C&O 1309?

Re: 1309, it appears we might have the continuation of the same management trend . . . exciting press releases and PR events ("under steam by New Year's Eve!"), followed by nothing, for months.  While I'm sure there's been a lot of progress and hard work on the locomotive by a lot of very dedicated people, this is the way it's been for years with this project.  Management is either terrible at forecasting when stuff will actually happen, or terrible at setting the public's expectations (or both) to the point of being non-communicative.  My personal feeling is that they have too many irons in the fire (e.g., they just posted about their new dome car, which no doubt cost a ton of money . . . how much money and time was spent on that which could have been allocated towards the 1309 project instead?)  Etc.  Singular focus is EVERYTHING on a complex project like 1309.  Perhaps WMSR doesn't have that luxury.

Re: the track rehab, WMSR has been running excursions with their diesel(s) for awhile this season so I'm guessing the track was rehabilitated enough to pass a Federal inspection, or they wouldn't be able to legally run.

part of the 1309 issue is that there are pieces of the stoker that they are still waiting on.  It seems as if a lot of things are hard to get at the moment with the state of the world.

Funding for cars and repair of passenger equipment was through separate grants than the locomotives, which when you think about it, shows they had a balanced approach to the entire thing... dealing with landslides, track issues, refreshing old cars, maintaining diesels, bringing a fresh new look car into the mix, major theft, and a restoration that was much more involved and difficult than originally expected.  They need all of those pieces working together to run the steamer in regular service and any business needs to focus on cash flow and keeping employees working - running trains and putting butts in the seats.   In other forums, other eastern tourist railroads have reported premium services - like the dome car - are more popular than ever and make more money.  Just look at Strasburg with the "President's car," two dinning cars, parlor cars and open cars. 

It also would not surprise me, given the number major steam locomotive restorations going on in the East right now and the limited number of people who can do specialized work, they could also be in a queue to get the work done.  Plus, it seems to me, at the time of the steam up, they were pretty clear there was more work to be done and it would be several months.  Also, contract shops like Strasburg, where some specialized parts might be made do work on tiered levels - lowest cost as time allows, highest cost if you need it tomorrow.

IMHO, it will be a real win if they can have 1309 operating in time for the fall colors.  A seat in that dome car with 1309 in front would be a nice ticket to ride.

"it appears we might have the continuation of the same management trend . . . Management is either terrible at forecasting when stuff will actually happen, or terrible at setting the public's expectations (or both) to the point of being non-communicative."

It is time to update yourself.

WMSR is under new management: Link.

News release in April re: 1309 and re-opening: Link

And, they had their first sold-out trains of the season last weekend.

The locomotive has very little left to do on it and they're waiting for delivery of minor parts, but the same crew operating these successful trips is also the crew working on 1309.

There have been plenty of updates on their social media and email newsletter regarding all of the above. I would take all of these as indicators that things are hardly part of the old trend.

@nathansixchime posted:

"it appears we might have the continuation of the same management trend . . . Management is either terrible at forecasting when stuff will actually happen, or terrible at setting the public's expectations (or both) to the point of being non-communicative."

It is time to update yourself.

WMSR is under new management: Link.

News release in April re: 1309 and re-opening: Link

And, they had their first sold-out trains of the season last weekend.

The locomotive has very little left to do on it and they're waiting for delivery of minor parts, but the same crew operating these successful trips is also the crew working on 1309.

There have been plenty of updates on their social media and email newsletter regarding all of the above. I would take all of these as indicators that things are hardly part of the old trend.

Thanks for the info on the new director -- I'd missed that recent event.

With all due respect, the public has been told that "the locomotive has very little left to do on it" for years now (even going so far as to schedule excursion dates along with the various available experiences -- good to see they've finally quit doing that), usually followed by a statement six months or so later that they need another x hundred thousand dollars to get 1309 running.  This is also a railroad that very recently (this past February -- just five months ago!) was shut down by the Feds because of its own lack of track maintenance (and yes, I know they were shut down during the pandemic and couldn't generate any revenue, but the problem didn't just happen -- this maintenance had been put off for years and literally tens of thousands of ties needed to be replaced so perhaps they should have focused on that critical detail instead of e.g. acquiring more rolling stock).  They were extremely fortunate that Allegheny County decided to bail them out (again) and take over all track maintenance expenses going forward (not much choice, really -- either that, or no trains could run and of course the railroad would go under which would very negatively impact the community).  It's not easy to run a heritage railroad -- you'd know better than most, including me -- and taking on a project like restoring 1309 is a monumental task.  However, I don't think anyone would dispute that WMSR's management and some of its decisions have been dubious (at best) for a long time now -- it's all been very publicly documented in great detail over the years. 

It's a great little railroad with a lot of history, and having 1309 running again would be amazing.  Don't get me wrong -- I very much want to see them succeed.  And while I would agree that things seem to be currently more optimistic than in previous years, unfortunately, a lot of people will "believe it when they see it" because of all of the previous false starts.

@BlueFeather posted:

Thanks for the info on the new director -- I'd missed that recent event.

With all due respect, the public has been told that "the locomotive has very little left to do on it" for years now (even going so far as to schedule excursion dates along with the various available experiences -- good to see they've finally quit doing that), usually followed by a statement six months or so later that they need another x hundred thousand dollars to get 1309 running.

This is nothing new in the tourist rail industry.  As a young boy I watched on as they removed K4s 1361 from the Horseshoe Curve, partially restored it, only to have it break and never be seen again (by the public) for 30+ years.  Restoration attempt after restoration attempt, they said "Oh we just need some more time and a little more money."  Then we hear (What a week ago?) that their is a new effort and it's better this time, and to please donate.  I'd rather see the results rather than hear about planned results.

This is also a railroad that very recently (this past February -- just five months ago!) was shut down by the Feds because of its own lack of track maintenance (and yes, I know they were shut down during the pandemic and couldn't generate any revenue, but the problem didn't just happen -- this maintenance had been put off for years and literally tens of thousands of ties needed to be replaced so perhaps they should have focused on that critical detail instead of e.g. acquiring more rolling stock).  They were extremely fortunate that Allegheny County decided to bail them out (again) and take over all track maintenance expenses going forward (not much choice, really -- either that, or no trains could run and of course the railroad would go under which would very negatively impact the community).

If the county is that reliant on the revenue generated by the attraction that the railroad provides, maybe the taxpayers should chip in some to help with maintenance like that.  I don't know much about how the WMSR is run, but I doubt if anyone is getting rich off that business.  However, if it provides jobs and a livelihood for many in the community, then maybe it should be considered a shared liability and funded appropriately (like roads, or sewer, etc.)

It's not easy to run a heritage railroad -- you'd know better than most, including me -- and taking on a project like restoring 1309 is a monumental task.  However, I don't think anyone would dispute that WMSR's management and some of its decisions have been dubious (at best) for a long time now -- it's all been very publicly documented in great detail over the years.

It's a great little railroad with a lot of history, and having 1309 running again would be amazing.  Don't get me wrong -- I very much want to see them succeed.  And while I would agree that things seem to be currently more optimistic than in previous years, unfortunately, a lot of people will "believe it when they see it" because of all of the previous false starts.

False starts seem to be par for course like I said above.  My guess is that there are just far to many in the tourist rail industry that think they know more than they do, and fail to appreciate all of the logistics involved in big projects.

@rplst8 posted:

If the county is that reliant on the revenue generated by the attraction that the railroad provides, maybe the taxpayers should chip in some to help with maintenance like that.  I don't know much about how the WMSR is run, but I doubt if anyone is getting rich off that business.  However, if it provides jobs and a livelihood for many in the community, then maybe it should be considered a shared liability and funded appropriately (like roads, or sewer, etc.)

I understand completely regarding the nature of WMSR's relationship to the county and state governments and their dependence on those entities for certain levels of funding.  And yes, Allegheny County MD is heavily reliant on tourism revenue and the jobs it creates.  Personally I don't think it's too much of an issue really, especially compared to the poor value for dollar our governments often get on some other spending (but that's another very off-topic discussion).

But something that can't be ignored is letting the track fall into massive disrepair for years and not doing anything about it.  Read the press coverage; it's clear that the parties involved knew about this for a long time and did nothing.  If you don't have a safe, well-maintained right-of-way, you don't have a railroad -- period.  Who cares if you have a fancy new dome car or the largest operating Mallet in the world if you don't have a place to run it?  What if they had had an accident caused by this disrepair?  The railroad could have been shut down, permanently.  Maybe it's too easy for me to armchair QB that one, but I don't understand how WMSR management could have kept kicking the can on something that fundamental.

Maintenance is pretty important, but I don't get the feeling they were ever rocketing up and down that line very fast. 

I feel like if this can exist, there isn't a whole lot to worry about.

@BlueFeather posted:

However, I don't think anyone would dispute that WMSR's management and some of its decisions have been dubious (at best) for a long time now -- it's all been very publicly documented in great detail over the years.

It's a great little railroad with a lot of history, and having 1309 running again would be amazing.  Don't get me wrong -- I very much want to see them succeed.  And while I would agree that things seem to be currently more optimistic than in previous years, unfortunately, a lot of people will "believe it when they see it" because of all of the previous false starts.

Absolutely agree. Given that all of those missteps were committed under prior leadership, I wouldn't anticipate the same mistakes being made again. Things have already started changing at a very deep level and the folks in charge now are especially cognizant of what went on before and the damage it imparted.