Conventional Trains on a Command Layout

That is what PowerMasters are for in a TMCC/Legacy setup. They connect to a block or more of track and vary it's voltage via CAB inputs for the conventional train.

Before Powermasters there were TPC's, connected to an early TMCC module,  same function, a silver box. 

Ogauge - the powermaster has a slide switch that allows you to toggle between command control and conventional control. In conventional control the track power starts off at zero. You rotate the red knob on your cab control to control the amount of voltage sent to the track for you conventional locomotive. Unless I am mistaken please note that any locomotive you have on the block controlled by your powermaster will respond to the voltage input. What I am not sure about is whether any command control loco will start moving also.
Joe

I think we need more info.  A layout "wired for command control" may not have any PowerMasters, so we need to know if there are any.  Also, DCS was mentioned so if the layout has a TIU then conventional trains can be controlled through that.  Bit more info, please.

Joe - Based on my own experience a TMCC equipped engine will not start moving when the layout is switched to conventional mode (even if it senses the layout is wired for command control) as it only responds if it's engine ID is inputted.

I have both Legacy/TMCC and DCS.  The layout has 4 power districts powered by 2 Z4000s.  I have couple of conventional locomotives.  I remove, or park the command stuff in a block siding, in one of the power districts and run the convention using the throttle handle.

@CAPPilot My question is more of a hypothetical scenario. I'm planning a command-controlled layout right now, but I was wondering what materials I would need to operate my conventional items. Thanks for the reply.

No special material needed at all for dcs.  Just use the variable in and variable out from the tiu to the track.  Select the track and scroll the voltage up and down.    I have only done this with the dcs remote, but I am sure it functions similarly from the dcs app.

You can also add one or more Legacy PowerMasters if you either don't want to use the TIU variable channels, or are not running DCS.  The advantage of the Legacy PowerMaster is much finer speed steps for better control of the conventional locomotives.

Hi @Danr....

Question....how do you vary the voltage in your four Power Districts when running Conventional engines. Do you have to move/manage all 4 handles on the 2 Z4000s? I ask because you used singular "handle" in your response....not plural "handles".

Or is there some creative wiring going on for your layout?

@Junior posted:

Hi @Danr....

Question....how do you vary the voltage in your four Power Districts when running Conventional engines. Do you have to move/manage all 4 handles on the 2 Z4000s? I ask because you used singular "handle" in your response....not plural "handles".

Or is there some creative wiring going on for your layout?

I have 2 loops and two yards, each is power from one of the throttles on the Z4000.  Typically I would run a conventional locomotive on one of the two loops.  So I just move the throttle for that loop; everything else stays at 16-18v for the command equipment.

There is zero creative wiring.  Each of the Z4000 output goes to one of the TIU channels.  The Legacy lead goes to the common output on the “to track” side of the TIU.

Thanks @Danr. Sounds great and very straightforward.

@Danr posted:

I have both Legacy/TMCC and DCS.  The layout has 4 power districts powered by 2 Z4000s.  I have couple of conventional locomotives.  I remove, or park the command stuff in a block siding, in one of the power districts and run the convention using the throttle handle.

That is what I always did so was not sure if they would start up with the conventional locomotive is left on the powered track.

Note that the variable TIU channels may not handle the input power varying as well as the fixed TIU channels.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Note that the variable TIU channels may not handle the input power varying as well as the fixed TIU channels.

I had not consider the difference of the circuits of the fixed and variable channels.  99% of what I run is command and all TIU channels are set to fixed.  When I do run conventional it would be on the loops and, I believe, they are connected to the two TIU fixed channels - but I’ll check tomorrow.

Thanks for the insight John.

@Joe Fauty posted:

Ogauge - the powermaster has a slide switch that allows you to toggle between command control and conventional control. In conventional control the track power starts off at zero. You rotate the red knob on your cab control to control the amount of voltage sent to the track for you conventional locomotive. Unless I am mistaken please note that any locomotive you have on the block controlled by your powermaster will respond to the voltage input. What I am not sure about is whether any command control loco will start moving also.
Joe

If the TMCC radio frequency is available, from an original command base, the unit/loco should remain in the last mode it was operated.  With TPC control you could set maximum track voltage, which worked well, keeping the train speeds down, when the handheld control was in small hands.

I’ve used.a TMCC CAB 1 and Powermaster for both conventional and command operation:  even in conventional mode, the TMCC equipped locomotives run fine without the need for the command base.  I should note that a majority of my locomotives are conventional anyway and I like the speed steps available using the CAB 1… it keeps the lower end, start up type locomotives from taking off like jackrabbits, something that happens with the newer transformers.