Do new Lionel locomotives require immediate lubrication?

In my experience.  The internal gearboxes of new locos have a minimal amount of grease. Often times the grease is on the side of the gearbox and not even on the gears.

Most steamers have a "grease" screw that can be removed to add grease to the gearbox .5- 1.0 ml of grease is the recommendation from MTH. I find this good for all brands.

Diesels on the other hand may require some disassembly to get grease into the gearbox. How this is done , depends on truck design. Lionel has used several different styles over the years.

External gears on diesels can be visually inspected for lube as well as the drive rods on steamers.

It's also good to put a drop or two of oil on the axle bushings of both diesels and steamers. This is done with the engine upside down and putting a needle oiler between the chassis/gearbox and the back of the drive wheels and lubing the axle shaft.

I always lube the exposed gears and oil the axle bushings before running the first time.  The exposed gears do not usually seem to have lube on them from the factory.

Rick hit all the important points, ….when our models are mass produced, they are not paying that close of attention when they shoot the lubricants on or in. As Rick has mentioned, and I’ve seen many times on new locomotives, there’s a small blob of what they call “ grease” ( it looks more like sterile vasoline ) clung to the side, not even touching the gears in the box. So a good rule of thumb, if it moves, it needs to be lubed.

Pat

Thank you both.

@@Dougklink Seeing no visible grease on the visible gears of my new F7s is actually what prompted the question, so thanks for confirming.

@RickO posted:

Diesels on the other hand may require some disassembly to get grease into the gearbox. How this is done , depends on truck design. Lionel has used several different styles over the years.

You said a mouthful there Rick!  If you get one of the Lionel TMCC diesels with the puzzle trucks, lubing the worm can be a significant chore!

How does one deliver grease to the target gearbox?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You said a mouthful there Rick!  If you get one of the Lionel TMCC diesels with the puzzle trucks, lubing the worm can be a significant chore!

My son has two of those puzzle truck diesels, ….that he adores, and runs the C-R-A-P out of, ……one had half a pea size glob stuck on the motor mount, but the gears were bone dry, …so while apart,..I drilled a path way to stick a fine tipped syringe to get grease in there.…..those trucks are the most un-engineered parts I’ve ever laid my eyes on…..😉

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

My son has two of those puzzle truck diesels, ….that he adores, and runs the C-R-A-P out of, ……one had half a pea size glob stuck on the motor mount, but the gears were bone dry, …so while apart,..I drilled a path way to stick a fine tipped syringe to get grease in there.…..those trucks are the most un-engineered parts I’ve ever laid my eyes on…..😉

Probably not a bad idea.  However, I have to take exception with the term un-engineered.  I think some bonehead engineer spent far too much time making those monstrosities!

Always lubricate the exposed gears and gearboxes.  I bought a Lionel 8753 GG1 new in box.  Hadn't been unboxed for 40 years.  Took it apart, cleaned out the gearboxes, greased and lubed it.

In answer to this thread's topic question, YES, THEY DO. I've been using Lucas Red "N" Tacky #2 grease (available from most auto parts stores) applied with a syringe on the gears and Liberty Synthetic Lubricant (available from most hobby shops) on the axles. They have worked well for me over the years. A tube of Red "N" Tacky will last you a lifetime.

@Yellowstone Special posted:

In answer to this thread's topic question, YES, THEY DO. I've been using Lucas Red "N" Tacky #2 grease (available from most auto parts stores) applied with a syringe on the gears

Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to get the Red-N-Tacky into the syringe!

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@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to get the Red-N-Tacky into the syringe!

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A good grease but I got tired of Red N "Taffy" , messy, oil separation in the tube leaving the remainder a gummy substance that refuses to stick to anything.

I have some white lithium in the garage from my motocross riding days 25 years ago. Its just as fresh as the day I bought it.

So I grabbed a new tube for the trains. It's in a nice squeeze tube like bathroom caulk making it simple to fill a syringe. Less drag on the cheap Canon motors Lionel is using these days as well.😉

@RickO posted:

A good grease but I got tired of Red N "Taffy" , messy, oil separation in the tube leaving the remainder a gummy substance that refuses to stick to anything.

I have some white lithium in the garage from my motocross riding days 25 years ago. Its just as fresh as the day I bought it.

So I grabbed a new tube for the trains. It's in a nice squeeze tube like bathroom caulk making it simple to fill a syringe. Less drag on the cheap Canon motors Lionel is using these days as well.😉

Doubtless it works just fine.  It's far more important to lube the gears than exactly what you lube them with.

I'm sure that all of you realize what you're saying here in this thread, and I really tend to agree strongly with you, but there quite are a number of others who don't seem to.  I'd state the obvious this way:

     If you want to get into this hobby, and be satisfied with it in the long run, it would be best if you are, or aspire to be, a tinkerer at heart.  From day one.

Taking apart your brand new purchase, no matter what it is, is not the first thing that comes to mind for most people -- except maybe us model railroaders.  Others generally call the need to "fix" a brand new purchase a case of exceedingly poor quality and complain to high heaven about it.

I recall many years ago, about 60 now, my Dad's neighbor bought a brand-new Oldsmobile, and to make sure that he'd never have to buy another car, ever, he took it apart to 1.) check and retighten every fastener and 2.) lubricate all mating sliding and rotating parts.  This process took at least 9 months, in his garage, a little work every night, before he declared it fit for the road and began driving it.

It apparently worked.  He drove that car until the day he died, and that was about 35 years afterward.

Are you, or would you like to be if you could, a tinkerer?  Or perhaps a hands-off operator instead?

Mike

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Doubtless it works just fine.  It's far more important to lube the gears than exactly what you lube them with.

And that’s the best recommendation, ……use what you like & what works for you,….anything to keep gears and moving parts from metal to metal contact, ……over lube it if you ain’t sure,…..far easier to clean up a leak, or a mess, then replacing expensive or worse, parts made out of unobtanium……😉

Pat

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to get the Red-N-Tacky into the syringe!

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Good one, John and you’re right. I use a popsicle stick to get it from the tube into the syringe with a lot of scraping off the excess and transferring it (with more scraping) back into the tube. Fortunately, I don’t have to do it very much, because I have only a few engines. So, even a full syringe will last me a long time.

I’ve never had the Red “N” Tacky separate as Rick describes. But his suggestion of the White Lithium Grease right out of the tube sounds intriguing. 👍

And yes Mike, we do have to be tinkerers with our model trains to some extent. But my problem is, I spend so much time “tinkering” with my Fender steel and amp to keep them sounding just right, I leave the train repairs to others, which I don’t mind doing. 😉

@RickO posted:

A good grease but I got tired of Red N "Taffy" , messy, oil separation in the tube leaving the remainder a gummy substance that refuses to stick to anything.

I have some white lithium in the garage from my motocross riding days 25 years ago. Its just as fresh as the day I bought it.

So I grabbed a new tube for the trains. It's in a nice squeeze tube like bathroom caulk making it simple to fill a syringe. Less drag on the cheap Canon motors Lionel is using these days as well.😉

Well, you’ve done it now, Rick. I was so intrigued by your post about this stuff that I just ordered one off Amazon. Thanks for the tip. 👍

@Yellowstone Special posted:

Well, you’ve done it now, Rick. I was so intrigued by your post about this stuff that I just ordered one off Amazon. Thanks for the tip. 👍

What's another grease debate thread lol!

  I think John and Pat are the ones with the best advice ,with the lubing being more important than the lube.

Red N Tacky is certainly good stuff, it's in half of my locos.  However, on top of the separation I experienced, and the fact that clumsy me would get it everywhere. I switched to the lighter white lithium.

The squeeze tube is easier to work with and still has enough for a hundred gearboxes. It's quite similar to what labelle markets with the ptfe.

Imo, given the low temps and relatively low speeds train gearboxes operate at. One could probably almost get away with vasoline. Use what works for you.

Back in the day when Dad bought me a Marx train set he also handed me a quart of Texaco non-detergent 30W motor oil and a jar of Vaseline for the gears. Never had any issues with the set.

@RickO posted:

I have some white lithium in the garage from my motocross riding days 25 years ago. Its just as fresh as the day I bought it. So I grabbed a new tube for the trains. It's in a nice squeeze tube like bathroom caulk making it simple to fill a syringe. Less drag on the cheap Canon motors Lionel is using these days as well.😉

This is exactly what I use as well.

@ByronB - Regardless whether it's a new or used engine, I always start with a lubrication of the unit - bearing in mind Lionel's long standing quote "A little bit goes a long way" (especially in regards to oil).  Good Luck!

Also, don't forget the rollers, both at the pivot point and the rollers, themselves.

I use lubricating oil (like Liberty) at the pivot points and Bachmann's conductive E-Z lube for the rollers.

@Richie C. posted:

Also, don't forget the rollers, both at the pivot point and the rollers, themselves.

I use lubricating oil (like Liberty) at the pivot points and Bachmann's conductive E-Z lube for the rollers.

Yes, agreed,…..conductive lube for the rollers is a very good idea…..and a big help…

Pat

Any lube that is synthetic and not oil based will not turn rock hard if trains sit in a box for many years. Also works great on keeping fishing reel drags screaming!

Great Question, Great answers, I agree with @RickO…. Happy Railroading Everyone

There was a note in my first childhood Marx set back in the dim, distant, geologic past that said to use Vaseline to lubricate, and Marx ts known to run forever, so l ran it to where the collectors were worn through, and a driver spun on the axle, using Vaseline.

Hey, RickO. Your suggestion has been a hit and I received my tube of Lucas White Lithium Grease today. It was so much easier to just fill the syringe directly with no mess and scraping up excess grease. Thanks for that.

Only, what am I going to do with all this Red-N-Tacky #2 now? The tube is still about 9/10 full. I guess out to the garage it goes. 😉

Vern - Presumably the syringe didn’t come with the grease, or did it?  And if not, where did you get it?  Thanks.

@PH1975 posted:

Vern - Presumably the syringe didn’t come with the grease, or did it?  And if not, where did you get it?  Thanks.

I ordered the syringes off Amazon and they were delivered the next day (this morning).

At the Amazon website, enter “industrial plastic syringes” and all kinds of quantities and sizes come up. I like the 10 ml size for greasing engines. But had to order 25 of them for $15 (not bad), to get that size.

Incidentally, I just finished greasing 3 diesels and I like the viscosity of the white lithium grease better. It’s not only easier to get into the syringe right from the tube, but is also easier to apply.  

@ByronB posted:

I feel like this is kind of a dumb question, but it’s not clear in the owner’s manuals.

Do brand new locomotives come factory-lubricated or should they be lubricated before ever running them?

The manuals are clear on how to lubricate, but do not address this specific question. I’m most concerned about oil as I don’t want to over lubricate.

I'd lightly lubricate - better safe than sorry

So there you go, ByronB.

Lightly lubricate as Lionelski suggests and use Lucas White Lithium Grease as RickO suggests.

Isn’t this a great forum for learning stuff?

I'm glad your happy with the grease Vern. Another option in the vast sea of o guage lubrication choices.

@PH1975 posted:

Vern - Presumably the syringe didn’t come with the grease, or did it?  And if not, where did you get it?  Thanks.

A baby medicine syringe from the local drug store works well too. That's what I use, leftover from many years ago when my kids were small.

@RickO posted:

I'm glad your happy with the grease Vern. Another option in the vast sea of o guage lubrication choices.

Thanks Rick, for helping me broaden my horizons. 😉

As a modeler with no layout, 9/10 times I would bring a new model home to run on a circle of track to test make sure all functions work. (Under warranty) Most times I would not lubricate the model when I know its going to make a few loops before getting boxed back up. I do this to avoid any excessive oils drip out when wrapped up in its box. Only exceptions I use oil is when i hear a squeak or if I know im going to take the model to run for the day such as a train show.

@Yellowstone Special posted:

Hey, RickO. Your suggestion has been a hit and I received my tube of Lucas White Lithium Grease today. It was so much easier to just fill the syringe directly with no mess and scraping up excess grease. Thanks for that.

Only, what am I going to do with all this Red-N-Tacky #2 now? The tube is still about 9/10 full. I guess out to the garage it goes. 😉

Give the Red-N-Trashy to a truck driver you may know……they can slather that mess all over their 5th wheel …..😊

Pat

With brand new locomotives, I lubricate the outside exposed gears with Red n Tacky, and use light oil sparingly on the linkages and wheels and rollers according to the owner's manual. I have never applied grease to internal gears inside the locomotive.

If I hear a squeak or funny sound, I do the above again.

For over 20 years, I've never had a problem.

I've opened several gear boxes.  There is usually a glob of lithium grease, whether it is on the worm, and associated drive gear,  is another matter.  As with a lot of equipment, daily inspection, and additional lubrication is required, (Farm heritage, I still own a grease guy.)