Duluth Missabe and Iron Range artifacts, whistles

That’s an interesting story, I hope you find the answers you’re looking for.  

@PRR 5841 posted:

That’s an interesting story, I hope you find the answers you’re looking for.  

Yes, so do I. So far not yours is the only reply. But it was worth a try.

You might try asking at the forum below.  Somebody there might have some insight.  

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=1

There are also a few steam whistle collectors pages on Facebook that might be able to help you.  I don't follow any of them though, so I can't comment as to the quality of the help you might receive there.

@Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

Years ago, 1969 to be exact, I was 18, and bought my first real steam whistle. A Great Northern 5-chime off of an 0-8-0, #818. I bought the whistle from a fellow out in North Adams, Mass. Ernest Konopka. At that time he also had three DM&IR whistles from Yellowstones #220; 226 and 232. Since I am looking for a Missabe Yellowstone  whistle, I have always wondered where these whistles went after Mr. Konopka died. Is there anyone out there who might have any knowledge of these whistles as to where they are today??

Just to be clear, the provenance of those whistles may be from DM&IR Yellowstones  #220, 226 and 232, but they are not DM&IR whistles per se. They are Hancock step-top long-bell 3 chime whistles, of which hundreds appeared on locomotives from scores of roads, especially late in the steam era. As one wag once put it: "At least a hundred "Big Boy" whistles (Hancock step-top long-bell 3 chimes) have been offered for sale, all claimed to have come from the original 25 locomotives. There were 139 PRR GG-1s, each having 2 Leslie Typhon A-200-156 air horns.  The A-200-156 was the most ubiquitous horn in the late steam-early diesel era. Hundreds upon hundreds were produced. Yet nearly every one ever offered for sale is claimed to be an original GG1 horn."

@Nick Chillianis posted:

Just to be clear, the provenance of those whistles may be from DM&IR Yellowstones  #220, 226 and 232, but they are not DM&IR whistles per se. They are Hancock step-top long-bell 3 chime whistles, of which hundreds appeared on locomotives from scores of roads, especially late in the steam era. As one wag once put it: "At least a hundred "Big Boy" whistles (Hancock step-top long-bell 3 chimes) have been offered for sale, all claimed to have come from the original 25 locomotives. There were 139 PRR GG-1s, each having 2 Leslie Typhon A-200-156 air horns.  The A-200-156 was the most ubiquitous horn in the late steam-early diesel era. Hundreds upon hundreds were produced. Yet nearly every one ever offered for sale is claimed to be an original GG1 horn."

I agree with you that these Hancocks were used by many, like any manufacturer of whistles.  As for my situation, those whistles depicted had come off those Yellowstones. Unfortunately I spoke too soon, for as we know there are hundreds of them, and I should have waited to see what came forth before I blabbed the whistle's engine numbers!  But I will eventually find a reputable account for one. No matter what, I still would like to know where his whistles went. GN whistles are the same as is any whistle, I have two of them. They are both alike. One I know what engine it came off of, while the other one I only know it is GN.  In this case though we know they are all GN, for in this case, these 5-chimes have the GN cast into them and part number. Like GN headlights, the GN cast them up. Thanks for your correct insights.

I have one, not sure if it was one of the three in the photo. Hancock whistles were quite common, however the DMIR Yellowstones had a different version, and that's how you can identify them, They had a Viloco integral valve and bowl, unlike a true Hancock which used there own valve. (Viloco also supplied a "whistle operator" that was a bolt on attatchment to fit Hancock valves, and many roads used it, Frisco, SP, to name a few.) I have the Viloco drawing curtesy Jeff Hosford, and the drawing shows their bowl/valve, but specifies the Hancock bell. The viloco setup even has their name cast in large letters around the edge of the area the plate sets into, and it is also stamped into the back of the plate. There are two 1/4 NPT holes to plumb in an air line, and I don't think DMIR used a lever, but they show the unusual shaped pull lever in the drawing as well with a Viloco part number. The lever has an external torsion return spring. I know of another three chime Viloco in Tennessee, It very well could have been one of those in the photo.

Not sure if the photos will ever show up or not, kinda cumbersome to use.

@locopilot750 posted:

I have one, not sure if it was one of the three in the photo. Hancock whistles were quite common, however the DMIR Yellowstones had a different version, and that's how you can identify them, They had a Viloco integral valve and bowl, unlike a true Hancock which used there own valve. (Viloco also supplied a "whistle operator" that was a bolt on attatchment to fit Hancock valves, and many roads used it, Frisco, SP, to name a few.) I have the Viloco drawing curtesy Jeff Hosford, and the drawing shows their bowl/valve, but specifies the Hancock bell. The viloco setup even has their name cast in large letters around the edge of the area the plate sets into, and it is also stamped into the back of the plate. There are two 1/4 NPT holes to plumb in an air line, and I don't think DMIR used a lever, but they show the unusual shaped pull lever in the drawing as well with a Viloco part number. The lever has an external torsion return spring. I know of another three chime Viloco in Tennessee, It very well could have been one of those in the photo.

Yes, you are correct. The DM&IR did NOT use a lever, but the air operate Viloco. Below the caqb window on the Yellowstones, on the engineer's side as well as the fireman's side, had a brass lever that you pushed down to activate the air operations of their whistles.

I would have thought they would have used a lever for back up in case the air valve malfunctioned, but the whistle I have shows no wear at all between the ears where the lever & pin went. They were probably supplied with a lever, they may have pitched them when the engines were built, or when delivered. I had someone at the Lake Superior railroad museum text me a few close up photos of their Yellowstone's whistle, and it is exactly the same whistle and valve.

Yes indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!

I might add the engine at the Lake Superior museum has the air lines going to the valve, but no lever, so that must be right, air only. These engines were operated at 240 psi, so the whistle would sound a little different than true Hancocks on other roads like UP, who used 300 psi on some engines, or close too it. The valve on this one is complicated compared to others I've had a apart, It's "balanced", meaning it has a small pilot valve that opens first, making the main valve easer to overcome steam pressure to blow. And, both large and small valves have double steel piston rings, something I've never seen on a whistle valve. Really a high quality valve in my opinion.

@Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

Yes, you are correct. The DM&IR did NOT use a lever, but the air operate Viloco. Below the caqb window on the Yellowstones, on the engineer's side as well as the fireman's side, had a brass lever that you pushed down to activate the air operations of their whistles.

Great looking whistle now to find one I can buy, just like it. Thanks. These replies have been great!!

A couple the museum in Duluth sent.

@locopilot750 posted:

A couple the museum in Duluth sent.

Those are great shots, I'll keep them. We have been going to Duluth every year for decades and visit the Museum often. Always wished I could get a good close up shot like that, but never knew how to get someone from the Museum to actually get up on #227 and do so. That was super of them to do that. Someday I may find one of them for sale.

Hey Jeff, Here's one we both missed, another three chime Hancock on a Viloco valve. It's the same as the DM&IR arrangement, but it looks like the ears have been removed, The whistle looks like it's in "as found" good used condition, problem is it sold at auction last year. If you could track it down, somehow,  it might be one of the three you mentioned when you first posted.

Step Top Steam Whistle | Farm Machinery & Implements  Antique Farm Machinery & Implements  | Online Auctions | Proxibid

@locopilot750 posted:

Hey Jeff, Here's one we both missed, another three chime Hancock on a Viloco valve. It's the same as the DM&IR arrangement, but it looks like the ears have been removed, The whistle looks like it's in "as found" good used condition, problem is it sold at auction last year. If you could track it down, somehow,  it might be one of the three you mentioned when you first posted.

Step Top Steam Whistle | Farm Machinery & Implements  Antique Farm Machinery & Implements  | Online Auctions | Proxibid

Well at least one person remembers my original post. Certainly looks like the whistle in question. Maybe some day I'll find one, there are probably plenty of them out there, but....