Big Boy vs Challenger overhang

Why not just do what the prototype railroads would have had to do if they faced the same issues but wanted the locomotive nonetheless?

 

Send the crew out and relocate those signals and widen those portals! 

My 4023 measures about 21 3/4 for the loco only.

the length of the loco really does not mean anything, it is where the wheels pivot that will determine the overhang. as stated above , if you need more clearance then make it.

Thanks drgwdavid.  That is what I was looking for.

 

 

The vision line challenger is 32 1/2  . I also had a em1 and it is a lot like the big boy .. The over hang wasnt to bad on 072 but now I am using 084. 

PeterA, I cannot say for a Lionel scale Big Boy but my MTH Premier scale Big Boy has a measured overhang on GarGarve O72(all O72's are not the same) of 3 1/16-inch from centerline.

 

Ron

On my fairly small layout I run the Lionel 6-28064 4-6-6-4 Challenger #3985 and the Lionel 6-11104 4-8-8-4 Big Boy #4014.

If the Fastrack curves are kept apart by 6 inches (for exaxmple an O-72 curve inside of a concentric O-84 curve), then the overhangs do no impinge on adjacent side-by-side trains.

But the overhangs on the curves have been a serious problem for me with structures and accessories close to the track -- tunnel portals at the edge of a curve, signals, semaphores, telephone poles.  I have not measured the exact clearance required, but I have had to do a lot of trial-and-error placement of objects before finding a spot which is clear of the locomotive overhangs.

/Ralph

Well, here is the good news - bad news.  Measuring my Challenger, it is 20" from back of cab to tip of pilot.  That means that the Lionel catalog showing them both the same length is bogus.  drgwdavid's measurement means that the Big Boy is about 1 3/4" longer than the Challenger, which is what I would expect.

 

Does that mean I will give up on ordering one?  Probably not, as the main overhang problem with the Challenger is from the smoke deflectors mounted on the outside of the running boards, which the Big Boy does not have.  So, I will probably not resist - and make my wife happy!

Peter
Glad to see you talking about getting the Big Boy
Can't wait to come to your layout again so I can be Happy TOO
BILL LAZENBY

Peter,

I have had a Big Boy run on every layout I have built. After I collected all of the pieces of mountains, tunnels, and trees the Big Boy took out,

I happily continued to run the Big Boy. Measure all you want. Big Boy is going to rearrange places you have not found yet. 18 pounds of "Boy" at 18 volts will take out plaster mountains one, two, three.

 

Send me photos !!!!! LOL

 

Eliot

I have a Lionel Challenger and a Lionel Big Boy. The Challenger is 20" and the Big Boy is 22 3/4"

Some interesting info here but the real data gold mine for me is Ron's post where he gave an actual measurement for his MTH Premier scale Big Boy's overhang on GarGarves O72 of 3 1/16-inch from centerline.  I've been planning 3 1/4 inches from centerline for my 080/081 curves, so hopefully this will be a good distance for any engine a friend may bring over to run on my layout.

 

Ron

I have both the JLC Big Boy and the Vision Challenger. This morning I set them up on 72" curves and measured (pictures below).

 First, they are different lengths, as reported above.  The Big Boy is bigger, and its all in the loco.

 

Second, as I measured it just now:

The Big Boy has 3 1/8+ stick out.  Call it 3 5/32 although realize I cannot measure to 1/32nd accurately here . . .

The Challenger has 2 7/8th.

 

Third, there is this: when I laid out my big loop originally I measured my Big Boy's stick out and therefore I allowed 3 1/4 inches and I left exactly 3 1/4 inches in places: the Big Boy would not make it around without getting stuck in three places. These things "shake, rattle and roll" when they move and I'd allow at least 1/8 inch for that.  I had to go back and do that.

 

JLC Big Boy

 

Vision Challenger

 

Hi Ron, the measured overhang on GarGraves O80 was 2 15/16-inch.  Also "inhang" was 7/16-inch on O72 tapering to 3/8-inch on large Dia.

 

Ron

Bill,

We'll all have to wait a year to see the new Big Boys and who knows how long it will be before I clear all the "obstructions" it creates.  In the meantime, feel free to make a trip up here for a layout visit.

 

 

Ron and Lee,

 

Thanks for the great info!  I model the Pennsy and the clearance defining engine I have is the Lionel Centipede at 2 5/8 inches.  I knew the Big Boys swung out farther, but over 3 inches was a surprise.  I should not have any problems with scenery, but I will have to be careful in dispatching my GGD 80'/85' or K-line 21" passenger cars if a Big Boy is on the layout.

 

Ron

CAPPilot, maybe you can answer a question for me then . . . Do you know the maximum stick out - front, middle, or where-ever it is, on the MTH S1?  At 35", it is longer than a scale Big Boy and, I think, the longest scale steamer in O gauge, but I realize alot of that is the extremely long tender.  Regardless, a loco body that long has to jut out a lot.  I have the most recent offering on order.

Lee,

 

Sorry, I do not have the S1.  My layout era is very late 40s and the S1 was gone by 1946.  If I had it, I would have needed to design my layout differently.

 

Ron

Using GarGraves as reference, MTH S1 2 7/16-inch overhang and 1 3/8-inch "inhang" on O72.

 

Ron

Interesting, My MTH Cent on GarGraves O72 has max overhang at the unit's rear of 2 9/16-inch with "inhang" of 1 9/16-inch.

 

Ron

Thanks - it ought to make it around may layout then since the Big boy with 3.25" does.

Ron,

 

Looks like MTH's and Lionel's Centipedes are very close in design.  Here is an overhead shot of the Lionel engines;  when moving the trailing engine stills out a bit more then the lead engine.  The tissue box is at 2 5/8 inches from the centerline.  With the Big Boy, that box would be another 1/2 inch out.

 

 

Ron

With all the over/under hang distances, could you please include the reference (Like center rail, outer rail, edge of molded roadbed, and so on.).  I ask because I'd like to get some of these bigger locomotives at some point too, and in the past I did ask Lee about the BB overhang and he gave it from outer edge of the track.  But in this thread he didn't state the reference point.  I'd prefer center rail as the reference since it'll be the same for almost all track systems.  Thanks.

In this thread it the numbers I give are from the center rail

Thanks Lee.  So, if I want to plan ahead for the new Big Boy, keeping the center rail 3.25" from the wall should give me the clearance I would need for my around the room layout?