DCS with your iPhone

I disagree. First off, Angry Birds isn't all that interactive.

In the future I can see an app that has control over the trains and interactive accessories.  For years I have been asking for engines that "degrade performance, sound, and increase smoke over time" only to pull into a backshop, water tower, coal tower, etc... that talks to the engine and resets the "counter". Think of how much interest could be added by having to plan water stops, service time, etc... These apps aren't just throttles. They will ultimately give the ability to control the entire layout. Things like automation, lighting, background sounds, etc... could easily be added. What about virtual car forwarding?

And I can't believe nobody has thought of the obvious- Once these apps are in place you could easily connect them to the micro cams that folks like to mount on their trains. Instant uploads of photos and video to Facebook and Youtube. Or place cams around the layout and let friends log in and see your progress or what you're running that day.

Lots of nearsightedness here for an online forum discussing electronic computerized toy trains.

I stick by my statement. I think it's cool and I think folks will enjoy the added fun it delivers but I don't see it as a draw.

I'm not trying to dispute your statement, since I really didn't spend time talking with them, but here's another possible angle.

It's possible they know and are just playing it like they don't.  Their product will obviously draw more attention than it would if they said in big bold letters that it was only for TMCC.  Most people would probably walk right by.  Now since they indicate it also does Legacy, people are interested.  Of course the rub is what you indicate, it will control Legacy trains, but only with TMCC functionality(same way DCS does Legacy).  So they do control Legacy Trains, just not all Legacy functions.

I think they might be counting more on a lot of casual users not seeing that distinction.(not folks who are well enough versed (and even beta testers!)to immediately realize the difference)

-Dave

I think this is great news.  I would love to have the option of running the layout via the touch screen on my ipad, if I choose.  Some days I will just use the DCS handheld, and somedays I'll run my PW via the handles of my trusty old ZW's.  This represents just another choice for me to play with the trains.  

As for doability and L and MTH working together.  I am not naive enough to think either of them will wake up and work together on this.  But it seems like we could have a 3rd party develop the basic interface and you could then just obtain a Lionel module, or an MTH module that all integrated seamlessly. 

That said, as neat as this might all be, it is not worth it to me if they end up putting some crazy price on it, which I am guessing they will.  I hope they market this technology as a means to attract additional train sales and some new customers as opposed to just another product to make some short term sales.

I know it is comparing apples to oranges but I think one of the things that help make the IPad/IPhone products so attractive are the low cost or free apps that make it fun to use.

The same could be true of the products that L or MTH make, low cost software making their products more fun to use resulting in increased sales.

Ed

Eric,

I don't think it's that simple.  My hunch is that MTH will allow ONE third party to know the commands - Dave Hikel.  Although that's a start, the real breakthrough will happen when there is a wifi connection to the TIU and the DCS system, AND interested developers will be provided the command code and structure so that they can develop a variety of software solutions, on iPhone, iPad, Android, and PC.  MTH may want to require confidentiality agreements (makes sense to me), but should offer the opportunity to develop software to multiple developers.

I happen to be one of the guys who don't want to run trains with computers, but would really the opportunity (as a developer) to work on the layout control side of the software.  I envision a PC controlled layout where blocks are switched on and off and turnouts are controlled via PC, allowing a realtime on-screen display of which tracks are powered and how turnouts are positioned - much like the screens in real train dispatch locations.

Just my $.02,

Ed

It is surprising to see all of the negativity toward this new feature! I really do not think that it is meant to replace the DCS remote but rather enhance the DCS PS2/3 software.  I really think that many of you are not seeing it for what it really is, but rather approaching it as the next fandangled invention that is a waste of time.  Being one of the younger modelers (22) on this board I think I will try to see how it could help me.

1. I have a lot of friends that want to run my trains so I have to hand over my DCS throttle and just watch.  Now I can hand one friend my iPad and another my iPhone and my cousin who already has an iphone and I can still have my remote and we can all run trains together! Without the need to buy 3 more throttles!

2. Eventually this app will be expanded to the Mac OSX platform and I will be able to run it through my computer. Something that DCC already has with JMRI and was a feature that I used heavily in HO scale.  Instead of building complex switch boards for the dispatcher I will be able to build straight line diagrams in my computer and my dispatcher will be able to route trains from the computer screen, which is how it's actually done in the real world today. So there ya go, it's prototypical!

3. The IOS based software was built by the best engineers in the world! The iFamily of products literally might be the most user friendly pool of products in the world.  The fact that my 5 year old cousin already knows his way around an iPhone and iPad with the confidence of many others is incredible! Even my niece who just turned one can take an iPhone and know to push the home button to turn it on and slide her finger sideways to unlock it just proves further that these were built with simplicity in mind! We will be able to connect to the younger kids easier and actually show them how to run the trains! You will still be able to set your speed limits and keep them under control! 

I really think that this will enhance model RRing and I am excited to see how it will be developed!

To those of you who think you will be able to run your trains from anywhere in the world

I think you misunderstood how exactly it is going to work. Basically the TIU will have a plug-in that will be able to communicate with your home's wireless router. Your iProduct is also able to communicate with your wireless router as long as you are in the range of its' wireless signal. Unfortunately, once you are out of range you can no longer communicate with the TIU.  This can be overcome and you could potentially run your trains from the office but it becomes a little complicated:

-You would have to have an iPad/iPhone and a Mac. And the app will have to be developed for Mac. You can then run your computer from your iPhone and your computer will be able to talk to your wireless network which will then talk to the trains. Unfortunately at this time there is no way for an iPhone to run an iPad or vice-versa. 

Diagram:

Your Brain==>iPhone/iPad==>Wireless Router==>TIU Wireless Receiver==>TIU==>TIU Signal==>Trains

There are a lot of things that have to take place for this line of commands to work, which is the only real worry that I have.  You must make sure that your phone has a full strength wireless signal from your router in the basement otherwise communication could fail. Im sure there wil be safeguards put into place to prevent the trains from freaking out when it is lost.

Well, I'm, 68 yrs old, been running trains since 1953 and I'm pretty excited about this innovation. I was at the DCS user group meeting on Wed night when it was announced and was one of the first to try it out on Dave Hikel's ipad at the MTH booth on Thursday PM. Since I have been using an Ipod touch for 4 yrs, it seemed quite natural to me. I really like the visual display and what really caught my attention is the ability to see and control, switches routes & accessories. As mentioned, it will not replace the remote but will enhance operation especially with visitors. To me a natural progression in the application of technology to train control.

I have a second family so I have two sons, 20 & 22 plus 3 grandsons (from my 41 yr old son). Although my two youngest sons were weened on DCS & TMCC (my son was 10 when DCS came out and he mastered everything including lash-ups very quickly). When I told them about this latest innovation, they were very excited about trying it. I don't know whether this will be enough to pry them from their girl friends, though......  I'm looking forward to the grandsons getting into this aspect of train control and feel that this will help to keep their interest up. Whether it will bring in the younger generation for the fist time is hard to say at this point but having a technology that they are familiar with and being user friendly for them certainly will make it easier. How this is marketed and rolled out will be important.

Thanks to Barry, Dave and all for the very interesting & informative User Group meeting on Wednesday night. This was my first YORK experience so everything was quite overwhelming, got me hooked on going back, though......

Mike

When will this be available?

Where is my Clapper??

...keep the rails polished...

According to Dave Hikel, the first free app will be available in about 6 months, it will allow you to control one train much like the DCS commander and will be free. The full app which you have to purchase will be available in approximately one year. So, hang on to those remotes in the meantime.......

Mike

I'm all over these new apps.  They will be great fun!

Go Lionel!  Go MTH!

And... along with driverless cars will also come driverless model trains? Somehow, I still like toggle switches and push buttons. But then again...........!

It is very amusing watching this thread. Two years ago I introduced a method which I have much simplified since on how to control  a MTH layout with a PC. It was accepted about as well as this thread has accepted the subject of this thread. I have several OGR members who are happily running their trains with a PC in either manual or automatic modes.

Many asked me the question, what is the advantage of PC control? The answer is ,if you are running multiple trains on a complex layout, a  touchscreen PC monitor or even a standard monitor with a mouse, the operator has much quicker access to train control then thumbwheeling through the DCS remote. Below are 3 formats I created. One is a simple control panel for running 8 engines with a push button look. The next is a text format for up to 20 engines that changes colors for status and includes an interactive layout control of turnouts. All of these are for manual control and are just easier to get to then the remote. The third panel format is for scanning software for handicapped users. These formats can be and have been by my fellow OGR members modified for auto control.

I have run my trains purely for my amusement from my cell phone through the internet and a PC application that lets you run your PC remotely.

The thing I find interesting is that I know Heikel's method with Blue tooth etc still requires that he has access to MTH software to generate and send commands to the tiu.

My method does not use MTH software but captures and stores MTH commands and recalls them on demand by the user who has paid for the remote and has all rights to use the data as he deems fit for his personal use.

Recently one of my handicap users posted a thread on this forum and generated a lot of interest including me writing an article for OGR magazine on how to accomplish PC control. After initial contacts with the publisher and my sending methods and data as to how to accomplish this method, they have gone quiet after stating they were not going to put themselves in a legal liability with MTH.

I guess my question is , is Heikel's method MTH sponsored?

Skylar,

I also don't understand the push-back on this new technology.  The advancements made to TMCC and DCS have been tremendous.  But that advancement comes with complexity. Your system and the ones shown at York do nothing more than help make the command technology far easier to use and manage.  When I look at the photos you posted I see a system that really makes operating my layout extremely simple resulting in more fun to operate.  I hope that I can afford to incorporate this in the not so far future. 

But I can understand perfectly how this technology may not fit into how some folks like to operate and enjoy their trains.  And that is fine.  What I don't really get are the tone of some of the negative comments against this technology.  

Ed

I guess my question is , is Heikel's method MTH sponsored?

First, it's "Hikel".

Second, sponsored means to me to be financially supported in some way. I tend to doubt that MTH has provided money to Dave and Ted.

However, I know for a fact that MTH completely supports and authorizes their effort. It was Andy Edleman who introduced Dave at the DCS Users Group Meeting and Mike Wolf was espousing the system's virtues at the MTH booth at York.

I think both Lionel's and MTH's app have some great features and I plan to use both, but I think the traditional controller will still be my main tool for operating my trains while theses apps will be used for controlling my layout.

Why? well all you out there with an iPhone or other smartphone put your finger on the screen, and without looking at it, tell me what you are touching. You can't do it.

Now grab your Legacy or DCS controller and also without looking at it, change the speed, blow the whistle and bring the engine to a stop. I bet most of you can do that just fine.

We all here about accidents due to texting while driving, once these apps hit the market I think we are going to hear about crashing trains while using the app

FWIW I did suggest to Jon that the Lionel app should have a very big halt button added to the screen commands so that when things get out of hand, the operator knows right where to touch to stop everything

This is the first time that I have completely read this thread from start to finish. I see that there are many in favor of using an iPhone or iPad for train and layout control, as well as many against. What I have noticed is that many think that you download a free app or a 99 cent app and away go the trains. This is not quite true there has to be a wireless interface somewhere. I control the thermostat in my house from my iPhone, there is an interface that allows it to talk to the wireless router in my home, so I can connect with my iPhone from a remote location or inside the house. A TIU or Legacy base will have to have some type of wireless interface. I did talk with Dave about this at the MTH Booth at York on Saturday and this is something that he and MTH are still experimenting with, he told me there are several boxes on the market that will work with software modification. But there has been no final decision on brand or cost on this yet.

Will this enhance our modular club layout, it certainly will make it interesting for the public to run the trains with their smartphone. Along with the new Lionel Remote Thomas which will also be a big hit this train season when we allow the public to have the controller and run it. 

Will it be interesting and fun to control your trains from an iPad or iPhone certainly for some people while others could care less. I remember when TMCC first appeared at a LOTS train show in our area I took one quick look and thought I am not interested in that, WOW! have I change my mind since that day.

It will happen, no matter what we think, it will cost something to make it happen to your layout. So I say, we all let the chips fall where they may, lets go run our trains and enjoy our hobby the way it is. When the new control systems appear on the market we can then make the necessary decision to do what we want, run with them or run without them. In the mean  time enjoy what we have and be thankful for that. We have no idea what the future may bring. 

Dennis,

A TIU or Legacy base will have to have some type of wireless interface. I did talk with Dave about this at the MTH Booth at York on Saturday and this is something that he and MTH are still experimenting with, he told me there are several boxes on the market that will work with software modification.

That's correct, however, the wireless interface (or wired, using Ethernet) which connects to a Router already exists. It provides a connection to a wireless LAN to which the smart device connect. That's what Dave and MTH were usng to provide smart device connection to the TIU.

Skylar,

Over on the other thread I got pretty much the answer I anticipated from Dave Hikel.

"Hi Ed,

It's up to MTH to decide if others will have access to the DCS codes.  As far as I know they do not plan to release the codes to the general public.  Our software comes with a user agreement similar to the DCS Loader software which does not allow its use for other than authorized purposes.  I'm sure that's a disappointment for a programmer like yourself, but it's not up to me.  MTH wanted to bring a control package to the hobby that is highly capable from day one and we're pleased that they saw our system as worthy."

I may drop a note to MTH and ask if others will be able to be "third-parties" or if it's a closed loop.

Ed

ps. I was really looking forward to the article in OGR about your implementation!

I recommend you really try one before purchase what ever need, I don't like the feel of a throttle slider on a  touch screen  ( phone , tablet or whatever ) 

That is all true however according to Dave's video on his post the software for operating DCS has a built in feature of slowing down or increasing the speed without looking. I'll still continue to use my Legacy and DCS controller but I like the app and the fact there is no thumb wheel I'll like even better!  I would like to see MTH come up with something different other than the thumb wheel with their new remote in the future. 

Barry,

First , I apologize Dave Hikel for mispelling your name.

Second, I wasn't asking if Dave was getting financial sponsership but if he had recieved permission to use MTH code to generate commands to the tiu? All this other high tech stuff means nothing if you cannot generate the  commands to send to the TIU. I think it would be great if Dave's company got this approval and this would be a good step forward but not economically avialable to all OGR's.

Dave and I met a couple of years ago at the actual sight where he developed the PC control for his client. We shared with each other our methods to acheve PC control. I know how he does it. I felt that my approach did not violate any property rights infringements with MTH. I did not pursue his method.

Ed Walsh and Eddiem the photo below is the total hardware requirement to run the trains with my method. It costs about $40 to build and less if you buy parts on the internet.

I will give you the required software to capture and save your command data from the remote. You will have to purchase CTI Train Brain software. $30.

The PC can be anything you have probably laying around the house. Whether you go with a mouse and standard monitor, a laptop or a touchscreen is all a matter of preference and does not significantly affect your control of the  trains.

Of course nothing in this world is for everyone! But the right to create new ideas and accept them or not is the right of everyone. I still like to run a train or two with just the handheld and I appreciate all others who prefer this method.

All nitpicking aside I have my legacy system set up to run of of the JMRI software with the layout switch controls on a digital control panel. Using a relatively inexpensive program to remotely access my computer from my iPad. This gives me complete control of all of the turnouts on my layout and the accessories fro the ipad. I have found this capability incredibly valuable in operating my layout being that my layout is 16X60 feet with 2 duck-unders and walking from place to place on the layout is not logistically reasonable. This also allows me to run a very large layout all by myself. I only wish this software was embraced by MTH so that we can all enjoy this remarkable technology.

What I would like to see is the DCS remote and/or ipad to have a password for the menu button.  This would be great for clubs who would like to have vistors control tains,  without getting into the menu button functions.