DZ-2500

The manual https://www.zstuffexpress.com/...bd0dd69ef5e97f61.pdf

You could use 22-24 gauge wire without concern. These are not drawing Amps of current.

That said, having used both types- I actually would recommend DZ-1000 VS 2500s given my experience with them.

The DZ-2500 is intentionally a slower switching machine. This might look more "scale" and I can understand why someone might think they want it- but the how it achieves that low speed is by the electronics tickling the tiny motor with pulses of current. This means that any extra friction or load- the switch motor may fail to move. In other words, they are relatively weak- and no increasing source voltage is NOT a fix. They use regulator internally and all you are doing by raising source voltage is more heat in that regulator.

If you connect up and desire the anti-derailing function- again these are slower switch motors and while the anti-derailing function is faster- it's not the same as instant and given where your sensing is and speed of the wheels- probably won't be effective at switching before derailment happens.

You are not even using the built in wired TMCC control function- you are using ASCs- so again not even using a built in function.

I am not trying in any way to bash the DZ-2500. Obviously it is designed for a purpose and has a lot of features. That said, experience and real world usage on multiple layouts- I found that now I much prefer the snap fast and strong operation of the DZ-1000.

As with any internet advice YMMV.

Bash away Vernon!   I use the DZ-2500's, and if I had it to do again, I'd go for the Tortoise switch machines!  I'm not at all happy with the reliability of the DZ-2500's.

On one point I'll disagree.  The non-derailing is more than fast enough to switch before a train comes through, I've run stuff around at 90 scale MPH and the non-derailing is always fast enough.  The problem with the non-derailing is a short sensing rail, sometimes the first set of wheels may not reliably trigger it.  For stuff on the mainline, I've added a short section of extra track for the non-derailing sensing to make sure the train gets detected.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Bash away Vernon!   I use the DZ-2500's, and if I had it to do again, I'd go for the Tortoise switch machines!  I'm not at all happy with the reliability of the DZ-2500's.

This makes me feel better that I decided to go with Tortoise for all the switches on the new layout. I miss the "instant" throw, but the reliability has been consistent.

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Thanks for the replies!

It looks like I'm stuck with using the DZ-2500! I have at least 15 of them.

Did someone allude to the fact that these can be used 'directly' with TMCC instead of the ASC ?

I posted some pics of what I have to deal with. There is a CAB-2, TPC-3000, TPC-3000 platinum, and some other device by Lionel  Which has another device attached.  If I remember correctly (from another post of mine), it is some sort of data driver for the DZ's.

Remember when I linked the DZ-2500 manual? Now would be an excellent time to review that. https://www.zstuffexpress.com/...bd0dd69ef5e97f61.pdf

@ZAK posted:

Did someone allude to the fact that these can be used 'directly' with TMCC instead of the ASC ?

Yes, you just need to run the serial data directly to them.  The DZ-2001 Data driver is what Z-Stuff uses to buffer the serial data stream for the DZ-2500's.

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OK Vern!, I did miss that in your previous post.

GRJohn, So the Data wires from the DZ-2001 just daisy chain from one 2500 to the next ?

Also, Can I use a Belden type cable?, or would that mess with the signal.

I used CAT5 Ethernet cable to wire all my DZ-2500 switch machines.  I have a punch-down distribution panel where all the switch wiring comes in, but daisy chaining it will work fine as well.  I drive all 30 switch machines using the DZ-2001 Data Wire Driver.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Bash away Vernon!   I use the DZ-2500's, and if I had it to do again, I'd go for the Tortoise switch machines!  I'm not at all happy with the reliability of the DZ-2500's.

Yeah, I've had reliability issues with my DZ-2500s, too.  The most frustrating issues have been with crossovers, where reliable switching of both turnouts can be hit-or-miss.  I daisy-chained my DZ-2500s on the left and right sides of my U-shaped layout, but have yet to connect the data driver and try TMCC control.  Hope to do so before sailboat launch prep begins in May.

Our modular club installed DZ-2500s a year ago and we are ripping them out due to poor reliability and replacing them all with DZ-1000s.  We used them primarily on crossovers.  They frequently require reprogramming to restore function, the red-green indicators get reversed, or they just plain fail. And on top of that, the documentation for the reprogramming procedure to put them in TMCC or DCS mode is faulty.

Bob

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Thanks GR John!

I never thought of using CAT 5. I might even have a 1/4 box of it in the garage.

@ZAK posted:

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Thanks GR John!

I never thought of using CAT 5. I might even have a 1/4 box of it in the garage.

The other bonus of the CAT5 is that I only needed 4 wires for the switch machines, so I have four spare wires coming from every switch machine location.  If I ever need access to wire something in that area, I don't have to pull any new wires.