Did the 700E Hudson Pull Both Madison Type Cars and Streamline Cars??

Are you inquiring about the REAL New York Central and heavyweight vs. lightweight streamlined passenger cars?

Hot:

 

He asks about the 700E which was a Lionel Lines, not a NYC, locomotive, so he probably means the 700E.

If I was going to buy cars to pull behind the Hudson, which would I pull?

 

Fred

YES!!

OK then. The REAL New York Central Hudson class locomotives hauled MAINLY heavyweight passenger cars. The term "madison cars" was/is a Lionel term, as NO railroad actually had "Madison Cars", i.e. they were all referred to has heavyweights.

 

The NYC obviously entered the world of lightweight, streamlined passenger equipment with the introduction of their STREAMLINED 20th Century Limited, in 1938. Thus, the NYC Hudson classes also handled streamlined passenger equipment. Obviously, some of the NYC Hudsons where also streamlined, but even those eventually lost their streamlined shrouds, but still continued to handle both heavyweight AND streamlined passenger consists.

Hot water

Very clear explanation, thanks. Not to hijack Fred's post but I have a follow-up question.

 

After the hudsons had lost their shrouds, what color streamlined cars would they have pulled. Two tone grey? stainless steel? something else? 

 

 

Both.

The 700E had a set of metal passenger cars commonly called the Rail Chief cars.  These cars were streamlined and were similar to the articulated passenger cars of the Hiawatha set. So yes, the Lionel 700E did pull streamlined passenger cars.

 

The 763E came in sets with stamped metal constructed "heavyweight" cars. These cars were much shorter than the  phenolic cars that came with the 773 in 1950.  I do not believe that the 700E had a set with the phenolic heavyweight cars, at least officially from Lionel. One could certainly put such a set together.

Fred, even though both would be correct, I would lean towards the heavyweight cars.

that would be my preference as well.

So in 1938 were NYC heavyweight cars two tone gray, Pullman green, or a mix.  I assume that the Madison car red was a Pennsylvania Railroad color.  Since the NYC and PRR did not play well together, the red cars behind a 700E might not be the best combination. 

Yes, a mix.

It is my impression that the original poster is discussing the PROTOTYPICAL use of New York Central Hudson class locomotives. It is also my understanding that the famous Lionel 700E NYC Hudson model was indeed "SCALE" and was NOT lettered "Lionel Lines". 

THANKS for all your HELP and input. Now it's up to me to decide which way to go: Madison Cars or Streamline!!!

 

Did not Know Madison Cars were strictly a Lionel Name given to those Kind of cars!!!

 

Thanks again,

 

Fred

 

P.S. Maybe I will find something at York next week!!

 

FREDSTRAINS

Fred

Lionel and K-line make some very nice green, heavy-weight, cars in NYC and Pullman lettering. Your not restricted to the "Madison" offering for heavy-weight cars.

True, I have a pretty nice "set" of MTH two-tone gray NYC heavyweight passenger cars, that I run with LOTS of headend express cars. Although I prefer the Golden Gate Depot 21" scale heavyweights, once I up-graded the MTH cars to "close coupled" with Kadee couplers, the look very nice behind any of my NYC Hudsons.

You mean the NYC had a 700E  !?

I missed that one....

All kidding aside, sounds like you can run almost anything behind it that you like!

You could always get both a streamlined and a heavyweight ("Madison") set.  You could even mix and match the different car types in one consist, as was also prototypical.

Aaron

Very interesting information.

To say the LEAST!

 

Thanks again for all your input, very informative!

 

FREDSTRAINS

Fred, do you model a particular era or just run trains? If you model the '30s - early '40s then green heavyweights would be the norm or all two tone gray heavyweight cars for the Pacemaker train. After WWII as passenger service declined then streamliners and mixed trains would have been more common especially in the '50s when the streamlining came off the engines.

 

Pete

Did not Know Madison Cars were strictly a Lionel Name given to those Kind of cars!!!

 

 

Actually Lionel never used that name except on the side of a car.  The use of "Madison Cars" as a generic term for heavyweight passenger cars is a modern era O gauge phenomenon.  You can read discussion of that topic here.

 

https://ogrforum.com/t...ly=21984675555882691

 

For a look at real Hudsons in color action watch here thanks to the miracle of Kadachrome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I run a 4-car set of Lionel NYC two-tone gray heavyweights (from 1997) behind my Vision Line 700E Hudson and they look great! The white stripes and white sans seraph "NEW YORK CENTRAL" lettering are salient accents on these cars.

When the streamlining came off engines in the 50's, why was this done? Was it a style/fashion thing, that is, art deco was seen as old hat, or was it purely a practical, technical decision?

In the late '40s the diesels took over pulling the name train streamliners. The streamlining was taken off the steam engines for easier servicing. 

 

Pete

I recall reading somewhere that after one of the Dreyfuss Husdons was in a grade crossing collision in 1945, NYC management ordered all streamlining be removed.

 

Rusty

Do you have any Lionel Product Numbers or pictures  for these cars?

 

FREDSTRAINS

The catalog number for the set is 6-19079.

 

That is exactly what I'm looking for. Now If I can just find a Set on the Forum or York!

 

FREDSTRAINS

there was also a 2 car add on set. I believe the number is 29004.

Removing the streamlining also had an economical effect.  Made it easier to perform maintenance & repairs on the locomotives (read: lower maintenance & labor costs).  NYC certainly wasn't the only railroad that got into the practice of removing streamlining off their locomotives.

Glad to be of service~

Fredstrains:

 

The set depicted above (Lionel 19079 from 1997) is MY set.

 

The individual car numbers and names are as follows:

 

19080 - REA 2564 baggage

 

19081 - Park Place coach

 

19082 - Star Beam coach

 

19083 - Hudson Valley observation

 

Most of the streamlining came was removed during WW-2.  The metal involved was often aluminum and was needed for war material.  The railroad crews didn't mind because in most cases the "streamlining" was a PITA as far as access to things that needed maintenance were concerned.  Once the war was over the handwriting was on the wall about the long term life expectancy of steam was concerned.  Some of the railroads did build a few new engines after the war and equipped them with roller bearings and automatic lubrication.  Even with these costs savings on labor the diesel was still incredibly cheaper to own/operate.