Detailing Lionel Great Northern "Empire Builder" 8-car Passenger Train by John Rowlen

Mark, Sometimes I wish I could ride along with the passengers.

The detailing of the second RPO/Baggage Car is finished and waiting for glue to dry before I close it up.   The doors do not open so details need to placed near windows.

I will be cutting out seats from a coach car interior floor to have them ready to install in the "Santium Pass" 10-5 Pullman Sleepers that shipped today.  After that I will be busy painting people for a few days.

Sincerely, john Rowlen

I'm not up to date on Lionel RPO/Baggage cars, but it seems unusual for this model to have doors that don't open. Is this typical of Lionel 21" cars? It's a shame given the level of detail JR has provided that viewing is limited to the windows, and eliminates open doors.

Carl, Lionel still makes an opening door Baggage Car.  The last one that I purchased came in the Lionel 2227260 Amtrak III 4-pack.  This is my favorite Lionel Baggage Car design because the doors open wide to get a glimpse at the people working inside. I like using the Woodland Scenics O scale figures in these cars.

I would buy a Great Northern "Empire Builder" Baggage Car of this design.  Even the Lounge Baggage would be good too.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Beautifully detailed RPO/Baggage with the WS working figures, John.

Apparently, privacy was not a major concern. nor was hygiene.

That’s great being able to see the employees at work.

January 4, 2025 ... Sometimes the work I do is not that picturesque.  Sitting painting people and preparing parts needed in detailing the cars takes time.  Today was one of those less exciting workdays.  At 21 degrees outside, it was a good day to sit in the warm kitchen and finish painting 44 more people and the 14 Seats I need for the two Great Northern 10-5 Pullman Sleepers that arrived.

Tomorrow I will open a Lionel 2427090 2-pack and paint the interior seats and tables in the "Santium Pass" 10-5 Pullman Sleeper that is missing seven seats in the interior floor mold.  There is also a Dome Coach in that 2-pack that will need the Seats in the Dome to be rotated 180 degrees.

Warm wishes, John Rowlen

@John Rowlen posted:

January 4, 2025 ... Sometimes the work I do is not that picturesque.  Sitting painting people and preparing parts needed in detailing the cars takes time.  Today was one of those less exciting workdays.  At 21 degrees outside, it was a good day to sit in the warm kitchen and finish painting 44 more people and the 14 Seats I need for the two Great Northern 10-5 Pullman Sleepers that arrived.

Tomorrow I will open a Lionel 2427090 2-pack and paint the interior seats and tables in the "Santium Pass" 10-5 Pullman Sleeper that is missing seven seats in the interior floor mold.  There is also a Dome Coach in that 2-pack that will need the Seats in the Dome to be rotated 180 degrees.

Warm wishes, John Rowlen

John are the people naturally balanced so that they sit nicely on top of the Tamiya paint jars or do you use some sort of stick-em to make sure they don't fall over?

Coach Joe, The figures are balanced on the Tamiya jars but get significant griding to create a flat surface that will adhere better when glued to the passenger car seats.  I use a battery powered hand-held Dremel tool with sanding drum to grind the figures to fit. I then touch-up the paint.

I stayed up to 3:30 A.M. yesterday, Saturday, December 4, 2025 to paint the interior of the Great Northern "Santium Pass" 10-5 Pullman Sleeper.  I installed seven Seats that were not molded into the interior Floor mold. The car is now complete with two coats of paint and waiting for installation of Seated People.

Here are a few pictures of that car as manufactured and then as customized with additional Seats cut out of a Coach Interior Floor piece. and then painted.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

While I was up late, I rotated the Seats in the Dome Coach #1324 180 degrees. I had to score the underside of the Dome Floor around each Seat Post and then Tap out the post with a regular hobby screwdriver. After sanding any residual glue or plastic from the top surface of the Dome Floor, I installed the seats rotated 180 degrees.  The people are supposed to enter the Dome from the rear.  The only passenger car that had people enter from the front was a Dome Observation.

I have another Lionel 2427090 2-pack still to modify and paint.  Here is a picture of the #1324 Dome Coach after a coat of paint.  The Dome Seats have two coats of paint.

Keeping warm as I work, John Rowlen

A good task to do on a cold day and night!  One of these days I'll get to doing mine!

@John Rowlen, are you satisfied with the lighting inside the dome? I believe the lighting in the dome is indirect; coming from below through the openings in the raised dome floor.

@John Rowlen posted:

II took a day off to rest and found myself back at the kitchen table painting the interior of another Station Sounds Dining Car.  I painted the underside of the tables a Tamiya Red Brown. Then I gave the first of six coats of flat white to the tabletops. I crisscross the bush strokes on each coat of paint to create a linen tablecloth effect.

Next, I painted the first coat of Rose tan on the seats.  I will cut more seat backs and glue them to the backside of the seat cubes molded into the Dining Car Interior Floor.  When the glue dries, I will fill the joints between the chair backs and the cubes with another coat of Rose Tan paint that I mixed.

I found a container with 500 to 800 more unpainted seated people in it, so people will be added after I paint more of them.  This is how I spend a winter evening: watching football or detailing more cars.

Yes, my life is as exciting as "watching the paint dry."

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Now I know when ever I try to purchase Preiser figures, they are always sold out...LOL,  Nice work John,  Happy New Year'...

Carl,  I think the Dome lighting is adequate considering wiring lights in the Dome Roof would be bulky and not be realistic.  When traveling at night, bright lights in the Dome would obstruct the view through the windows. That is why I never drive at night with my car Dome light on.  The light spilling through the openings in the Dome Floor are similar to low light aisle lights in a theater.

Mark,  When I start a set of passengers, sometimes I get tired of the project and stop.  Your following my work keeps me working and pushing myself to make progress.

Quarter Gauger 48,  The tray of people pictured is a supply of similar figures that were made in China and are no longer available.  My different sources for Preiser 65602 Unpainted Seated People cannot get them at this time.  I am hopeful that Preiser will make more.  The current painted China figures have a very hard coated paint on them that cannot be removed.  One figure from China has the clothing painted across the face and then a circle of flesh painted on top of the clothes.  So much paint is used that eye sockets and noses disappear into the mass of layers of paint.  I emailed the Chinese Ebay Seller and the unpainted blanks pictured are no longer available.  I did buy a set of six Preiser Adults with Babies on Ebay for $55.00 plus shipping. That makes each person over $10.00 each.  That is why I buy the 24 Preiser 65602 blanks for $38.00 and paint my own people.  When I paint my own people, I can put them in a variety of colored clothing.

Forward Progress:  I was able to put people in the Dome of the Great Northern "Empire Builder" #1324 Dome Coach while watching football today. Here are a few pictures.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John, Folks following my posts motivate me to keep going as well when I get to more tedious tasks.

@Pingman posted:

I'm not up to date on Lionel RPO/Baggage cars, but it seems unusual for this model to have doors that don't open. Is this typical of Lionel 21" cars? It's a shame given the level of detail JR has provided that viewing is limited to the windows, and eliminates open doors.

I worked on two New York Central baggage cars with the "theater doors" on one end for a friend and the baggage doors do NOT open.

John, great job on the figures.  I have used every figure manufacturer on the market.  For years Peiser was my favorite.  Can't them past few years.  I was one of the original buyers of China figures painted, unpainted, from "we Honest" . He no longer sell them.  I used them as fill ins and in back grounds.  I never thought to sand down the bottoms for a better fit.  Great idea.  I like your variety of figures as you position.  Very nice work..

January 6. 2025 ... I was able to put painted people in the lower level of the Dome Coach #1324 today.  I will inspect the work for any paint corrections needed and coat shinny areas with Dull Cote.  After letting the car dry, it will be the first fully completed car of my second Great northern "Empire Builder" 8-car set.

The other car still on my kitchen table is the "Santium Pass" 10-5 Pullman Sleeper, the car with the Dome Chair #1324 in the Lionel 2427090 2-pack.  Adding people to this Pullman with the seven Seats I already added, should go quickly tonight.

Have a good evening.

John Rowlen

January 6, 2025 ...  This evening, I finished installing Seated People, that I painted, into the Lionel Great Northern "Empire Builder" "Santium Pass" 10-5 Pullman Sleeper to which I added seven Seats.  The cars in the Lionel 2427090 2-pack are now completed.  Here are a few pictures of the people I installed.

Warm wishes, John Rowlen

@John Rowlen posted:

January 6, 2025 ...  This evening, I finished installing Seated People, that I painted, into the Lionel Great Northern "Empire Builder" "Santium Pass" 10-5 Pullman Sleeper to which I added seven Seats.  The cars in the Lionel 2427090 2-pack are now completed.  Here are a few pictures of the people I installed.

Warm wishes, John Rowlen

Why does Lionel leave some compartments open and others not? One would at least expect a door to be molded into the wall.....

Guess the passengers need to climb in the window.......

Nice work John.

Bob

Bob, Thank you for your comments.  I think the smaller Pullman Rooms do not have doors cut into the walls in order to provide a rigid stability to the Floor interior mold.  The small room walls add support at the end of the two interior molds to keep them from warping.  I just wish the missing seven seats could be molded in the rooms where they are missing.  I cut seats for my 10-5 Pullman Sleepers from the interior floor molds of the 21" passenger coach cars.  I was able to get the coach interiors when Lionel first made the NYC Empire State Express cars several years ago.  Now they are not available.

I realize that I am one of the very few Lionel passenger car owners who try to detail the interiors of their passenger cars.  If more people detailed their passenger cars, the Preiser 65602 24 Unpainted Seated People would be in production now and not Sold Out and Unavailable.

I only detail the Lionel and Atlas O 21" passenger cars. I have found them to be the most reliable of the passenger cars.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

January 9, 2025

It is time to paint more people for the passenger cars.  Doing the painting myself $aves me 75% of the cost of purchasing the high quality Preiser painted Seated people.  I also paint the figures in five different colors for clothing and a few different shades for hair.  These color differences, and placing people in different locations, and on different sides of the car, prevents me from seeing the same person over and over and over as the train passes.

Sometimes I am not sure if my hobby is detailing passenger cars or painting people.  Both are necessary and once I have painted the car interior, I suddenly need people to put in the car.  I try to make the people interact with each other when possible.  I will be disappearing for a while as I take pieces of molded plastic and turn them into realistic passengers in my passenger cars.  Long after I am gone, these people will hopefully be riding the rails on someone's layout.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John, the details and passengers really enhance the cars and make for very unique cars.

January 11, 2025 ... I just finished preparing another 52 people for passenger cars.  The hair will be painted when I select the person for a particular place in a car. The clothing is different colors so the person does not repeat car after car in the passenger train.

Staying warm in the kitchen as I work late into the night.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John As always your work is truly outstanding and an inspiration to everyone( especially me)  in this wonderful hobby A question if I may Do you think you will be detailing any of the new 18inch aluminum passenger cars that Lionel has added to its catalogs

January 14,2025 ...  FJI,  At this time I have no plans to detail the new 18" passenger cars because I read that they have people already installed in the cars.  Detailing would require the removal of the rubber figures and cleaning the glue off the seats before I paint.  I have not purchased any of the new 18" passenger cars.  I do own the Lionel 18" "Powhattan Arrow" and the "Pocahontas" four-car sets.

At this time I am finishing the Great Northern "Empire Builder" with an additional Lionel 2427090 2-pack with a Dome Coach and the 10-5 "Santium Pass" Pulman Sleeper.  I am hoping that Lionel will offer two more Pullman Sleepers for the Great Northern passenger train.

I did locate about 500 to 800 more seated people blanks that I will paint throughout the winter.  I did remove the Lionel rubber people from my George H.W. Bush Funeral Train 21-inch passenger cars and replace them with Preiser 65692 Seated People I painted.

Stay warm and healthy as you enjoy 2025.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John Thank you for your wonderful work and thoughtful words  Keep well and safe F J I

Transferring a Great Northern Dome #1324 body shell onto an Alaska VistaVision #501 chassis.

Since I have an Alaska VistaVision Dome Car #501 that was not selling, I decided to transfer my second Great Northern Dome #1324 body shell onto the Alaska Vista Vision chassis.

The process was very time consuming since Truck side frames of silver and black had to be transferred as well. In order to reach the truck's side frame screws, the trucks had to be removed from the metal chassis.  This caused the Kinematic coupler arm spring to come loose and need to be re-installed after truck frames were transferred.

There is not much cabling to allow for the removal of the Alaska Dome Floor with Camera to be unscrewed from the roof of the Alaska Shell.  Great care must be used not to pull the Camera Ribbon Cable and software bundle as the car is opened.  I do not recommend people try this transfer, so pictures are no being suppled.  When I placed Preiser 65602 Seated People in my Vista Vision Camera Dome cars, great care had to be used since the body shell with attached camera is more difficult to work with.

It took about two-and-a-half hours to complete the transfer.  Here are three pictures of the finished cars.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

A vista dome camera transfer-- brilliant!!!  And expensive.

January 17, 2025 ... The last of the Great Northern "Empire Builder" passenger cars has its interior painted and ready for people.  It is the third "Santium Pass" 10-5 Pullman Sleeper that I am detailing.  I gave the interior two coats of paint today and added seven seats to the five Staterooms and two smaller rooms. The seats were cut out of a Lionel NYC ESE Coach interior floor mold. It would be nice if Lionel would make two more Pullman Sleepers for this passenger train.

With temperatures going below zero for the next few days, I will be keeping warm and painting people at my kitchen table. . . . or buried deep beneath my blanks and sleeping in.  I can appreciate why some animals hibernate.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

@John Rowlen, I only wish the surgeon who did a procedure in me a couple years ago would have had your steady hands and vision! Simply amazing work with the painted interiors and passengers.

Question: I have LIONEL 15" aluminum cars and perhaps the LIONEL folks had a perverse sense of humor because the toilets on some are plainly visible through a window. Is that the case with your GB EB cars?

January 18, 2025 ... Carl,  On most of the 21" passenger cars the toilets are visible.  On one set the bathroom windows were frosted.  Remember the train is moving, so looking in on unsuspecting people would take a bit of "effart".  The people are seated so only "heads" show, not "tails".

Stay warm this week as temperatures drop below zero.  It is perfect weather to stay inside and run our trains.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John, you have a good plan to keep painting passengers to populate the car this week.  The difference between the painted seats and walls are well worth the effort.

@John Rowlen, John your work continues to amaze me.  I have a couple of questions if you don't mind?  You have detailed the interiors of 3 Santium Pass 10-5 Pullman sleepers, since you are super detailing interiors do you also change the names on the exteriors?  Also you mentioned a 4 step or 4 color paint system o make the baggage and RPO floors look like they have wood grain.  Did you ever describe this effort in detail, like a tutorial?  I have some Weaver box cars that have black plastic floors, scribed to look like floor boards.  I was thinking of painting them to look like wood.

January 19, 2025 ... Coach Joe,  I am not changing the names or road numbers on the "Santium Pass" 10-5 Pullman Sleepers.  I hold out hope that one day Lionel will make two other Pullman room configurations in the Great Norther "Empire Builder. 21" passenger cars  I would like to see these cars individually package in single car orange boxes with their own shipper. The floor layout used in the Southwestern Limited Pullmans would be good.

Four-color Wet Blending to create simulated wood floors

The wet four-color process must be done quickly with a 1/4" FLAT paint brush,  I use flat buff or cream, flat yellow, flat red brown, and a darker Hull Brown.  The lighter buff or cream is applied to a 4-to-six-inch section at a time, drawing the wet colors straight across the car floor.  A bit of yellow is added second, then the red brown, then the darker Hull Brown. The 1/4" flat brush is drawn across the floor to blend these colors so color differences are visible in lines. DO NOT OVER-WORK the paint or the different colors will blend too much, and the striping effect will diminish.

Work quickly because the paint will begin to dry and begin to become rough and pull up the base previously applied paint.

Practice on a piece of plastic.  If the effect is not what you want, let the work dry overnight and try again another day.

Once freight is glued to the car floor, any flaws in floor paint will disappear into the visual background as the freight becomes the prominent item of focus.  Remember that freight-hauling over time can cause leaks or spills, causing stains to mark the floor surface.  (At least the car floor isn't black plastic anymore.)

Have a good evening.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

January 19,2025 ...  Today I finished putting seated people in the 3rd "Santium Pass" Pullman Sleeper.  I carefully selected people from my supply boxes of different poses of almost finished people and corrected any flaws in their paint job.

Using a hand-held battery-operated Dremel Tool with a sanding drum, I grind down the bottoms of the figures to the correct height for looking out the windows.  The grinding also creates a flat surface that adheres better to the passenger car seats.

While watching football today, I took my time working down the car, making sure not to repeat a placement of the same people in the same place,  Each passenger car should look different,  I referred to photos of the previous "Santium Pass" cars to do this.

Here are pictures of today's work. This car had seven seats added and one sink from a spare NYC ESE Coach interior floor mold.

Warm wishes, John Rowlen

@John Rowlen, thank you for that quick tutorial.  Do you clean the brush between colors, use a different brush for each color or let the colors blend on the same brush?

@John Rowlen, in addition to flattening the bottoms, do you also narrow figures in order to pose them and/or seat them side-by-side?

I ask because the 15" aluminum cars with interiors that I've been working with (e.g. 6-31712) use the same seats as the 21" cars and the figures LIONEL populated those cars with are much smaller than 1/48 scale. In fact, I recently purchased some Evemodel painted seated figures on Ebay which were advertised as 1/50 scale and these were too large to seat side-by-side (without significant "surgery"), and too large to mix with the LIONEL figures in the cars.

January 20, 2025 ... Coach Joe,  I do not clean the 1/4-inch flat brush.  I only dip the very tip of the brush in the yellow. If necessary, I blot excess paint from the same brush,  It is a wet paint process that blends colors creating new shades as the wet paints blend with strokes across the floor of the car.  You should not see streaks of pure yellow, but rather a blending of a subdued yellow under the red brown and darker brown.

The overall effect can be lightened with more buff or cream, or darkened with adding stripes of wet red brown.  Avoid pure coverage of any of the four colors used.  It is the blending that makes the subtle wood floor effect.

Again, I use only ONE 1/4" flat paint brush.  My floor in the Great Northern RPO/Baggage is a lighter finish than the floor seen in the Amtrak III Baggage Car shown in this thread.  The same colors can create totally different results.

Carl,  I do grind the hips on occasion when I seat two people next to each other.  When putting the man feeding the baby next to his wife, I had to grind down the armrest under the adoring wife watching the baby being fed a bottle,  Since these two people are in a large stateroom, the missing arm rest is not noticeable.

The young girl and boy in a jacket needs the boy's rear hip ground away to fit between the girl and the interior armrest.  My placement takes time and some repainting after I fit the people in place.

I recommend using the battery hand-held Dremel Tool with a sanding drum installed.

The Evemodel figures from China are similar to the Preiser 65602 24-pack of Unpainted Seated People.  There are three sizes mixed in this pack: large 1/43 scale, medium 1/45 and some smaller 1/50 scale.  The "girl looking to her left" can appear as a woman, or as a child with more grinding off the bottom of the figure. In a family grouping of this same figure, it is the variation in height that makes the figures look like girls of different ages.

I spend a lot of time in grinding and placing the seated people figures.  My kitchen floor is covered in plastic bits and powdered plastic after detailing one car. The plastic can be very slippery and needs to be cleaned up after each work session.  Hopefully I have helped answer your question.  Placement of these people is not a matter of gluing them in place, but rather an act of minor surgery to get them to fit in the same seat.  Good luck with detailing your cars.

I spent today watching the Presidential Inauguration and putting people in the Dome of my Alaska Dome Coach #501. Three of the parent figures I used are painted by Preiser in the 65327 six pack the sells for $58.00 plus shipping. Preiser's paint job is amazing, reinforcing the saying that "you get what you pay for".  Here are five pictures of the Alaska Dome Coach #501.

Stay warm and enjoy your trains, Sincerely, John Rowlen

@John Rowlen, thank you for the comprehensive reply to my questions. I'd like a cordless Dremel but my trusty corded models are indestructible, and the cord presents no significant problems.

You have an excellent eye for populating the various floor plans with interesting posing and demographics.

Well done!

January 21, 2025 ... I stayed up late (or early) to finish putting people in the lower level of the Alaska Dome Car #501 so I can list it for sale with my other Alaska 21-inch passenger cars.  Here are a few pictures.  The car is included in this thread because I put the Alaska Vista Vision Camera chassis under a Great Northern Dome Coach #1324 body shell as shown earlier in this thread.

Have a good day.   Sincerely, John Rowlen