I use Lithium ion batteries from Radio Shack 8.4 volt

Get BCRs then you won't have to mess with batteries.

Dick M. has it right.  Get BCRs, they will make you a happy operator.

Ed Boyle

I jist changed all of my engines to BCRs no more battery problems

I just want the simplest possible solution, so only battery recommendations please.

I use Lithium ion batteries from Radio Shack 8.4 volt

I strongly suggest that you ensure that the battery's charging characteristics are compatible with the charging circuit in the engines, swell as the MTH battery chargers.

Lithium ion batteries can can be dangerous if not charged as specified.

Huh? Since you put it that way ... Nickel Metal Hydride wrapped in electrical tape so it doesn't short out anything

get a BCR Paul... they have the same connection clip .

Replacing batteries with BCRs in many locos gets into much money, unless you roll your own as does Gunrunnerjohn.  I agree with Barry regarding lithium-ion.  NiCad supposedly has less normal discharge while sitting idle than does NiMH, but the latter has no memory effect and no landfill pollution.  Eith NiCad or NiMH is a good choice.

Today I got thru with a PS2 upgrade install and had to open one of my previous installs to use the battery, one was NiCad and the other was NiMH, both from PS2 upgrades kits.  Without opening them back up and not really knowing which kit is newer I can only guess why they switched types.

No way I'd put a Li-ion battery into these, the charging characteristics are totally different.   Are you getting away with it?  Maybe in the short term.  Remember the laptops and phones that were catching fire?  Many of those were due to chargers not operating correctly.

One of many quotes on the topic.

Both batteries need sophisticated chargers, but they contain very different electronics. Li-ion chargers monitor the charging rate and cut the power if a problem is detected. Every make of Li-ion battery is different, so chargers offer variable voltages, currents and charging times, and failing to use the correct settings can be catastrophic. NiMH chargers lack the safety features needed for Li-ion batteries. For these reasons, charge Li-ion batteries only in Li-ion chargers. Using another charger may result in overheated batteries, chemical fires and explosions.

Read about the differences in charging here.

Charging Nickel-metal-hydride

Charging Lithium-ion

There are slight characteristic differences between the NiCad and the NiMH, but not really worth worrying about.  You are going to get about 7 years out of the 2.4V batteries and 5 out of the 8.4V

In general NiMH are safer for the environment than Cad, so you are seeing a transition to NiMH.  MTH only has the NiMH in 8.4V batteries, but still uses both for the 2.4V.

G 

NiCads hold a charge longer, however, they suffer from memory effect.

NiMHs discharge quicker, however, they do not suffer from memory effect and may be recharged more times than NiCads.

If you run a PS2 rarely, such as around the tree once a year for a few weeks, NiCads are better. Otherwise, use NiMHs.

NiMHs discharge quicker, however, they do not suffer from memory effect and may be recharged more times than NiCads

I don't know if that's true as I had a MTH green NiMH that held its charge for over a year. Maybe I just got a good one.  I can't say that for the NiCads.

I just want the simplest possible solution, so only battery recommendations please.

Ok... I'll beat the dead horse.  If you want the simplest solution, the BCR is the answer.  Installs like a new battery...then nothing to install again...ever.

If it's the cheapest solution you want, then go with a battery.  A BCR will run you about $24.  But over the long haul...

Speaking of dead horses, 21 locos times $24 each.  That $504.  Battery life has been running about 7 years.  If I live to be over 100, and each of my locos is still running, then I will have broken even, not considering the interest lost on the money.

It will engender less criticism to beat a dead horse than a live one, so don't be apologetic.

It will engender less criticism to beat a dead horse than a live one, so don't be apologetic.

Engender?  Did you get one of those "Word of the Day" calendars for Christmas?

Indubitably, Ron. I actually got it as a lagniappe when I subscribed to a gastronomic periodical.

I bought an MTH PS 2 back in 2002 brand new.  I forgot about it until last week.  Opened it up, put it on the track, put the power to it and it ran and sounded great.  Original battery,  no charging.  I put a bcr in it anyway.  Sounded a little better especially the crew talk.  And I don't have to worry about recharging it.  But at the same time I understand about the cost.  You do what you gotta do.  Do PS2 engines die like the PS1 engines if the batteries run down?

Rick

Gentlemen,

   I am a big advocate of the BCR, have them in most all my P2 engines, have never ever had a problem, for the P1, its almost a manditory.

PCRR/Dave

Rick,

 Do PS2 engines die like the PS1 engines if the batteries run down?

No, they do not.

It is a misnomer that PS-1 boards Die with low batteries.  Die implies gone for good to me, meaning a hardware fault in most cases.  Very early PS-1 did not have batteries, later versions had batteries with a switch, either of which would run with out the battery.  Later models needed the battery to  change direction, and in some cases weak batteries could cause the memory to get scrambled.  All this could be corrected.

PS-2 5V boards use the same 8.4V battery and some versions seem to be susceptible to issues with weak or dead batteries.  Same symptom of not coming out of neutral in conventional and even in DCS at times.  Also the charging system could get overloaded, so it seems that dead batteries in 5V times may actually contribute to a Dead 5V boards.  Nothing empirical here, but a body of circumstantial evidence.

PS-2 3V use the 2.4V battery and again a very weak battery can keep it from coming out of neutral in conventional or maybe it just can't shift to reverse, but no evidence of causing 3V boards to die.

Summary:  PS-1 software issue correctible

PS-2 5V possible damage to board;

PS-2 3V no significant issue

G

I've noticed that a discharged battery in 3V boards results in low audio until it charges sufficiently.  I have three 5V board sets with dead charging circuits in my dead boards box, like GGG I'm suspicious that the condition of the battery may have been a factor in the charging circuit's demise.

It could be that when the battery is dead, the charge current exceeds the capability of the charing circuit and damages it.  Maybe!

Maybe, but a new battery will draw excessive current from a start, so I'd think that would be an issue anyway.  Of course, if the battery is dead and continues to present a short, that could be a factor.

Since we don't really know how the charging circuit is designed, it's hard to say how robust it is.

Thanks for the tips.

When I said "simplest" solution with regards to batteries, I meant I can go out and purchase them. With BCRs, I have no clue as to where to find them, probably look in the magazine? Then order, then pay for shipping, wait to arrive, read instructions, etc. It's good to read here that they just plug in the clip.

THe 3V system monitor voltage present at the battery terminal.  May measure current too, but when the voltage is low, the processor reduces volume to protect the system.

BCRs are a perfect example of it in action.  When you plug a BCR into the battery terminal you have a short which knocks the voltage at the terminal down.  Volume is reduced as the BCR charges.  A soon as the BCR gets over about 2.2VDC the volume is restored to full volume as the BCR continues to charge to 5VDC.

When a good battery is installed, you are placing 2.5VDC onto the terminal and the boost circuit is not dragged down below 2.5VDC and the system doesn't need to reduce volume.   G

Reading between the lines of your last post:  Are you saying the 5-volt system doesn't effect a reduction?  If so, that would mean the current when a discharged 5-volt system BCR is powered up could damage the charging circuit, although I've heard no reports of that happening.

I have many more hours/days/months studying/working on 3V boards that include observations with measurements.  Plus tracing the system.

I have not put that effort into a PS-2 5V primarily because they are obsolete, too hard to work on, and not repairable in many ways.  So not worth the effort.

It is also a different model, with the processor at 5V but the battery at 8.4V.  So a buck circuit is probably used to reduce the battery voltage to 5V for use, and the main regulator is probably not charging the battery since it would be hard to charge a 8.4V battery with a 5V regulator.  So I think they are different.

I have heard from a reliable source the charging circuit can go bad, but I don't think volume is reduced with a bad battery because the battery isn't a drain on the 5V regulator like it is on the 3V system.

So I don't think it is cause and effect, the battery charge circuit may just have it's own issues and fails when a dead or shorted battery is used.  G

Paul, MB Klein (Model Train Stuff) has them:

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com...d-O-Gauge-s/1238.htm

I don't have any yet and some of my batteries are 10+ years old and all are original with the engine or upgrade kit.  Maybe I've been lucky or don't run my trains as often as I should or......, but so far I've had good luck with them.  I'll give the BCR a try when I need a new battery.

I have a couple of 5V PS/2 boards that have a bad battery circuit but are otherwise working.  I've probed around, but the fact that you can't reach most things on the board makes it a fruitless exercise.

Paul,

   Most all the local train stores/hobby shops have the BCR's, both kinds, most have them hanging right out where you can see them, some places however you must ask

the man behind the counter.

PCRR/Dave