Does anybody remember Lionel Ho

Which DVD?

I remember the venture Lionel made into the HO market. My father bought a set for around the Christmas tree. It was a dockside switcher with a few cars, track and transformer. I believe it was short lived because it was expensive compared to the other HO. Sort of think Lionel figured they could charge more for the Lionel name. I don't think Lionel is venturing into HO again. Maybe they thought they could sell a lot of Polar Express sets to that market.....Paul

The DvD is called Lionel action.

Lionel also venture back into HO either 90s or early 00s.  Didn't last long.

I'm not one of them, but there definitely is a segment of the collecting population that is into Lionel HO (from the 60's).  I saw a guy with a table full of it at Allentown last weekend, and there are always several member hall tables with a lot of it at York.

I never bought any, but I do think it's very interesting, especially when I see 1/2 size versions of a few of the accessories they did. That was my complaint with HO as a kid (70's to 80's), the lack of decent operational accessories.  There may not be a lot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen either a Radar Tower or Control Tower (can't remember for sure which it was).

-Dave

I have a Lionel HO UP Challenger.  It is a very nice model with DCC, smoke, etc.

NH Joe

Lionel has made a number of tries at HO. In the  1960's when I dumped O-27 and asked my folks for HO they bought a Lionel HO set.....which was really Athearn HO marketed as Lionel.  Then in the late 70's early 80's made made another try with their own tooling. I still have a SP GS-4 marked Lionel on the chassis.....it's the same tooling as Bachmann's GS-4 loco today.  Then Lionel made a number of loco's in the 90's IIRC......Big Boy and UP Turbines come to mind.  So todays Polar HO set is not ground breaking and I doubt it will grow into a full line.   MTH HO line is somewhat stagnate and not expanding. 

I remember seeing the Lionel catalogs during the mid 1960's as a child but I wasn't into H.O trains as they seemed too small. I never got into Lionel H.O. anything.

Lee Fritz

I had a American Flyer HO set with a decent looking Hudson. AAMOF, it looked just like the scale Williams (not brass) of today.

I was heavy into HO back in the 1960s and 1970s. I had a few Lionel diesel locomotives that were "OK," not bad, not good, just locomotives. I think a good chunk of the problem is that the HO market had many more competitors than O/O27 did. I don't recall that any of my usual hobby or train shops stocked or displayed any significant amount of Lionel HO. But AHM and Rivarossi were all over the place as well as Tyco and a lot of "toy" brands.

Maybe Lionel was concentrating on selling HO "sets" through department/discount stores. Just a guess.

I have a good sized Lionel HO collection that I started while I was in High School.......  My main focus is Lionel made items from 1959-1966 while I do have a few items from the 57-58 period and latter.  Operating Accessories included the Banjo Signal, Gateman House, Rotary Beacon tower, Radar Tower, Whistle & Horn versions of a Locomotive Shop, Log dump car, side dump car, Milk Car......

About 15 years ago some one made a Control tower as a what if and he also made the Bell ringing crossing lights.......   With 3-D printing I am shocked other have not made other op-acces smaller for the ho line

I still have my first Lionel HO Train set

Does anybody remember Lionel Ho?

Was that Don Ho's brother?  Tiiiiiiiny bubbles......

Bah dump bump.  Tishhhhhhh.

SJS

I have been thinking about starting a collection when they aren't that expensive.

I always liked the 1960 Lionel catalog cover, with the matching warbonnets and rolling stock in both gauges.

I believe that was a set called the "over and under set" or something like that it had Ho Santa Fe and O guage Santa Fe.

Serenska posted:

Does anybody remember Lionel Ho?

Was that Don Ho's brother?  Tiiiiiiiny bubbles......

Bah dump bump.  Tishhhhhhh.

SJS

Try the veal.....and tip your waitress!!!! 

southern Railfan posted:

I believe that was a set called the "over and under set" or something like that it had Ho Santa Fe and O guage Santa Fe.

I think it was called the "Father and Son Set"

AMCDave posted:

Lionel has made a number of tries at HO. In the  1960's when I dumped O-27 and asked my folks for HO they bought a Lionel HO set.....which was really Athearn HO marketed as Lionel.  Then in the late 70's early 80's made made another try with their own tooling. I still have a SP GS-4 marked Lionel on the chassis.....it's the same tooling as Bachmann's GS-4 loco today.  Then Lionel made a number of loco's in the 90's IIRC......Big Boy and UP Turbines come to mind.  So todays Polar HO set is not ground breaking and I doubt it will grow into a full line.   MTH HO line is somewhat stagnate and not expanding. 

I believe that it was 2003, when Lionel released the HO Challengers, and Veranda Turbines. These were very High quality locomotives, they were die-cast, dual mode DCC/Analog DC, with sound, very nice running locomotives, I have a complete collection of all 12 Challengers, and all 4 Turbines. They did 4 UP Challenger versions, Black Coal fired, without smoke lifters, Black Oil Fired with Smoke lifters, Two tone Grey w/yellow stripes and letters oil fired with smoke lifters, and my personal Favorite , the Two tone Grey with Silver stripes/letters oil fired with smoke lifters. they also did Rio Grande and Clinchfield, all 6 versions had 2 road#s each, for a total of 12 different locomotives. Lionel went all in,on these and even had separate tooling for the Clinchfield models with single smoke stacks, not the double stack of the other models.

They also did 4 road#s in the Veranda Turbines, with 2 #s having the grey truck side frames, and 2#s having the Silver truck side frames, I don't recall, which was the early, and which was the late version on the prototype, but that is a small but significant detail, especially for a company known for "Toy Trains".

I had a very large Lionel collection before I ever had my first 3 rail O Gauge train. While the Athearn Heavyweight passenger cars were not finely detailed, and lacked detailed interiors, they matched the TTG, with Silver stripes/letters version very nicely, and I had a 12 car train of them that was very popular with both club members and visitors, while I was an active member of the Columbia Gorge Model Railroad Club in Portland, OR.

Doug

I still have the Virginian Rectifier set my parents bought me. As usual the rubber bands have disintegrated and if I take the engine out of its box, the trucks will fall off.

Thanks Doug for setting my fuzzy fact right! I had left HO by then and didn't pay much attention. 

Back in the 80's I has a complete collection (less a few Riverossi diesels) of Lionel HO. The hardest cars to find were the ones with loads. Like flatcars with Matchbox tractors, the auto loader with the original cars. Lionel also did their Railscope engine in HO in 1989.

It seems that Lionel got into the HO game in the Late 50's/early sixties  when sales were sinking and they wanted to find something to sell that was popular.  I don't believe the expansion into HO was all that successful as it was all gone in a few years. Then there were the Lionel race car sets , and science sets that were also failed experiments. Today HO trains remain popular but compared to O gauge they are low cost and would probably not bring the revenue that Lionel is looking for.

Some(1974-76) of the assembly was done in the old Trailmobile facility in Norwood, Ohio.  John in Lansing, ILL

Like Mike Slater above, I'm also a student of Lionel HO, and although some of it wasn't that good, a lot of it, with normal maintenance and servicing, is pretty good.

Early on, they enlisted makers like Athearn and Rivarossi to make their locos and rolling stock, then started to make their own.  Some of it used some very good tooling and dies.  For example, their 4-6-2 was made from the classic John English HO 4-6-2 (I have both, and despite the English one being made from die cast metal, they look identical).

I prefer the Lionel diesel Hustler switcher to the early Athearn, in that Lionel used a gear mechanism to the axles, instead of Athearn's rubber band drive.

I think Lionel made some missteps in the 60's, when they started to replicate the gimmick cars (I have the operating helicopter flatcar, for one) for a market that really wanted more scale and authentic equipment for their HO running.

The revival in the 70's was nice and they had some great offerings, but couldn't really compete with the beginner market (where Tyco, Bachmann and Life Like had cornered with low cost starter sets).

But I do like Lionel HO.  Quite underrated.

The first steam loco offered for Lionel HO, was a Riverossi 2-8-0. I believe it was a tender drive if I remember correctly. No way to identify if was from Lionel or Riverossi, unless you find one still in the Lionel box.

Chuck Sartor posted:

The first steam loco offered for Lionel HO, was a Riverossi 2-8-0. I believe it was a tender drive if I remember correctly. No way to identify if was from Lionel or Riverossi, unless you find one still in the Lionel box.

That was the puzzle on those.  In some cases, Lionel had Rivarossi make road names that Rivarossi was not making for AHM, which could be one indicator.

I all ways wondered why Lionel was going to make OO it a European gauge (to my knowledge) like hornby. But they were offering American locomotives like the husdson. What were they thinking?!?

The Lionel 70's era SP GS-4 loco LOOKED great but was a little on the noisy side and had a 'pancake' type motor that was pretty weak.  It would pull 3-4 Athearn SL cars on level but not much more. I still have mine and it still runs so that says something for it.  And parts of it live on today at Bachmann. 

southern Railfan posted:

I all was wondered why Lionel was going to make OO it a European gauge (to my knowledge) like hornby. But they were offering American locomotives like the husdson. What were they thinking?!?

Actually, the American OO was different than the European OO.  European OO will run on HO track, but is slightly smaller in size (if you put a Hornby OO loco or car next to a Lima-made version in HO, you'll spot it right away).

The American OO was slightly wider, I think, than HO.  European OO is fully compatible with HO, but you couldn't run the 2-rail Lionel (or Scale-Craft, etc) OO on HO.

Good morning, my Mother bought a Lionel HO set for my Dad in 1961.

It had two Santa FE War Bonnet F units, one unit was power the other unit was a dummy.

It also had a poultry car that had back lighting, a car with Automobiles on it and a  wreck crane with a crane tender caboose.

The F unit I think had a chain drive and thats what failed. He bought a steam engine to replace these F units and I believe it was a Santa Fe Athern Engine.

He had a Styrofoam layout possibly produced by LifeLike  that had the track a grade and some basic scenery on it. The track would go up and over itself and then travel under itself thru a tunnel.

The styrofoam layout is long gone but my Dad still has the HO set including the Santa Fe F units in the original box which is in excellent shape.

All the cars that came with that set have the original boxes also which are also in good shape.

As a kid remember we were not allowed to run the train until my Dad came home.He would be so tired from working outside in the cold the last thing he wanted to do was mess with a HO train.

Everything was always good until there was a derailment and that was the end of the train operating for that evening or you would be watching the train and ask him a question and he would be sound a sleep.

Gee the things you remember !!!!!

Eddie Marra posted:

southern Railfan posted:

I all was wondered why Lionel was going to make OO it a European gauge (to my knowledge) like hornby. But they were offering American locomotives like the husdson. What were they thinking?!?

Actually, the American OO was different than the European OO.  European OO will run on HO track, but is slightly smaller in size (if you put a Hornby OO loco or car next to a Lima-made version in HO, you'll spot it right away).

The American OO was slightly wider, I think, than HO.  European OO is fully compatible with HO, but you couldn't run the 2-rail Lionel (or Scale-Craft, etc) OO on HO.

There are two versions of OO.  The one most people are familiar with is English OO, most often associated with Hornby trains.  This is 1/76 scale trains running on 16.5mm (HO) gauge track.

The other OO developed in the 1930's.  Several companies, including Lionel, made 1/76 scale trains which ran on 18mm track (correct gauge for 1/76 scale).  I recall an article in Model Railroader back in the 1970's about a man who modeled in OO scale.

Stuart

I had a Lionel 2 rail (No.004?) Hudson freight set in 00 gauge. These pieces were beautiful - especially the locomotive that was much more 'massive' and heavy appearing as well as highly detailed than the Rivarossi and probably my current BLI Hudson. That 00 Hudson was a real jewel!

About a year or so ago, I bought a Lionel #0045 Gateman to use on my layout instead of the #45/145 with the gigantic figure. The H0 version actually looks pretty good with 0 gauge. Just my opinion.

I don't remember Lionel HO. It must have been before my time.

I to had a large collection of Lionel HO.  I helped with the Greenberg Price Guide 1957 to 1966 (out of print). Many items from my collection were photographed for the Guide.  1957 the trains were made by Rivarossi ,1958 they were made by Atheran. In 1959 Lionel purchased the Hobby Line Dies and started manufacturing the HO line.

Do I still have my Lionel HO. No I sold my collection in 1990 and bought a MG.

When I want to see my Lionel HO I look at the Greenberg Price Guide.

Stuart posted:

Eddie Marra posted:

southern Railfan posted:

I all was wondered why Lionel was going to make OO it a European gauge (to my knowledge) like hornby. But they were offering American locomotives like the husdson. What were they thinking?!?

Actually, the American OO was different than the European OO.  European OO will run on HO track, but is slightly smaller in size (if you put a Hornby OO loco or car next to a Lima-made version in HO, you'll spot it right away).

The American OO was slightly wider, I think, than HO.  European OO is fully compatible with HO, but you couldn't run the 2-rail Lionel (or Scale-Craft, etc) OO on HO.

There are two versions of OO.  The one most people are familiar with is English OO, most often associated with Hornby trains.  This is 1/76 scale trains running on 16.5mm (HO) gauge track.

The other OO developed in the 1930's.  Several companies, including Lionel, made 1/76 scale trains which ran on 18mm track (correct gauge for 1/76 scale).  I recall an article in Model Railroader back in the 1970's about a man who modeled in OO scale.

Stuart

 

I saw a Lionel HO Freedom Train GS4 for sale recently, but it was pretty far gone. The Lionel HO always seemed to be a late-to-the party afterthought, wouldn't you say?

I remember the Model Railroader articles on the small group of American OO-ers. There was Temple Nieter in Illinois and a Mr. Bourassa in Montreal I think, plus the RMC article on Ed Costello. The British adjustment to their OO/HO hybrid scale was EM gauge  (18 mm), closer to the American OO 3/4"  gauge but no cigar. The retired army gent that got me into model railroads had an EM gauge layout, 1/76 scale/4mm = 1 ft.

Here's a site on American OO, handy for identificatin' - I mean this stuff could be mistaken for HO at first glance, especially with my eyes.....  http://americanoo.blogspot.ca/

I only heard of Lionel HO being made in the late fifties or early sixties. I didn't know they made any later. I came across an HO GP7/9 by Lionel at a small road side antique shop not far from here back in the mid-nineties. It is gold and marked for B&O 50th?? anniversary. I bought it because I thought it was uncommon. It ran poorly. I disassembled it to see if I could get it to run better. I ended up putting it in a box, where it still awaits it's fate. I can see why Lionel didn't stay in the HO game for long based on the way mine is built and ran. It is pretty much trainset junk IMO. Even considering the era it was made in, I expected better.

I got curious and found this: