Brass car & metal Kadees

Best bet is to get Kadee #745 couplers on all brass cars just as a precaution. This is a metal coupler in a plastic draft box. That way you insulate the couplers from the car and don't run the risk of a short if you get hold of a car that's equipped with single-insulated axles. You get an issue when car "A" has the insulators on one rail, while car "B" coupled to it has them on the other and you have metal couplers in metal boxes on both -- the coupling produces a short. On the issue of single-insulated axles like Intermountain, make sure that when you install them in a metal truck that the insulators are on the same side of the truck and that the insulators of both trucks are on the same rail side of the car. Got hold of a brass car where one truck was backward -- found out when it tripped an insulated rail on the club layout.

Matt, thanks for quick reply - and especially the tip about single insulated wheelsets - would not have thought of that until the short occurred. 

 

As to the KTM cars, here's a photo of the end of one of the gons - the car has it's own built-in draft box as part of the center sill (brass of course) and there's no room for the Kadee plastic draft box.  I suppose trimming the sill with a Dremel to allow for the installation of the Kadee plastic box would work, but I'd prefer not to have to start slicing these up (especially this one since the paint is good).

 

If you have couplers already, you can buy the plastic boxes separate. I got some I can send you, cuz I wont use the plastic boxes.

Are you sure the draft gear box wont slide right in there? Trim off the side mount holes and the rear if you have to. I would think, its made to fit the box.

Laidoffsick - I will trim the Kadee boxes down and try that.

 

And many thanks for your gracious offer - I bought a "few extra" Kadee plastic boxes when I was converting my 3R cars.  Inadvertently, I didn't notice there were _10_ per pack, so I ended up with a 100 of them, which will last me more than a lifetime 

These older brass cars have some small collectors value, which you can diminish by even the most careful Dremel cutting.  Unless you are dead- set on shunting different lengths of gons on a hump yard, just get some plastic dummies and install them.  Then, for your switchable cars, consider the MTH GS gons.  You have to make frame extensions for them anyway, so make them to accept Kadee boxes.

 

Matt is correct - insulate everything for 2-rail.  That means couplers on all metal cars.  That is why Kadee makes plastic boxes for metal couplers.

 

They are your cars - cut them if you wish. Just realize that they will not be quite as true to prototype with the wider Kadee box.  And their value will decrease, should you ever want to sell.

Greff,

 

You can also get Kadee 804s.   these are made of Delrin (engineering Plastic).   They are/were made in both black and rust color.   

 

then file off the centering nub on the bottom of the coupler shank, and then fill in the slot in the shank with an 1/8' square styrene rod.   fit the coupler in the pocket and mark for a mounting hole.    Take the coupler out and drill with a #50 drill and then tap for a 2-56 screw.   

 

I have a half dozen or so brass cars on the layout done this way.   You give up the centering, but you don't mess up the end of the car.   

Jim's solution is excellent. I hadn't encountered a vintage car with built-in draft boxes yet, but that's the most logical way to put on couplers and not have issues. I have a suspicion that those cars may have been designed in the era of outside third rail where insulating the car wasn't an issue, which explains a non-insulated set of vintage code 172 wheelsets I blundered across.

 

Nice car, by the way.

I sliced them out and installed kd box

The Brass Max Grey and later USHobbies cars were designed and imported well past the time that outside third rail was common.    I think it started to disappear after WW II.    MG stuff came in, in the 50s and early 60s I think and USH followed on into 70s.  USH took over the business from Max Grey.   

 

All those brass imports were sold without trucks and couplers.   Probably to consider that some were using outside 3rd rail.    Both Max Grey and US Hobbies also sold very nice cast brass trucks.    They are sprung and and highly detailed.   the examples I have have "Bettendorf" cast into the side frame like the prototypes.   All the ones I have seen were one side insulated for 2-rail track.    the only couplers I have seen from MG or USH were dummies.

 

these cars were considered state of the art when they came in.   Now they no longer has as much detail as newer imports and some of the plastic.   However, they are still nice cars with good visible detail, and they are sturdy.  

using plastic boxes and metal couplers will still require nylon screws into a brass body. the metal coupler shaft can conduct through metal screws to the body.

 

based on your photo, leave the draft box and just add the coupler, or a piece of coupler box behind the draft box.

 

With all the plastic truck frames and bolsters that are available from Intermountain, San Juan, Red Caboose, and even Athearn to insulate the brass car body from the track current, I don't bother with insulating couplers.  For metal trucks, often one of the plastic bolsters will fit.  Lots of easier ways to skin this particular cat.

 

Charlie

"With all the plastic truck frames and bolsters that are available from Intermountain, San Juan, Red Caboose, and even Athearn to insulate the brass car body from the track current, I don't bother with insulating couplers."

 

    As noted above Kadee makes a delrin O scale coupler  so no need to insulate the bolsters....DaveB

I also agree with PRRJim - you can stick just the Kadee in there without messing up a good car.  If you do cut, you can indeed use metal screws, since the plastic Kadee box has a plastic case over the center screw.

 

At one point I had a few cars with metal couplers and double- insulated wheels.  My Lionel 700 cars are still that way.  But if you get too many, you can start to have shorts between cars that can be difficult to trouble- shoot.  Stick with plastic couplers or plastic boxes.

 

And look at photos of the real thing - draft gear boxes look a lot more like the MG models than they do Kadee.

Thanks to all for great tips.  

 

Attempted the plastic KD draft box, but the sill spacing is too narrow in this KTM/MG/USH gon, even when trimming the lateral holes.  I then trimmed a couple of plastic 806's and inserted them directly into the sill which worked like a charm.  I didn't fill the shank channel; instead, I inserted a Kadee spring just in front of the screw which lessens the slack - it compresses only when coupled and is solid when pulling.

 

Love the advice here - very much appreciated.  As a result, am tackling a fixed pilot on an Atlas GP15 (3R).  So far, have not screwed it up.  Hope to tackle the noisy drive train on the OMI Alco RS11 in the next week or two.

 

...gregg

forgot about the sleeve inside the plastic box.

 

if you find the Kadee box to be too wide, try using the box from an Intermountain kit, it is narrower than the Kadee box. I've used them in installations where the Kadee box was too wide.

Good suggestions all-around here.  Having standardized ~95% to plastic Athearn trucks with IM wheelsets, I generally by-pass this issue.  I also tend to move the all metal trucks onto all wood cars.