Building my Ceiling Layout (6.11.21 Update)

Great work Tom.  I had thought of having both scales up there in the ceiling for a while with the G on the outside loop and O on the inside loop, but my allotted clearance heights nixed that idea.

Speaking of clearance heights, I paid a visit this afternoon during my lunch break to Ready to Roll Trains to do measurements on the MTH Arch Bridge, and I'm happy to say that it will fit!  Can't tell y'all how happy I am at that result.  These pictures of the double track bridge hanging from the ceiling that Ready to Roll has is the exact viewpoint that I want to have when one looks up from the dining table and sees the underside of the train running overhead:

We measured the distance from the level surface to the top of the bridge arch at 8.125 inches, not including the bulb, so sitting on top of the 0.5-inch corkbed at my home layout, the will fit within the 8.5 inch space that I have.  As mentioned earlier in this thread, I plan on having the bridge span be 20+/- inches with the 5+/- inches on either end resting on top of the shelves for gravity support.  The bridge will be screwed into the cork so that it doesn't slide back and forth.  On those 5+/- inch ends, I will have the corkbed at only 0.25 inch so that the bridge is lowered a bit so that the tracks don't have to rise up to meet it and it can be a smooth ride, plus I get to put the light bulb back on top.   Right now I'm debating whether to get the bridge version with the white lights along the arches or not.  Haven't decided if I want the bridge to be Rust (like in my post yesterday, Silver (like in my photos today), or Black (like in my 2011 photo of the long closed Warrick Hobbies store below). 

I am enjoying this. 

[UPDATE 3.30.20]

So I didn't to do any model train work over the weekend.  Zero.

Therefore I told myself tonight that I was going to at least drill some holes and put up the brackets where the arch bridge is going to span.

Width of the column is 18 inches which is perfect to frame the 20-inch span that I will be using of the 30-inch bridge:

It's nothing much, but at least now I can look up from the dining table and actually see somewhat the underneath view that I'm l looking forward to see with the end product.  With brackets on two opposite walls now, it finally is beginning to resemble what my plan is.  Yes, I know the two tracks are closer than they will actually be on the shelf, but the bracket is only 8  inches wide.

Thought that one of the photos I took had the power tools on the step ladder and the drop cloth covering everything from the dust, but alas no.  I was required by the domestic CEO to clean up afterwards and put everything back in place

the domestic CEO to clean up afterwards and put everything back in place  

Don't push it... your lucky the D>CEO is allowing this in the first place'...

Quarter Gauger 48 posted:

the domestic CEO to clean up afterwards and put everything back in place  

Don't push it... your lucky the D>CEO is allowing this in the first place'...

Kevin, if it's not too late, definitely don't use #2 pine 1 x 12s. Take it from a guy who made his living as cabinetmaker for about 20 years. Aside from seasonal movement, which is across the width of the board, they will warp and twist. The wood at the big box stores is not dried for interior work- it is only air dried to about 10-12%. Cabinet grade wood should be kiln dried to 6-8%. This means as the wood acclimates to a house that is heated or air-conditioned, it will move unpredictably. I would splurge and buy 3/4" birch ply. It will be dimensionally stable. They can rip it for you on the panel saw at the store into 4 pieces about 12" x 8' long. If you have a friend with a biscuit joiner, that would be a simple way to join them end for end. 

As for the corners, the brackets will work where the curve starts if you put battens on the wall from there into the corner on both sides. Putting a longer bracket in the corner isn't really practical and will look worse than battens ( ledger strips) IMO. You need to secure the wood to the brackets and battens, and then you can float the roadbed and track.

I don't see why you would need safety rails, since these are all inside curves and the trains would derail toward the wall.

Kevin, The brackets and track show what you plan to do very well.  My wife doesn't have to worry about me leaving a mess.  She admits I am actually neater than her.    Growing up my brother called me a Neat-Nik  like a Beatnik.  He was the next thing to a slob.  It was interesting sharing a room with him!  

Will, you are another modeler who recommends birch.  I bought a number of birch 1x2s, and they do stay true!!

Mark Boyce posted:

Kevin, The brackets and track show what you plan to do very well.  My wife doesn't have to worry about me leaving a mess.  She admits I am actually neater than her.    Growing up my brother called me a Neat-Nik  like a Beatnik.  He was the next thing to a slob.  It was interesting sharing a room with him!  

Will, you are another modeler who recommends birch.  I bought a number of birch 1x2s, and they do stay true!!

Birch plywood, actually. Birch solid wood is a different animal. 

Kevin, glad to see you're back at it.

Plexi-glass?  Wow!  Can't be cheap, and that ceiling layout, with all that copper and tubing, is really famous.  Musta cost many thousands to build it throughout the house.  I doubt if you'll use it, but if you do, please give us all the intimate details.

Kevin and Will, I still recommend the solid 3/4 inch pine.  A great deal more cost-effective.  As I told you, I sanded and sealed each board three times.  It's been up there five years now without a budge.  The doweling helps and none of them are glued except those three in the yard.

Here is a close-up of the nice smooth edge you can achieve.  IMO, gluing an edge to plywood is gonna be a real hassle, especially in the corners.

Here is an example of three 8 X 8's glued, doweled, and clamped together for my small yard.  The ends are supported as shown.  There is only one small bracket holding up the middle.  I worried about this, but decided to give it a whirl.

Just took this pic today.  As you can see, no warp, no bending, perfectly straight after five years.

You won't see the top side, just the bottom.

The bridge looks great.  At 8 1/2 inches, you have an inch more than I do up there.  Should be plenty.

Your pics of testing the double-track for the proper spacing, reminded me of this.  That Army engine has a wide butt!

I hope this helps.  Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress.

Jerry

[UPDATE 6.21.20]

First update in a while.

So planned on finally putting up the shelves yesterday.  Only problem is that no retailers had any Dowel Jig Kits so I had to purchase one and wait for a delivery.

Painted the shelves (only on the sides that will be facing the floor) and put them and the bridge up anyway so that I could finally see what it would like after staring at brackets for months.  Couple issues need to be resolved with alignments and bracket placings but nothing devastating.

Here is a photo of the top of the MTH bridge clearance from the ceiling (resting only on the brackets)

And then with the bridge resting on the 0.75-inch boards.  I took these this morning.

Bridge and bulb got scuffed off top placing the bridge there so I will be removing the bulb. The bridge will definitely not be resting on the cork board but directly onto the boards.

The Ceiling Route is looking great, Kevin!

 So good to see PROGRESS!!! on the ceiling route... It is looking very good.  Just the right amount of space for the bridge.  It gives a realistic look.  You did a nice job aligning everything'.. And that is not easily  accomplished.... 👍📐📏👌😄

Nicely integrated. It looks like it belongs in that room. Nice L-1011 cutaway.

Looks good Kevin.
I would recommend putting a clear sealer or polyurethane on the tops though. It's gonna get dusty and bare wood hold onto it quite well. Much easier to dust a slippery surface.

Thanks Mark & Ted.  The bridge is the centerpiece of the whole idea and I like the way everything works together.

Mike – I had to get the layout done this way so that the domestic CEO would approve.  Make it blend in and not to conspicuous other than the moving trains.  Thanks on the L-1011. I see by your profile that you’re into aviation so you spotted the cutaway real quick. I’m into both trains and planes.  Not to stray too far from model railroading, but I loved the variety of airliner types growing up in the 1970s.  Due to technological limitations, etc. at the time, there were multiple designs with different numbers of engines.  The 3-holers (727, L-1011, DC-10 and so forth) were my favorites. Nowadays, advancements in technology require only 2 engines and the planes all look the same and boring, whether the plane be large or small.  Back to model railroading now…

Robert – My plan is to lay 0.5-inch cork on top of the wood shelves as sound cushion, so the wood won’t be exposed bare, except at the two points where the bridge is attached.  That being said, dusting up there will be a regular occurrence.

[UPDATE 12.9.20]

Amazingly, it's been 6 months later... and no real progress to show for it.  Thanks to Quarter Gauger 48 for asking me about this layout in another thread so I need to make some progress.

Didn't seem that long, but it was.  Have shared the "ground space" with the Halloween and now Christmas layouts the past few months, which is hampering my access to certain points.  That being said, have bought all of my tracks, corkbeds, etc and am ready to go.  Also lucked out and was able to procure two of the new MTH DCS remotes from Ready to Roll Trains in Miami. I need to finish this darn thing that I've been talking about since we moved here in August... of 2019. 

Here are some photos that I took today for an "update"

I love a functional bridge! Can't wait to see the next update!

Kevin, it took me two years to finish my ceiling railroad.  I was stopped because carpal tunnel reared it's head again 20 years after surgery.  I was told scar tissue caused it the second time.  I went through surgery a second time on each hand and PT.  That consumed about a year itself.

Kevin  I’m glad to see you back on your project. The bridges fit better with the bulbs removed. I like you safety awareness with the installed bumpers for your testing demonstration. At least I hope that is for demo purposes and not the end of the build!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Kevin, it took me two years to finish my ceiling railroad.  I was stopped because carpal tunnel reared it's head again 20 years after surgery.  I was told scar tissue caused it the second time.  I went through surgery a second time on each hand and PT.  That consumed about a year itself.

Thanks for mentioning your experiences Mark. I've read from afar your experiences all your surgical issues.

The point that is nagging me, however, is that when we signed the lease 2 years ago, my intention was to have the layout up and enjoy it for at least a year plus until we moved once our youngest went off to college in Fall 2021.  Yes, the landlord gave the approval as long as everything was returned to its original condition afterwards. That time is running out so the layout must be running by January.  Also, the ceiling layout was determined to be the best solution for me to at least have a layout at home for the time being.  Personally I'm tired of having to share my hobby area as part of other rooms in the house - yes, I know, First World Problems - and I want to have a room all to myself that I don't have to worry about train noise pollution, etc. around other parts of the house.  Hopefully that will be taken care of the next time around.

Wow, Kevin!  I didn’t know you aren’t going to be living in this home very long!  I can sympathize with your frustration. My Ceiling Central RR began as yours.  We had no room for a layout.  My wife suggested I build it in a small family room that had other uses.  After our girls married and moved out, I gained an 11x11 room and my wife gained a sewing room.  I hope you can gain a train room in your new home!

Me too Mark, I hope so. Most people cannot have a room dedicated to their hobby pursuits, but if I'm able to get a Man Cave, I would be very pleased.

Looks really great Kevin!!    When do you think the golden spike will be driven?

Patrick, that is the $64,000 question 🤣

@Amfleet25124 posted:

Me too Mark, I hope so. Most people cannot have a room dedicated to their hobby pursuits, but if I'm able to get a Man Cave, I would be very pleased.

Ah, the  beauty of living in south Florida - great weather, low taxes, and no basements for our train layouts.  My youngest is moving out as well in January. You know what that means? His room can now host another train layout. In Florida, empty  nests leave more space for trains.  Good luck on getting that room for your man cave, Amfleet.

[UPDATE 2.18.21]

Here we go with an update... finally.

First off the bat, we've decided that we're going to renew our lease and live in this house for another year, so the Summer 2021 deadline no longer exists.  Still need to keep the foot on the gas pedal.

They say that you learn things building layouts, and I can say that I know for any future ceiling layout, I will build the tracks on the wood FIRST (like JerryG did) instead of doing what I'm doing know.  It is no fun and a pain in the rear to be laying track, wiring, etc. while standing on a ladder and seeing everything a ground level.  Before everything is screwed in, I'm going to have to make sure that the tracks are separated the correct distance all the way around (hard to see at this angle) and that track runs that seem that they are dead straight (they're not) are not kinked.

Took these photos over the past two days.  Cut and laid down the cork two weekends ago and then this week is to put up the track.

Kevin, it looks pretty good to me'.. Most ceiling layouts have only one line. you have two.  A train in each direction is very cool... Just keep going. it don't have to be perfect... The key is for you to enjoy and have some fun'... The NMRA is not going to show up and inspect your work'...(LOL)😁

Looks great Kevin!

Here is the current track plan.  The tracks in red indicate where the power feeds are going to be and the tracks in blue indicate the bridge.  All the track power will originate from the upper left hand corner of the image where my desk is and I'll run the wires up the corner of the two walls hidden away from view by a length of white PVC pipe with one side cut off to resemble a skateboarding half pipe.

That’s a great way to run the wires!

My current layout is a ceiling layout in my 10' X 14' bedroom. I have just a single O36 Fastrack loop powered by a 180W Powerhouse/Legacy Powermaster combo. I use the Legacy Control System for control. I either run one or the other (or both simultaneously in a lash-up) Legacy diesels or my older Conventional steam loco. The track is wired with a pair of 14 gauge bus wires (power and ground) and is screwed into the plywood shelf. Eventually (maybe in a few years), I'd like to build a new layout with Legacy Command-Control, switches, and accessories.

[UPDATE 2.20.21]

So, I finished placing all the track this afternoon. Finally! No tracks are screwed into the cork yet.  Felt a sense of relief that I was getting somewhere, although there were many times when having to reach up from the ladder and connecting track with my eyes at ground dirt level 😊 it was very frustrating and led to wish that I had chosen FasTrack with its plug and play capabilities instead of fighting with the Atlas rail joiners.  (This fact was later confirmed when I would be just rolling the 4 Tri-Rail Bombardier coaches back on forth with my hand on how LOUD it was.  Loud is all the same loud to my wife and if I knew it was going to be this loud, I would have gone with FasTrack, but I digress…)

Still some hard work to be done, going round the loop to try to determine kinks and make sure the track separations from wall, each other and edge of death are all consistent, and place a few screws around the track to keep it that way.

I plan on running 2 sets of separate wires (one for each track) to each of the 4 power drop points which I estimate will be over 150 feet in wire in total.

Around the edge of the wall, I’m going to install remote control LED lighting strips (https://lightstrips.co/products/led-light-strips) to illuminate the ceiling area.  Those lanterns being used in construction are nice, but no fun when I have to go up the ladder to turn them off when it’s bedtime.

But that will take time.  After taking over a year and half to get to this stage I wanted to see something run tonight!  Even if with only temporary wiring.  So, I attached one corner of the O-72 outside track to a MTH DCS Remote Commander just to see my Tri-Rail consist run until the inevitable power loss made it stop.  Then I would just run it back and forth between whatever those two dead spot areas would be.

Here are some photos.  You’ll notice that the GP40 is not illuminated which is another problem that I will ask on the MTH Technical Forum

Wow Kevin, those are some very good looking cars'..!!!  Nice to see them up and running'... Nice work'..  I know it wasn't easy'... Therefor Congrats are in order'....🍸🍺👍☑😃

Some years ago when my eyes were still good I was in a N scale club.   With a small room staging tracks used up too much space so I built a vertical yard to store the trains, operation was manual but serviceable.   Now days my big trains run on the floor and soon to be outside this summer.    The problem is my knees are old and my grandkids are not always available to help, plus I might want to invite some other oldies over for a session.   None of us like getting down to put trains on the track so I've been thinking of a different version of the vertical staging yard.   A workbench with maybe a 6 ft section where locomotives (and cars) can be set on the track, then lowered to the floor level track module,    the same idea could work for getting heavy units to a ceiling level track.   I might even build two,..  one for the garage and another for an upstairs ceiling layout that my wife suggested (to get my trains off the floor),.     Hmmm,   if I modified my display shelves then equipment could be easily moved to the elevator track.   Some sort of safety side rails would be necessary,..   a locking alignment mechanism,..   gearhead motor,..  (actually still have one from an old telco CO switch),

This is what happens when an idea starts cooking,...   might have to lubricate the brain cells with a bit of red wine,.

Thanks to Scouting Dad on another thread, I got my locomotive to recognize the DCS Remote Commander IR and I am pleased finally watching a train run on my layout, albeit with temporary wiring. The loco had no issues at all running the 40 feet of the O-72 loop with no drop off in power despite only using a single power feed to the track. Still plan on doing 4 sets of power drops, but this now brings up another fun decision after my test runs this evening.

With the well known limitations of the IR receivers, the "skillful" aiming of the remote is put to a challenge when one is looking up at the ceiling as compared to down on a table.  The operating of a ceiling train basically locks your eyes and brain on the train more so than on a table layout and there are some blind spots when one is looking up. Some nervous times – even with only one train running – when the IR receiver is behind you. It thus looks like I may be using the MTH power set up on only one of the loops (the outer O-72 Track) and run LionChief locos on both tracks.  So instead of having the IR receiver on the opposite corner controlling the inner O-63 Track, I'm going to have to have both IR receivers control the same track from different vantage points.  For extra peace of mind I was thinking of placing IR receivers in all 4 corners of the room and having the two receivers on each side controlled by the same Z1000 brick if possible, but that will most likely be 4 Brick/IR combos, one in each corner

Here are 3 short videos that I took this evening.  I will eventually edit all of the videos that I took tonight and place them on my YouTube channel.  Note that everything is still in the construction stage. I have to spackle all those drill holes that I made in the walls, for example. I had fun filming while standing on top of a ladder and spinning around as close to 359 degrees (yes, 359 degrees ) as possible.   

Great Videos!  That passenger set is Awesome!  Nice work!

Great work.  I really like the bridge that spans the door.  Also, the last video is an interesting perspective shot.  Where did you get that passenger set?  Very unique.

Thank you Dennis.

LPTC, actually the bridge doesn’t span a door. It was a purpose built gap in the shelves along the wall so that I could use a bridge. A bridge was a mandatory feature for me, and it is set up as the centerpiece of the entire affair.

The set is the MTH Premier Tri-Rail set (loco sold separately), which I purchased from Ready to Roll Trains in Miami. You can see some other clips of it on my YouTube channel.

  Wow, Kevin, that is so cool, especially the night shots'.. That is a beautiful set of trains'.  I love it'.. Very nice work'.. I bet you're happy with the results.  How does the family and the DCFO like it'...

@Quarter Gauger 48 posted:

  Wow, Kevin, that is so cool, especially the night shots'.. That is a beautiful set of trains'.  I love it'.. Very nice work'.. I bet you're happy with the results.  How does the family and the DCFO like it'...

Ted, the DCFO likes it... especially when the locomotive sounds are off .  She is happy for me and especially happy that I'm finally running a train up there so that she stop hear me complaining about it for a year and a half .

I was just running it now overhead during my lunch.  A relaxing and smooth visual for me on this manic Monday working remotely from the office.

😃👍 We are all in the same boat'... when it comes to complaining'.. (LOL) My DCFO is sick of it.   The weather up here as put a hold on many projects.... ANd I've been complaing a lot...... 👺

A great way too spend your lunch hour'...😁