Boxcar Sunday, Let's see your boxcars.

Well I can't come close to Gillian Anderson (Scully), David Duchovny (Mulder) or Marylin Monroe and Groucho Marx so I thought I might go in an opposite direction and talk about toy trains and how one company Lionel used another's expertiese (Ives) to get through the depression.  In 1928 things were getting bad for everyone and Lionel and American Flyer partnered to help Ives stay in business.  In 1929 Lionel dissolved the partnership with American Flyer and bought out Ives directly and in 1931-32 moved Ives production from Bridgeport, Conn to their factory in Irvington, N.J.   While Lionel offered Ives trains in both '31 & '32 and published an Ives catalog it wasn't enough.  It was "red ink" both years for Lionel --the trains were just priced too high.  Lionel needed a low priced alternative.  Now, you need to be aware of the corporate culture in both Ives and Lionel.  They prided themselves on producing high quality trains and toys (Ives since 1898) and making a cheap toy with their name on it was horrifying!  However, it was that or go under.

Lionel hit upon using a technology that Ives was master at, lithography.  Joshua Lionel Cowen hated lithography, felt it made for "cheap" looking trains compared with his beautiful baked enamel finishes...but agreed to go along to survive.  In 1930 they put out what they called "the Winner Line"..."a train for little brother".  This was then changed in 1932 to "Lionel-Ives" and for the first time appeared in the Lionel catalog and by 1934 these only carried the name Lionel.

These little trains were a success...because of them thousands of families were able to give their children toy trains at Christmas that would never have been able to afford the regular line of Lionel.  These children went on to be the buyers of the 1940's and 1950's so maybe we owe our hobby to these little trains (kidding).

Anyway here are some of those "depression" era, lithographed, box cars (after all its box car Sunday!!).

Here is the 1514 Box car, this variation with the "Baby Ruth" candy bar from about 1934 .  It was in several sets, pulled by an Ives clockwork locomotive.  Offered through 1937.

In the middle 30's from about 1933 until 1939 and then to about 1942 with box couplers ( the number changed to 2679 ) was the next car in the progression.  This #1679 car is considerably larger than the 1514 above and designed to work with Lionel's regular line.  These became part of what would ultimately be labeled "0-27" in 1937. Note that the black oval was where they originally said "Ives RR Lines" in 1931, this was changed (and very little else in the livery) to Lionel in 1933.

Finally the last of the Ives cars were the much larger (9 1/2" long) cars.  These were produced as Ives cars in 1931&1932 but were then changed to Lionel (change in the black oval again) in 1933.  The depth of the Depression was 1932 so by 1935 or so things were bad but beginning to get better.  As a result, Lionel again side lined these cars and they never appeared in the consumer catalog.  They instead were part of many uncatalogued sets, typically appearing with a gray 249 locomotive.  These are the largest and most detailed lithographed cars Lionel made and were offered until 1942.  They made a gondola, box, and caboose (note in the Ives line, they also made a cattle car but that was not brought across into Lionel line).  Except for some color changes there were not a lot of variations in these cars.  I consider them very handsome representatives of the pre-war era.

Well that's it for my Sunday contribution.  May you have a very happy and healthy week

Best wishes

Don

Sorry Bill, das boot has one fine looking set of doors.  Well, here are my Lionel State of Maine boxcars finally got a good priced PW car Have a good Sunday all!

Some local favorites from my hometown area…

Tom

@Krieglok posted:

Some local favorites from my hometown area…

Tom

That WAG "sole leather line" car is really fun, Tom! One could imagine they are a steak supplier for bad restaurants And, as always, impeccable craftsmanship and unique historical insight on railroading on them all!

@Don McErlean posted:

Well I can't come close to Gillian Anderson (Scully), David Duchovny (Mulder) or Marylin Monroe and Groucho Marx so I thought I might go in an opposite direction and talk about toy trains and how one company Lionel used another's expertiese (Ives) to get through the depression.  In 1928 things were getting bad for everyone and Lionel and American Flyer partnered to help Ives stay in business.  In 1929 Lionel dissolved the partnership with American Flyer and bought out Ives directly and in 1931-32 moved Ives production from Bridgeport, Conn to their factory in Irvington, N.J.   While Lionel offered Ives trains in both '31 & '32 and published an Ives catalog it wasn't enough.  It was "red ink" both years for Lionel --the trains were just priced too high.  Lionel needed a low priced alternative.  Now, you need to be aware of the corporate culture in both Ives and Lionel.  They prided themselves on producing high quality trains and toys (Ives since 1898) and making a cheap toy with their name on it was horrifying!  However, it was that or go under.

Lionel hit upon using a technology that Ives was master at, lithography.  Joshua Lionel Cowen hated lithography, felt it made for "cheap" looking trains compared with his beautiful baked enamel finishes...but agreed to go along to survive.  In 1930 they put out what they called "the Winner Line"..."a train for little brother".  This was then changed in 1932 to "Lionel-Ives" and for the first time appeared in the Lionel catalog and by 1934 these only carried the name Lionel.

These little trains were a success...because of them thousands of families were able to give their children toy trains at Christmas that would never have been able to afford the regular line of Lionel.  These children went on to be the buyers of the 1940's and 1950's so maybe we owe our hobby to these little trains (kidding).

Anyway here are some of those "depression" era, lithographed, box cars (after all its box car Sunday!!).

Here is the 1514 Box car, this variation with the "Baby Ruth" candy bar from about 1934 .  It was in several sets, pulled by an Ives clockwork locomotive.  Offered through 1937.

In the middle 30's from about 1933 until 1939 and then to about 1942 with box couplers ( the number changed to 2679 ) was the next car in the progression.  This #1679 car is considerably larger than the 1514 above and designed to work with Lionel's regular line.  These became part of what would ultimately be labeled "0-27" in 1937. Note that the black oval was where they originally said "Ives RR Lines" in 1931, this was changed (and very little else in the livery) to Lionel in 1933.

Finally the last of the Ives cars were the much larger (9 1/2" long) cars.  These were produced as Ives cars in 1931&1932 but were then changed to Lionel (change in the black oval again) in 1933.  The depth of the Depression was 1932 so by 1935 or so things were bad but beginning to get better.  As a result, Lionel again side lined these cars and they never appeared in the consumer catalog.  They instead were part of many uncatalogued sets, typically appearing with a gray 249 locomotive.  These are the largest and most detailed lithographed cars Lionel made and were offered until 1942.  They made a gondola, box, and caboose (note in the Ives line, they also made a cattle car but that was not brought across into Lionel line).  Except for some color changes there were not a lot of variations in these cars.  I consider them very handsome representatives of the pre-war era.

Well that's it for my Sunday contribution.  May you have a very happy and healthy week

Best wishes

Don

Again, a great history lesson, Don. Thank you for putting such effort into your posts as they edify everyone.

@Sitka posted:

Sorry Bill, das boot has one fine looking set of doors.  Well, here are my Lionel State of Maine boxcars finally got a good priced PW car Have a good Sunday all!

Cannot go wrong with images of Jane Mansfield and Sophia Loren on a freight car, Jane could always work a crowded room to her advantage while Sophia was (and still is) a European beauty.

@Bill Swatos posted:

That WAG "sole leather line" car is really fun, Tom! One could imagine they are a steak supplier for bad restaurants And, as always, impeccable craftsmanship and unique historical insight on railroading on them all!

Thanks Bill. The WAG served a couple tanneries and hauled related products, including animal remains (hides) from slaughter houses, transported in open gondolas, to the tanneries!

The Arcade and Attica cars and WAG car are my creations. The other three, the G&W, B&S and Shawmut, are factory paint jobs from Crown/BCK Graphics…

Tom

@Krieglok- Tom great cars as always.  Great craftsmanship and imagination.  Thanks for posting.  @Bill Swatos - thank you for your complement.  I must admit that I enjoy doing the research and the forum gives me a place to post it to folks who are interested.  @Sitka - Great SOM cars.  Just for fun, here is Marx's take on the same car.

Best wishes eveyone

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

@Krieglok- Tom great cars as always.  Great craftsmanship and imagination.  Thanks for posting.  @Bill Swatos - thank you for your complement.  I must admit that I enjoy doing the research and the forum gives me a place to post it to folks who are interested.  @Sitka - Great SOM cars.  Just for fun, here is Marx's take on the same car.

Best wishes eveyone

Don

Tom great work as usual and for Bill great looking cars and Don that SOM car is sharp have to say they are sharp I did post awhile back my dad's Lionel HO SOM car that's pretty much what made me buy some. God Speed all! Mark

@Sitka- Thanks for your compliment.  There is no question that in the day of plain "boxcar red" cars the SOM car was a standout.  I think most every manufacturer in every scale made one.  I really love them.

Don

Rock Island by K-Line, K-Line & Atlas O

Lionel Boston & Albany Hudson (late 1980s model) hauling box cars:

Arnold

A couple new paint projects by me. Both MTH, one Premier and the other is a Railking 19th century car…

Tom

Here’s a nicely detailed Genco Olive Oil wood sided fantasy reefer, offered by Roundhouse South -

@Strap Hanger posted:

Here’s a nicely detailed Genco Olive Oil wood sided fantasy reefer, offered by Roundhouse South -

I got mine yesterday as well. What a GREAT looking car. I think there were only 88 made. I hope Tony does more - maybe a Luca Fish Reefer...

Paul

@Krieglok posted:

A couple new paint projects by me. Both MTH, one Premier and the other is a Railking 19th century car…

Tom

Tom, as usual great work. Funny thing, yesterday I was looking at a train magazine from the 30's and saw this logo. I immediately thought of you since you're doing a lot from that era. It wasn't on a car, so your rendition really shows it off.

@Railrunnin posted:

I got mine yesterday as well. What a GREAT looking car. I think there were only 88 made. I hope Tony does more - maybe a Luca Fish Reefer...

Paul

That is a great idea! I’d buy one in a heartbeat. I asked Tony if they were doing a Genco tank car to go along with the reefer. He said they attempted that but MTH sold the tank car molds, so that was no longer an option. I certainly hope Roundhouse keeps them coming.

With three Lionel shark/tiger nose diesels in my toy train inventory, I wanted to pay homage to "Claire Lee Chennault," the original flying tiger.

Have a good Sunday all, Hobo family going on vacation

One of my hobo boxcars.

The car is K-Line K765-1751 New York Central O scale classic modern Boxcar #92102.

MELGAR

On the tracks in the Houston area, I don't see many box cars, mainly tank cars, auto carriers, gondolas, and hoppers.  Unfortunately I can't remember too many details of the boxcars from when I grew up in the Pittsburgh area.  My fading memory, along with the few recent sightings of boxcars is that they are all pretty dull, no color graphics only road names.  My question is, do boxcars have the advertising stuff painted on them, like the olive oil, Baby Ruth, etc.?  Or is this merely a whimsical thing?

Couple of oldies from the past...

@texgeekboy Back in the early 1900s, there was advertising for non-Railroad companies on reefers. IRRC it was banned in the 1930s by the ICC. Sometimes on specialized cars, with private owners, the industry’s advertising vs the railroad’s was shown. That’s more tank and vat cars, and that sort of thing, though. Another exception was the various refrigerator car pools owned by multiple railroads, like Pacific Fruit Express, though I’m not sure where one wants to draw the line between road name vs advertising there.

So, a lot of the toy trains with branded cars are just for fun. Some PW Lionel and others are interesting because they promoted the other brands of products those companies made (like airrex fishing tackle, for example).

Well here are mine for this fine Sunday.  Following Dave Ripp's lead, here are a couple of 0-27 Lionel Rock Island boxcars.

For Krieglok, here is Lionel's take on "The Peoria Gateway" the Minneapolis and St. Louis

Here is a double door Lionel version from the Spokane, Portland and Seattle RR.

Best Wishes to everyone for a happy and healthy week to come.

Don

@Redshirt214,

Thanks for the info.  I don't recall ever seeing a box car with Baby Ruth or other such nice looking pictures on them.  I guessed they were essentially fantasy things.

Mail call on Saturday. The Atlas O All Door Box car. Not my first Box car but it is my first All Door.

@Dave Ripp. posted:

Tom, as usual great work. Funny thing, yesterday I was looking at a train magazine from the 30's and saw this logo. I immediately thought of you since you're doing a lot from that era. It wasn't on a car, so your rendition really shows it off.

Thanks Dave! This decal set from K4 caught my eye. The IC seems like a “railroad standard” in railroad lore and history, so it was a natural choice. I had never seen that logo before.

In keeping with the subtle Rock Island undertones in today’s thread, here are some Rock Island cars I painted. You all have probably seen these before here…

i

This was a recent attempt at a modern RI car. The project went well until the clear coat darkened the paint, except under the decals…this one went back to the paint shop and returned as a N&W boxcar…

I will try another Blue RI car soon…

Tom

Well, it’s a rainy day here in middle Tennessee, NFL Football playoffs are looming and it’s a great day to check out some beautiful box cars. Some are mine and some are in display at the Roundhouse Hobby Shop in Louisville Kentucky…. Happy Railroading Everyone

A long train of boxcars passes a snow extra. This is split evenly between K line & Lionel: the Alco FA, P&G Boxcar, and NP double door boxcar, are K Line, and the Wabash double door and N&W boxcar are Lionel, as it the NKP Caboose.

Woke up this morning to discover outside someone had turned on winter! Hence the Rotary Snowplow extra.

@Krieglok posted:

Thanks Dave! This decal set from K4 caught my eye. The IC seems like a “railroad standard” in railroad lore and history, so it was a natural choice. I had never seen that logo before.

In keeping with the subtle Rock Island undertones in today’s thread, here are some Rock Island cars I painted. You all have probably seen these before here…

i

This was a recent attempt at a modern RI car. The project went well until the clear coat darkened the paint, except under the decals…this one went back to the paint shop and returned as a N&W boxcar…

I will try another Blue RI car soon…

Tom

Tom, I like the green one a lot. I have not seen green before other than some dark green express boxcars. As for the Blue my dad always said good from far but far from good LOL. At any rate it's better than I could do. It's not my era either but I always loved the bankruptcy scheme.

@Dave Ripp. posted:

Tom, I like the green one a lot. I have not seen green before other than some dark green express boxcars. As for the Blue My Dad always said good from far but far from good LOL. At any rate it's better than I could do. It's not my era either but I always loved the bankruptcy scheme.

They are out there in model form, but not much actual photographic documentation. I did find a couple photos but I probably can’t post them here.

I am guessing the green was the generation before the last bright blue cars…

Tom

@Dave Ripp. posted:

Rock Island by K-Line, K-Line & Atlas O

A little late to the game today, but when I saw Dave's silver K-Line CRI&P "Rockets," I had to include Lionel's PS-1 PW scale version that I just got from Mario's:

It even has boxed cargo:

The "Rockets" car above came in a "two-fer" with the same car in M&StL red livery:

I'd never heard of these PS-1 cars (I thought PS/1 was only an IBM PC) before I received these and I'm really happy with them, especially for just over $60 delivered for both. They've got laser-cut metal catwalks, a bunch of separately applied details (including brakewheel chain!), diecast undercarriage and they roll so easily I think one of my BEEPs might be able to pull about 50 of 'em on the level. I hope I can find more.

P&W

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Lionel Boston & Albany Hudson (late 1980s model) hauling box cars:

Arnold

Beautiful consist, Arnold. In the early 80’s, I was uninformed about the history of the B&A… had I known it was, at one time, part of the NYC - one of my favorites - I might have purchased one. I did get the NYC 783 from the same period and the slightly later NYC 785. One question - I love the two NH boxcars (no surprise there)… are they post war??? Somewhere in the basement I have 2 PW NH boxcars which look quite similar.

@MELGAR posted:

One of my hobo boxcars.

The car is K-Line K765-1751 New York Central O scale classic modern Boxcar #92102.

MELGAR

That’s a beautiful paint scheme, Mel - I don’t remember seeing it before. Do you know if it is an actual NYC scheme or is it a fantasy???

@Apples55 posted:

Beautiful consist, Arnold. In the early 80’s, I was uninformed about the history of the B&A… had I known it was, at one time, part of the NYC - one of my favorites - I might have purchased one. I did get the NYC 783 from the same period and the slightly later NYC 785. One question - I love the two NH boxcars (no surprise there)… are they post war??? Somewhere in the basement I have 2 PW NH boxcars which look quite similar.

Paul, the black NH boxcar is postwar; the orange double door NH boxcar is modern.

The B&A Hudson is one of my favorite locomotives. The one in my video is a Lionel conventioal made in the mid to late 1980s. It's a little too peppy. Would love to get one with speed control (PS2 or 3, LC+ or Legacy) that runs on 031 curves, but that may never have been made. I think it may have been made for wider curves. But that won't work on my layout. They may have made a TMCC that runs on 031, but that is not ideal for me because I don't have TMCC installed on my layout yet. Arnold

Thanks, Arnold. Here are pics of my two PW cars - the orange 2-door was from my brother’s set from the early 60’s and the black was from one of my cousin’s sets (probably late 50’s - early 60’s). I am the keeper of all the family’s PW trains including my own.

@Sitka posted:

Have a good Sunday all, Hobo family going on vacation

Those hobos seem to have a pretty good clothing budget, Mark!

@texgeekboy posted:

On the tracks in the Houston area, I don't see many box cars, mainly tank cars, auto carriers, gondolas, and hoppers.  Unfortunately I can't remember too many details of the boxcars from when I grew up in the Pittsburgh area.  My fading memory, along with the few recent sightings of boxcars is that they are all pretty dull, no color graphics only road names.  My question is, do boxcars have the advertising stuff painted on them, like the olive oil, Baby Ruth, etc.?  Or is this merely a whimsical thing?

Sadly, economic forces have ensured that containerized "multi-modal" freight is about all one sees today instead of "traditional" boxcars. I live near I-10 and the major UP mainline that runs along it through the Coachella Valley and about all I see is containerized freight consists from Port of Los Angeles headed east with 3 lead locos and 2 helpers following up filled with, you guessed it, mostly Chinese-made products. Nothing against the people of China, but I sure would like to see fewer of those trains because we are making more products here.

Regarding the advertising boxcars, most of them are "fantasy" schemes that the maker licenses from the advertised product companies. It's a "win-win" since the maker sells more rolling stock and the advertised product gets promoted via another advertising medium.