. There might be separate sites dedicated to RailKing and Premier, respectively (I haven't reviewed the video recently, at nearly an hour and a half, it is a bit of effort to rewatch for a forum post ). 

As for the idea of setting up a facility in a low-wage part of the US, there is also the issue of the network of sub-contractors needed to supply parts and assemblies that aren't practical to manufacture in-house (nuts/bots/screws/circuit boards, for example)

(Edit:, after re-viewing the Rapido video's linked to by Jim R. above, there is also the not-insubstantial issue of accumulated institutional knowledge needed to do the job properly--some of the engineers shown have been working in model train manufacture for 20+ years)

---PCJ

a1hobo posted:

This is certainly getting to be the norm for Atlas. I like their products and own my fair share, but this is getting real old. Regardless of who closed or walked out, etc, etc. it’s still on Atlas’s shoulders. Wonder how much more of this before the customer base will be affected. I know I am tired of it. 

I'll bet that this potentially sucks more for me than most folks. I sold off all of my 3-rail stuff (except for my Christmas layout) and have been waiting for my 2-rail Atlas engines to arrive so I can play with some trains. I'm also eagerly awaiting some HO engines from Atlas, as I've sold off most of my older equipment.

Still, this stuff sucks more for Atlas, than it sucks for any of us.

I'll always support Atlas …. they've been a big part of the hobby for me. Nice folks, too.

Train maker Bowser is now also caught in this same shutdown......not good.

This is definitely a topic not to like. I hope that things get wrenched out quickly. I haven't bought anything from Atlas since my old HO days, but I really do admire their rolling stock.

jim pastorius posted:

I can't get to weepy about the American companies getting burned by the Chinese. They asked for it so now they pay. These companies, such as they are-sit in the US with a couple of computers and telephones and communicate back & forth with China. They are lazy, take the easy way, make a few bucks and go on to something else. Guess what ??  Suck it up !!  Deal with it !!  Quit crying.

Clearly a lesson in economics is required here as well as a lesson on how the model railroad manufacturing process actually works.  Always easy to be an armchair quarterback when one has no knowledge of the subject. 

This is not good news for the industry as a whole.  If Lionel was the topic of this loss of a factory, the discussion would be much different on this forum. 

Yes Jim, that's all a person needs to run a business producing products in china and importing them into the US. If it were that easy, everybody here would be building and importing trains and we'd all have all of the models we ever wanted. I have a computer and a phone should I start a train business with china?

Other manufacturers are, indeed, involved...and not just in the O market...

Bowser, Fox Valley, Intermountain Railways to name a few.

Our (LHS) info is that the supplier became star-crossed with the Chinese government...who simply shut them down.  

C'est la vie.

dkdkrd posted:

Other manufacturers are, indeed, involved...and not just in the O market...

Bowser, Fox Valley, Intermountain Railways to name a few.

Our (LHS) info is that the supplier became star-crossed with the Chinese government...who simply shut them down.  

C'est la vie.

So, KD …. do you guys know if it DOES include Atlas' O scale products … and not just HO?

Jim