Atlas Reveals First MTH Model

Hopefully they will ditch the pin stripes on the Southern Pullman green cars. Sets like those can still be found 2nd hand. The MTH run without the stripes are impossible to find. I never saw a photo of a real Southern car with pin stripes either.

I may be late to the MTH/Atlas deal specifics, but the announcement might infer that MTH is not dissolving but will be doing business in the steam locomotive end of the business. Just a thought.

Edit: Sorry. Just saw another thread on the MTH Pacific steamer being issued. Like I said, I'm late to the party.

That's nice teamwork between the two companies. Personally, I hope the make the Reading and Northern Dome Car again. I missed ordering it the first time and now cannot find one.

@pennsynut posted:

I may be late to the MTH/Atlas deal specifics, but the announcement might infer that MTH is not dissolving but will be doing business in the steam locomotive end of the business. Just a thought.

Edit: Sorry. Just saw another thread on the MTH Pacific steamer being issued. Like I said, I'm late to the party.

Good point.  I don't know what to think about the lack of steam engines in the original announcement and then this announcement.  Maybe there is something there that I skipped over.  I seem to be getting that way more and more.

@pennsynut posted:

I may be late to the MTH/Atlas deal specifics, but the announcement might infer that MTH is not dissolving but will be doing business in the steam locomotive end of the business. Just a thought.

I don't know, but today's MTH e-newsletter says otherwise, as have previous official MTH communications:

"March 24, 2021 - M.T.H. Electric Trains will be releasing a dozen limited-edition releases of the Premier Line 4-6-2 USRA Heavy and PS-4 Pacific steam locomotives later this Summer. These unique releases are part of a series of products representing the last M.T.H. production runs as the company concludes its 41-year history. Each of these offerings is expected to arrive in September 2021."

Again, I have no inside information, but it seems we'll soon hear more from MTH about the disposition of the tooling for the Premier steam engines as well as the RailKing product line. Personally, I'm very pleased with the transactions announced so far--this one with Atlas and the previous one with ScaleTrains--and I'm hopeful about the remaining transaction(s).

Keith, I think your thinking sounds very probable.

I’m detired too!!  I always forget to tell you I like that statement 😄

Wish Atlas would work on the tooling and offer in 20-21"

Absolutely Paul.  I can’t run them on my small layout, but the long cars I see at the Pittsburgh Independent HiRailers setups are fantastic!

Not a big surprise. I suspect these were already in the MTH pipeline and now they just put them in an Atlas box rather than a MTH box. It’s not like they had to start from scratch.

Good choice though. Now it will be interesting to see their first engine.

@pennsynut posted:

I may be late to the MTH/Atlas deal specifics, but the announcement might infer that MTH is not dissolving but will be doing business in the steam locomotive end of the business. Just a thought.

Edit: Sorry. Just saw another thread on the MTH Pacific steamer being issued. Like I said, I'm late to the party.

I’m not sure how that conclusion can be inferred from the announcement. MTH is being sold off, piece by piece.  The only we can infer is that the steam locomotive tooling hasn’t been sold off yet.

@MartyE posted:

Not a big surprise. I suspect these were already in the MTH pipeline and now they just put them in an Atlas box rather than a MTH box. It’s not like they had to start from scratch.

Good choice though. Now it will be interesting to see their first engine.

BINGO!! Atlas doesn’t move that fast and go from acquiring tooling to dealers shelf in 5 months .

@MartyE posted:

Not a big surprise. I suspect these were already in the MTH pipeline and now they just put them in an Atlas box rather than a MTH box. It’s not like they had to start from scratch.

Good choice though. Now it will be interesting to see their first engine.

Of course they’re not starting from scratch.  Why would they?  That would sort of defeat the purpose of acquiring existing tooling, wouldn’t it?

Atlas has basically gained the ability to offer a whole bunch of ready-to-go products that can be built relatively quickly at well-run facilities with a proven track record for turning out quality products.  That has to be an incredibly refreshing concept for a company that has had so many issues bringing its products to market for so many years now.

Now all they have to do is select a former MTH item that they acquired, announce it, take orders, then build it if there’s enough demand...and then put it in an Atlas box.  Boom...just like that Atlas can put themselves back in the “O” game...if they want to be.  My gut tells me there will be many more “quick-to-market” products (at least by Atlas standards!) coming our way.

And if they’re going to coordinate product releases with the entity that becomes of the former MTH, then even better for them...and for those of us who enjoy purchasing/operating products from ALL manufacturers.  I wish Atlas nothing but success with this.  Who says “O” is dead?!?!

A logical starting point to test the waters.  A proven car that was built a bazillion times and the QC won't be as difficult with a car over a locomotive.  A smart move on their part, but in some ways dilutes the brand that has previously been known for scale excellence.

However, it doesn't take a genius to understand that scale excellence takes a back seat to a sound business practice.  Those who enjoy the 18" cars will be very happy and that is good for the market overall.

Nothing here for me; not even in the MTH locomotive tooling they procured, but I'm delighted with this news. I don't want to see these tools go unused or worse; to scrap. Maybe the next announcement will have something I'm interested in.

Well I must say, I'm more than a little disappointed . I thought they would carry on where MTH left off and release a multitude off items with all the molds that they purchased. Like maybe some diesels or premier rolling stock. Not the same old generic MTH passenger cars that aren't really accurate for any RR.
  Was really hoping ..... but , its not to be. I think it has been 5 years now we have been waiting for the Canadian Pacific RSD 7/15 HN. Hopefully we will not have to wait 5 years for Atlas to release an SD70ACu or AC44CW with DCS ps 3.0.

@GG1 4877 posted:

A logical starting point to test the waters.  A proven car that was built a bazillion times and the QC won't be as difficult with a car over a locomotive.  A smart move on their part, but in some ways dilutes the brand that has previously been known for scale excellence.

However, it doesn't take a genius to understand that scale excellence takes a back seat to a sound business practice.  Those who enjoy the 18" cars will be very happy and that is good for the market overall.

What’s the chance that all or nearly all of mth tooling goes into the trainman line. From the photos I’ve seen of the trainman dash 8, they look awesome. This is not to bash mth, if they live on through rail king, I will likely buy a ton, but will wait until the dust settles.

This is basically a fake announcement. "A full announcement with pricing will be available soon with an estimated delivery of September 2021." Its quite obvious this was in the MTH pipeline and the timing just landed such that they'll come out with a change of the box color.

They havent announced anything. No price, no specific offering, nothing. So in that regard, I'll remain cautiously optimistic that this is really just to help MTH sell the steam engines that were simultaneously announced (by showing people that a matching set of cars is going to come too), and help get the "ATH" operation off the ground by getting some orders moving.

I think we all hoped that getting a factory out of this would get atlas back in the engine production business again. I think its been about 3 years since they've delivered a locomotive. Hopefully the "full announcement" is just the April news letter that should be coming in about 3 weeks and it includes a locomotive announcement as well.

Do we know what the pirces will be like on these new pieces?

@GG1 4877 posted:

..".. A proven car that was built a bazillion times and the QC won't be as difficult with a car over a locomotive.  ....

......Those who enjoy the 18" cars will be very happy and that is good for the market overall.

These are 70’ cars, not 18” cars.  18” cars scale out to 72’.  That is why MTH never called them 18”.

@CAPPilot posted:

These are 70’ cars, not 18” cars.  18” cars scale out to 72’.  That is why MTH never called them 18”.

Then what's 70' in O Scale?

@Vandey posted:

Do we know what the pirces will be like on these new pieces?

I was wondering the same thing.

Also no mention if they will be done in 2 rail like other Atlas passenger cars. Perhaps the interest isn’t there in the 2 rail community but I don’t think it would be a big deal to build a few sets with the different trucks.

For me, the announcement I am waiting for is for the first Atlas (MTH) diesel locomotive.  Will it be offered with TMCC?

@Peter Araujo posted:

Then what's 70' in O Scale?

Divide by 4 and call it inches...

17.5”

MTH Premier Heavyweights are the same length as Lionel 18” cars from the 2000s, and K-Line 18” cars. No need to split hairs, they all work well together.

Pete

@GG1 4877 posted:

A logical starting point to test the waters.  A proven car that was built a bazillion times and the QC won't be as difficult with a car over a locomotive.  A smart move on their part, but in some ways dilutes the brand that has previously been known for scale excellence.

However, it doesn't take a genius to understand that scale excellence takes a back seat to a sound business practice.  Those who enjoy the 18" cars will be very happy and that is good for the market overall.

I thought heavyweight passenger cars were actually 70-72’ in real life?

Also, I just checked and the previously offered Atlas Trainman “Madison” coaches are listed as 60’.

@rplst8 posted:

I thought heavyweight passenger cars were actually 70-72’ in real life?

Also, I just checked and the previously offered Atlas Trainman “Madison” coaches are listed as 60’.

Nope.  Most were 80 footers.

The Atlas Trainman 60' coaches were patterned after actual C&NW prototypes.

Rusty

I'm seeing this as the passing of the baton to the next runner. The tooling Atlas acquired seems to be items that fill out their rolling stock line. MTH had a pretty extensive list of scale-sized rolling stock (Auto Racks and passenger cars aside) that other manufacturers didn't offer. Now, if they'll start re-running the centerbeam flat cars. . .

@Rusty Traque posted:

Nope.  Most were 80 footers.

The Atlas Trainman 60' coaches were patterned after actual C&NW prototypes.

Rusty

To add to Rusty's comments there are several cars in the 64'-72' range but they are not as common as the model railroad industry would have us believe.  As stated most were 80' cars.  Pullman Standards designs settled on 80' in the wood era of the 19th century with only some exceptions.  However notable exceptions include:

• The Harriman fleet largely used by SP, UP and some others.  They were built in 64' and 72' sizes.  Some of the early baggage cars were 30'. 
• Several Anthracite roads utilized 72' cars but normally on 2 axle trucks.  They didn't run the long distances that some the larger roads did.
• ATSF had a series of chair cars that were in the 70'-72' range.  I'd like to find a donor car to kitbash into one as they could be found at the end of the fast mail trains.  Famously the first streamlined RPOs were 53'. 
• Headend cars were often in the 70'-72' range.

Like everything it pays to know the prototype if that kind of thing interests you.  Like steam locomotives at the time, very few roads orders large fleets of passenger cars at once and there were a lot of builders.  When the streamlined era came along, then you start seeing more standard lengths with the ultimate standard length being 85' to this day.  This is partially due to the fact during the streamlined era, most of the new cars were predominantly built by three builders, Pullman Standard, Budd, and ACF. 

I did not see it listed in the features, but does Atlas plan on having figures in the passenger cars? That was a huge reason why I bought MTH passenger cars. They had wonderful painted scale figures inside of them.

@Keith L posted:

From Atlas website...

Atlas Reveals First MTH Model

Coaches, RPO Cars, Baggage, Dining, Combine and Observation cars will be produced (depending on road name).  Features on this first run of 70' Passenger Cars include:

• Durable ABS Intricately Detailed Bodies
• Metal Wheels and Axles
• Constant Voltage Overhead LED Interior Lighting
• Operating Die-Cast Metal Couplers
• Colorful, Attractive Paint Schemes
• End-of-Car Diaphragms
• Separate Metal Handrails
• Fast-Angle Wheel Sets
• Needle-Point Axles
• Detailed Car Interiors
• 1:48 Scale Dimensions
• Detailed Car Undercarriage
• Sliding Baggage Car Doors (on baggage cars)
• Die-Cast 6-Wheel Trucks
• Unit Measures: 19" x 2 7/16" x 3 1/2"
• Operates On O-42 Curves

A full announcement with pricing will be available soon with an estimated delivery of September 2021.

It would be helpful if Atlas will clarify whether people will be included in the cars.  Here's the similar standard MTH Madison features copied from the most recent 2019 v1 20-44054 SP Coach page.  Atlas did purchase the MTH figure sets as well.

• Intricately Detailed, Durable ABS Bodies
• Stamped Metal Floors
• Detailed Car Undercarriage
• Authentic Paint Scheme
• Metal Wheels and Axles
• Die-Cast 6-Wheel Trucks
• Fast-Angle Wheel Sets
• Needle-Point Axles
• (2) Operating Die-Cast Metal Couplers
• Constant Voltage Overhead LED Interior Lighting
• End-of-Car Diaphragms
• Separate Metal Handrails
• Detailed Car Interiors
• Sliding Baggage Car Doors
• Detailed Brake Wheel
• Each Passenger Car Contains 10 Hand Painted Figures
• 1:48 Scale Proportions
• Unit Measures: 19" x 2 7/16" x 3 1/2"
• Operates On O-42 Curves

Atlas has come a long way to make their first MTH announcement a non scale one.

- Crank

This thread is the epitome of “Haters gonna hate.”

This has been a fascinating thread. How often do you get to see real history in our hobby unfold  and get to comment on it in real time.

I assume they'll be offered in the next month's catalog, right?

Hate or fact?  I'm confused.

- Crank

Fact

Atlas is reproducing 70' heavy weight cars that are not scale. I don't have a problem with that, but sounds like some people do.

@Norton posted:

MTH Premier Heavyweights are the same length as Lionel 18” cars from the 2000s, and K-Line 18” cars. No need to split hairs, they all work well together.

Pete

All I was saying was that MTH refers to their passenger cars as 70 footers because they are only 17 1/2 inches long.  Looks like Atlas is going to continue with the MTH terminology.

The bigger issue with me is that the MTH cars ride lower (more realistic) than the Lionel cars I own, which have a fairly large gap between the truck and body.  As far as I'm concerned, an all MTH passenger train "looks" better than a mix of manufacturers, where I think the MTH car sits noticeably lower.  My Lionel and K-Line are closer in height and look better together to me.

I hope the Atlas cars maintain the lower, more realistic, ride height.

MTH in front, Lionel in back.

By the way, I hope Atlas builds the PRR baggage with the round window as shown on this MTH car.  This car is very close to a prototype PRR B70, unlike the Lionel car behind it which is nowhere near close.  I also hope they build the MTH PRR HW multi-window RPO with round windows on all doors (current ones are rare).

And if I'm allowed some wishful thinking knowing this will require new tooling, I hope Atlas puts a round roof on some HW releases to reflect a modernized HW car.  Many roads did this.

I do agree with others that these "scale" 70 footers is an interesting departure for Atlas, even though there were a few prototype 70/72 foot cars built.  Just an observation, not a hate statement.  I know there are a lot of forum members that cannot run/do not like a scale 80' car on their layout, so this is great news for them.  I hope Atlas' decision to build them works out well for the company.

I'm just glad they're able to keep these productions going. 

@DCFD Deputy Fire Chief (Retired) posted:

I'm just glad they're able to keep these productions going.

Welcome to the OGR Forum! I'm sure you'll enjoy the sharing of knowledge, information, and opinion.

I look forward to hearing more from you.

Keith L.