DCS with your iPhone

Lol. Coincidentally, the R & D was paid for already by a rich guy out west that wanted this for his 3600 square foot layout. It's all built already for the iPad. They are just offering to resell it. And dumming it down for the smart phone. 

No problem. There will be just one train on that loop of track. 

Frankly I hate using a phone or iPad in a train room, contrary to a throttle you have to look at it to slide your finger at the right place, and speaking of sliding is often a hit and miss.

 

If MTH wants to do the thing right, and if they want more peoples use their accessory unit ( AIU)  they have to give an interface  to programmers like RR&co, JMRI and others to send a signal to change the switch ( turnout) from the PC to the TIU. So we can have a dispatcher console that work with AIU and still keep the possibility to throw a switch with the throttle. 

So is a NEW TUI required to use this?   The rumor of a new TIU with WI-FI?

 

Barry, at various times you have dropped hints that there is a new DCS handheld remote design in the works, to replace the existing remote, probably eliminating the thumbwheel. Do you know if the new remote is still in the pipeline, or if this iphone development is superseding the development of the new remote?

 

To ask it differently, is the iphone interface the new remote, or is there also a new DCS remote still in development?

DCS is not exclusive to O gauge. MTH will be making more and more HO products in the future. They will also have upgrades for DCC ready locos. Typically HO modelers do more than run trains in loops. They also like to do operating sessions. I can see many reasons to like this new feature. But I'm 38, work in technology, and I own O, S, HO, and N scale trains.

I can see several potential advantages for this:

1.  my brother comes over, I can hand him my iPad or he can use his own iPhone to operate trains without having to buy a second remote.  IE: money saving

2.  If the app is nice enough to not require the DCS remote, I can get into DCS for the cost of a TIU and the app.  IE: money saving

3.  I can give my iPhone or iPad to someone else to run trains and it will be much more intitutive to younger users like myself.  IE: get more people involved.

4.  there is talks of an iPhone Legacy remote app - I can use one remote to control all trains by just switching apps (yes you can do this with DCS but without all legacy features, perhaps the phone app from Lionel will allow legacy feature control)

5.  related to all above, i can hand my phone or iPad to someone and they can control both types of trains by picking the right remote app.  again getting more people involved in running trains with me while saving money.

 

If a device I already own and use every day can also be used for a hobby I enjoy everyday, then what is there to complain about.  I have been crossing my fingers that the iPhone would become a second remote so more people could join me without spending the money on a second remote.  Not enough people to join for the cost, but app option could be worth it.

 

I can't fathom why people would bash this idea up and down, the grumpiness of this hobby is out-rageous sometimes.

I really like the idea for when guests come over as I only own 1 remote because the limited use of a second (or third) doesn't come close to justifying the cost for me.   This way those few times a year when visitors are over I can use the phone to let each control a train while I keep my hands on the remote for master control over everything.

 

--Greg

Frankly I hate using a phone or iPad in a train room, contrary to a throttle you have to look at it to slide your finger at the right place, and speaking of sliding is often a hit and miss.

So wouldn't it be great if you could talk to the trains and switches through your smart phone and give voice commands while watching the action.

A couple of things... The iPhone app is not a replacement for the remote and MTH is planning for new DCS hardware (remote ànd

Continuing on... (and TIU) for about 18-24 months away.

Year:  1983

Cost:  $4k

Functions:  Makes Phone Calls, holds down paper

 

 

Year:  2012

Cost:  $160

Functions:  Runs toy trains, holds down paper

 

Year:  20??

Cost:  N/A - You & billions of others already have one

Function:  Makes Phone Calls, Run Toy Trains, AND Calculates Tips

 

 

Good companies are always on the lookout for opportunities to reach new markets.  Lots of people like to do stuff with their phones.  Billions have them. 

 

Here's two scenarios:

 

(1)  Thanksgiving weekend, Good Morning America, Train Co. XYZ CEO is showing off a cool setup, using a neat remote.  Dad thinks it's cool, thinks he &/or his kid would have fun with it, checks the internet, sees remote "system" is $350 (not including train set).  Any takers?  Anyone?  Hello?  Anyone? 

 

 

(2)  Thanksgiving weekend, Good Morning America, Train Co. XYZ CEO is showing off a cool setup.  The host of the show is running multiple trains with their own cell phone with an app they downloaded for $.99 five minutes before the segment.  Think Train Co. XYZ might be able to sell a few more train sets with this capability?   

 

 

 

To coots like me who've been in the hobby for the better half of a century, a lot of this technology was merely a dream when we ran our trains with the dinosaurs. 

 

It seems like the dream has been evolving into a nightmare, where the pro-technology folks can't seem to live without having an "app" for something.

 

I've seen this all before.  First there was the tethered remote that folks couldn't live without, then the tethered remote that could be unplugged without the train stopping, next the wireless remote.  Here again, folks couldn't understand how someone could still be happy sitting "tied" to one spot with a transformer or power pack.

 

All these improvements in technology made folks "happy" until the next best thing came along. It's why people camp out in line overnight in the rain waiting for the Apple store to open.

 

Now it's apps, next it'll probably with voice recognition, then eye movements, then telepathy.  However, they'll still be running trains around in an over-glorified circle.

 

People like to say this will help get kids interested in the hobby.  Maybe to some extent it will, but I suspect few lifelong hobbyists will be the result.  Instead, model railroading will just be another app cluttering up the phone resources.

 

I suspect the generation that grew up in this technology driven world won't be attracted to running a train in a circle any more with an i-Phone than with a standard throttle.  A model train is far less interactive than Angry Birds.

 

Strange as it may seem to some folks, there was life before the i-Whatevers crept into the fiber of society.

 

I've said it before, the technology has become more important than the trains.  Model railroading used to be a refuge from a hectic world and driven by imagination, not the latest in electronic wizardry.

 

Rusty

I've said it before, the technology has become more important than the trains.  Model railroading used to be a refuge from a hectic world and driven by imagination, not the latest in electronic wizardry.

 

What's neat is WE all have the ability to choose what we want the hobby to be for each of us personally... & we still have all the same choices that existed 50 years ago (plus many more of course).  The technology doesn't have to be more important than the trains for YOU.  Model Railroading can still be a refuge driven by imagination, with no electronic wizardry for YOU.  If OTHERs choose to play with the latest whiz bang gadgets, I'm not sure why that would create a problem for you?  It's not a net sum game... additing a smart phone app for person X doesn't mean we have to take away person Y's Marx wind up.

 

I think when people say it's a bad idea... they just need to be clear it's a bad idea for them personally.  Surely most recognize the potential upside for a certain segment of the hobby (the tech fans), as well as for the the companies (Lionel, MTH, etc.)?  

 

 

WHY?  Why spend 10 of thousands of buck for a new remote when I can you my tablet or phone to run the trains.  Seems software is cheaper to develop than hardware.

I think it's only a matter of time. 

And I choose to be unimpressed by certain technologies.

 

Rusty

One thing you missed.

For DCS You will still need a TIU. Those are $180 or so on the market.

Still, might sell more than otherwise.

For XYZ Co. no telling what you will need, but I suspect you will need the command base, otherwise the trains wake up conventional.

 

I really see this as more for Extra remotes than to replace the primary remote.

I suspect you won't be adding a new engine or other such seldom used menu items with this app.

I had the opportunity to try out a DCS system using an I pad on a very large layout this past summer. The extra features and different ways that you can run trains is great.

Lots of different options and set ups that could be used. Have different trains that are running open on the same window.

 

Looking forward to having this feature when it is released will be great.

 

Last night was running trains with a visitor. Had 2 DCS remotes and a TMCC remote in use. We had lots of trains running when a coupler came open in the midst of a freight train and left a string of cars in the path of on coming row of train sets. Took some time to sort through the in session trains to get to the right ones to stop them so they did not crash into each other!

 

The I pad could be set up so easier to sort through the operating trains to get to the right one or have several open in a window that at the touch could control rather then in the TMCC or DCS remotes having to switch to scroll or recall the # for  a different engine window to stop a train. 

Thanks Barry.

 

Looking forward to this. I have had the pleasure of running H0 trains with my Iphone trough JMRI and loconet. And is great. A full throttle either DCS or Legacy is of course

essential at times but the posibility of another throttle by just adding a iphone/ipad/ipod or android device when guests arrive, well just great.

I think I'll stick with the DCS remote.  I can navigate it easier with the feel of it.  The Ipad App will make a great layout tool though.

I hadn't heard about the app until Andy mentioned it at the grandstand gathering.

 

Thinking about it, a couple of things struck me:

 

1) (it seems that) you still would have to load all of you layout's information into your phone app somehow, right?

 

2) If #1 is true, then you still couldn't let a friend use his phone to run your layout, right?

 

3) Again, if #1 is true, it would GREAT if the app someone let the visitor download your DCS layout structures into his app on his iPhone.

 

4) Again, if #1 is true, if you used a remote (and I agree with MartyE even though I haven't seen the app, which means I could change my mind) wouldn't it be GREAT if there was a was to download the remote's DCS entries into the iPhone?

 

5) Again, if #1 is true, one HUGE benefit to me, would be the ability to TYPE in the various DCS entries (engines, switch names, accessory names, etc) into the iPhone versus scrolling on the remote using the thumbwheel.

 

But I think Andy was 100% spot on when he said that the only way that the hobby is going to attract new participants is to incorporate the technology that kids like and use.  I found it refreshing when Andy said something like "Both MTH and Lionel agree.....".

 

- walt

I maybe mistaken but it sounded like you had to send your layout information to them to create a template for your specific situation.  Maybe I misheard Dave when explaining it to another customer.

 

It also sounded like the App can access the information from the layout computer so each smartphone or tablet can access this info.  AT least that is the way it worked at the show.

 

The thing I noticed about using this APP to run trains is I was actually watching the iPad more than I was the trains because you have to see where the controls are unlike my DCS remote where I have a feel for that.  I do like the layout integration of it though.  Very cool stuff coming out. 

 

Unfortunately I don't see this for either manufacturer attracting too many young people to trains, just not enough going on to say WOW.

The one constant in life is change and even though I am now 66 I embrace all the new technology. I watched all 3 technology's from MTH, Lionel and the train station. Not sure which one is better but I was really impressed by Lionel's Jon Zornancki (  Sorry Jon for messing up your last name) but I really liked it. But i will look at each one to see which one suits me. The one requirement for me is that it has to run on my Ipad and I don't need a PC in my train room to make it work other then that, I'm in.

Amen!  I think that however someone wants to enjoy the hobby is fine.  I'll use what I like and not use what I don't.  I don't need anyone telling me that my way of enjoying it is "the right way" to be happy.

I just asked my 18 year old college student daughter to read this thread. (I'm visiting her for homecoming).    I wanted to get her opinion on the new apps being discussed.

 

She likes trains and has helped me build and run several layouts since she was about 6.

 

She thinks the app are very cool.   She also mentioned that we must all be the life of the party given how cranky and set in our ways we appear to be

 

 

As previously stated by me, I always say for me personally I prefer the remotes to run trains.  However I welcome technology and am definitely interested to see how it enhances my layout experiences.  It looks like an exciting time to be in O Gauge!

I had pretty much the same views about the latest technologies and attitude when I was 18.  Of course, there was only one phone company back then and computers were huge devices that ran on Hollerith cards.

 

Ask her again when she's 60...

 

Rusty

Well if she's like me, she'll still be into the latest tech geek stuff.   I'm 50, and can't wait to see what's coming next.   I spend a lot of time reinventing the wheel; not because it's necessary, but because it's fun, to me.   I got the bug from my dad, who just turned 75. We were always doing Heathkit projects together, and redoing them as we went along to adapt them to our likes.   We like all tech: old school, and new-fangled

 

My attitude is that when it comes to hobbies, toys, and other fun pursuits, there doesn't need to be a practical application for something.

 

I built Heathkits back in the day and have done some manner of service and repair of computer equipment, mechanical equipment, industrial electronics and proprietary embedded software for most of my adult life.  I spend 40 hours a week working to convince electrons to go where we want them to, not where they feel like going.

 

Suffice it to say that we do not know the ramifications of the way the current technologies will effect today's generations as they age, but I've already observed firsthand on how people can't leave their i-Phones and Androids alone for a moment to concentrate on the task at hand.

 

Today's technology is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's nice to get away from it for a while.

 

Rusty

My brother and I have Samsung Galaxies.

 

Well why wait until 2013, there were a couple of guys in the Orange hall that already had an iPhone app available for DCS and TMCC.

 

Gandy

there were a couple of guys in the Orange hall that already had an iPhone app available for DCS and TMCC.

TMCC, for sure. DCS? I don't think so.

There were people in every hall using their smart phones for various reasons. I did not see a single one of them get into any kind of trouble for doing so.

 

Lionel will also be coming out with an app. to run your TMCC or Legacy with either an iphone or an ipad.

 

The reasons for both companies doing this is to attract more of the younger generation who are more into that kind of stuff than us older folks are.

I doubt you'll use an iPhone for Lionel's app.  The app IMO just doesn't make sense on it.  It's not really conducive for an iPhone.

 

And in reality, I doubt either company will really see any bumps in the younger user.  In the end even with the apps you either like trains or not and no App in the world will help that.

Finally, someone else makes the same observation.

 

And, running trains isn't as interactive as Angry Birds...

 

Rusty

I can't say if it will really attract the younger crowd into the hobby or not but I was just repeating the reason given by MTH at the OGR grandstand meeting.

I believe most of you are missing the most important point of Dave Hikel’s announcement of controlling MTH locos with phones and iPads: MTH supports a third party sending commands to the TIU via a computer and controlling trains.  Several times over the years, there have been threads about controlling a TIU with a PC, and almost immediately, the topic goes “off the rails” talking about copyright and patent infringement.  That is no longer an issue.

The more interesting features that Dave talked about, are when he customizes his software for your layout, and you get collision avoidance, and automatic routing of your trains.

I have wanted something like this to automate running a train through a switchback while using DCS.  Using block detection, your PC can send the command to throw a turnout, and reverse a specific engine when it enters the switchback using Dave’s software to command the TIU.

I don’t really see this as using your iPad to control your trains instead of the DCS remote.  I see this as a chance to add more automation to your layout.  In a couple more years, I expect it will get more polished, and user friendly.

 

-Eric

The more we talked to the people with the app the more we realized they didn't know the difference between TMCC and Legacy. He has made a nice TMCC app, not a legacy app

 

do not recall any info about it and DCS